cfbolz changed the topic of #pypy to: PyPy, the flexible snake (IRC logs: https://quodlibet.duckdns.org/irc/pypy/latest.log.html#irc-end ) | use cffi for calling C | if a pep adds a mere 25-30 [C-API] functions or so, it's a drop in the ocean (cough) - Armin
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<mattip> tumbleweed: thanks for looking into this. Is there more info somewhere about "pip devendoring"?
<mattip> it sounds like something that should be changed
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<cfbolz> mattip: sorry about the memfd breakage. Does it mean that our portable PyPy 3.8 can never expose memfd_create?
<mattip> hmm
<mattip> manylinux2010 is based on CenOS 6, which went EOL 3 months ago
<mattip> so we could move to manylinux2014, based on CentOS 7, which will EOL in 2024, and is based on glibc 2.17
<mattip> but we need 2.27, which is not even part of the next manylinux standard: manylinux_2_24
<mattip> ubuntu 18.04 has 2.27
<cfbolz> mattip: I wonder whether we should implement it using ctypes in app level
<cfbolz> And check whether the symbol is there
<mattip> is it really that important an interface?
<cfbolz> Yeah, maybe not
<cfbolz> Maybe enough to have it in 5 years
<mattip> or just use conda's builds and not ours
<cfbolz> Heh
<mattip> .. which doesn't have it, even on CPython 3.9
<mattip> :(
<mattip> so if conda is happy to leave it out, I think we can too
<cfbolz> Yeah
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<cfbolz> mattip: OK, fixed on my laptop, will push later
<mattip> cool
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<Dejan> CentOS is dead, long live Rocky Linux!!
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<cfbolz> mattip: eh, thanks for paying attention
* cfbolz is not getting enough sleep
<mattip> it is easier to review smaller changes, I wish I could look over the bigger ones as carefully
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<exarkun> mattip: puny human brains capable of managing so little complexity
<cfbolz> mattip: the tornado thing found a real JIT problem :-(
<mattip> levels of complexity: (0) bug (1) path to solution is clear, but it needs a branch (2) arigo needed (3) masters student needed (4) worthy of a paper
<cfbolz> 1-2
<antocuni> "level of complexity: arigo needed" :)
<Dejan> :D
<cfbolz> Armin is worth more than a master student though
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<mattip> :)
<mattip> my ranking is due to my perception of difficulty of getting someone to do the work
<cfbolz> Ah
<cfbolz> Getting Master students to do work is not to hard. It's finding them in the first place that is the problem
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<antocuni> it might be easier to write a paper than finding master students, then 😅
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<larstiq> is the problem finding interested students, good ones, both?
<cfbolz> interested + some prior knowledge of runtimey stuff
<larstiq> are there events introducing the research groups to the students? I fondly remember when those started up at my faculty
<cfbolz> larstiq: here it's more that your lectures are used to recruit students
<cfbolz> but I don't give master-level ones atm, so that's the problem right there
<larstiq> from what I've observed it helps to get started when they're bachelor students
<larstiq> though the Finnish and Dutch systems I've seen were different in how much could be offered to them
<cfbolz> sure, but I am not giving bachelor lectures either ;-)
<cfbolz> only teaching non-majors atm
<larstiq> ah
<larstiq> the Dutch system seemed more rigid, having to do courses in a particular order and bachelor students not expected/encouraged to dip their feet in research
<cfbolz> sort of similar here. the first couple of semesters are relatively rigid
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<larstiq> cfbolz: that's a shame :/
<cfbolz> I don't know, it makes some sense. some basic info is needed, and from the lecturer pov it's much easier if you know what you can assume the student's have already taken
<larstiq> that part makes sense, but I prefer still allowing students to take courses they might lack the qualifications for. Ime the ones that stick work on catching up. It can be a struggle but that's instructive too
<cfbolz> sure
<cfbolz> that's always up to the instructor
<cfbolz> (here, I mean)
<larstiq> right
<larstiq> I've also experienced the "the system will not allow you to enroll, if you're not enrolled you can't attend the course"
<larstiq> cfbolz: are the non-majors more enthusiastic because they specifically chose this (minor?), or less because it's mandatory but not seen as core to them?
<larstiq> and if I'm asking too many questions, I can go to bed :)
<cfbolz> no worries ;-)
<cfbolz> larstiq: they are very enthusiastic, because it's completely optional for them
<cfbolz> but they don't write cs theses by definition
<larstiq> do they have options to do smaller projects, independent study with a supervisor?
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<cfbolz> larstiq: yeah. but they won't do compilers, usually something related to their minor
<cfbolz> major
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<bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-64/builds/8593 [Ronan: force build, hpy]
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<bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-64/builds/8593 [Ronan: force build, hpy]
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