cfbolz changed the topic of #pypy to: PyPy, the flexible snake (IRC logs: https://quodlibet.duckdns.org/irc/pypy/latest.log.html#irc-end ) | use cffi for calling C | if a pep adds a mere 25-30 [C-API] functions or so, it's a drop in the ocean (cough) - Armin
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<nulano> mattip, sure. I was going to ping you here about it but forgot...
<nulano> I forgot to restart my IRC client when rebooting my laptop last week and only noticed the release notes messages yesterday :/
<nulano> I've now set it to autorun on startup
<nulano> btw I saw you referred to me as "they", "he" is fine also :)
<mattip> :)
* cfbolz waves
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<Dejan> So are we close to a new release? :)
<cfbolz> Getting there
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<mattip> github has some nice features. When you click on "New Issue" in https://github.com/pypy/pypy.org/issues,
<mattip> it goes to https://github.com/pypy/pypy.org/issues/new/choose (note the "choose" on the end)
<mattip> which can be formatted via a .github/ISSUE_TEMPLATE/config.yml file
<mattip> you can still open a new issue without the templating at https://github.com/pypy/pypy.org/issues/new/ (without the choose)
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<cfbolz> mattip: very cool
<cfbolz> I'm just really impressed, I tried (via a twitter convo) a python project with lots of dependencies and C-extensions on pypy, and it just works: https://github.com/rsms/inter/
<Dejan> I like that typeface
<cfbolz> original author of fonttools, which it uses to build, is guido's brother Just ;-)
<Dejan> I used to work as graphics designer in period between 92 and 96 - it provided a good source of income while i was at uni
<cfbolz> nice
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<mattip> cfbolz: but the speed ...
<YannickJadoul> Hi all. I'm trying out PyPy 7.3.4rc1 in cibuildwheel, for the interested: https://github.com/joerick/cibuildwheel/pull/629
<YannickJadoul> Quick question: there's no win32 anymore? PyPy won't provide both 32-bit as well as 64, just like CPython still seems to do?
<mattip> hmm. Just because we can, should we? It is a small maintenance burden
<YannickJadoul> Ah, no, not saying that. Just curious, if the switch will be total
<YannickJadoul> Important to update our docs and think about releases and version numbers, etc
<mattip> unless there is a user who says otherwise: yes, the switch will be total
<YannickJadoul> OK, thanks!
<YannickJadoul> Another small thing. When building a new manylinux docker image, I noticed there's a new `python` symlink in `bin/` of the tarballs
<YannickJadoul> That's OK, but there's also a `python.` symlink, which seems unwanted?
<YannickJadoul> I tried searching for the commit where that happened, but not sure where to look in the repo; is this intentional?
<cfbolz> I'm trying n
<cfbolz> ow
<cfbolz> YannickJadoul: oops that wasn't meant for you, but for mattip's speed question above
<mattip> a symlink with a "." at the end of "python." ? No, that is unwanted. Maybe due to lines 252-256 in pypy/tool/release/package.py,
<mattip> in py3.7?
<mattip> there should be pypy, pypy3.7, python python3.7, python3
<mattip> and the real pypy3
<mattip> yes, it seems the "python3" symlink turned into "python." Good catch
<mattip> ahh, got it, thanks
<cfbolz> mattip: seems a tiny bit faster than CPython
<Dejan> why are apps heavily based on numpy/pytables significantly slower than CPython?
<cfbolz> Dejan: because we emulate the CPython C-extension API. and that emulation has some overhead
<Dejan> Ah
<mattip> cfbolz: cool
<cfbolz> Dejan: there's a long term plan how to do better
<cfbolz> Dejan: but it's of the "in five years" variety
<Dejan> sure, thanks :)
<mattip> heh, nice URL :)
<cfbolz> ;-)
<cfbolz> maybe we can get Dejan to make a better logo :-P
<Dejan> I wish I had time to play with hpy from my D proggies
<Dejan> soon I hope...
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<Dejan> cfbolz, does hpy provide the same C API as CPython?
<cfbolz> nope
<cfbolz> hence 5 years ;-)
<Dejan> i get it
<Dejan> :D
<Dejan> but if i target PyPy I could just simply use hpy, right?
<Dejan> PyPy-only I mean
<cfbolz> Dejan: no, it's not pypy only!
<cfbolz> works with cpython too
<cfbolz> that's kind of the point, otherwise people would have to maintain two different extensions
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<YannickJadoul> mattip: Thanks! I had been looking at the wrong branch, that's why I couldn't find it... :-|
<mattip> :)
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<YannickJadoul> Another issue, it seems
<YannickJadoul> After including Python.h, the builds still can't find `PyLong_FromLong`
<mattip> which pypy version?
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<mattip> is it not finding it in the compilation or in the linking? If the latter, it means you are using the wrong headers, the symbols exported from libpypy is PyPyLong_FromLong
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<YannickJadoul> mattip: During compilation
<YannickJadoul> PyPy 7.3.4rc1, 2.7
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<YannickJadoul> There's almost nothing in `include/`
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<YannickJadoul> And `Python.h` is very empty
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<YannickJadoul> (well, not very; reasonably)
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<YannickJadoul> (did I say Windows?; it is 2.7 on Windows)
* mattip checking
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<mattip> ok, I see what you mean. Something is off with the windows zip
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<mattip> windows 3.7 is fine, it is just the 2.7 zipfile
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<YannickJadoul> 3.7 seems fine, though, if I checked correctly
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<YannickJadoul> Ah, 1 second too late
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<mattip> well of course the win64 build for pypy2.7 doesn't have headers, cpyext is not enabled on it
<bbot2_> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-64/builds/156 [mattip: force build, win64-cpyext-default]
<bbot2_> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-win-x86-64/builds/232 [mattip: force build, win64-cpyext-default]
<bbot2_> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-64/builds/156 [mattip: force build, win64-cpyext-default]
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<bbot2_> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-win-x86-64/builds/232 [mattip: force build, win64-cpyext-default]
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