<kyak> viric: (benchmark) don't know.. maybe need to ask in mailing lists, someone should remember
<viric> kyak: do you know if openwrt brings the SIMD mplayer?
<kyak> don't see it in packages
<qi-bot> [commit] kyak: config.debug: the minimal .config with debugging capabilities http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/1c5d309
<viric> larsc: does oprofile work fine on the nanonote?
<viric> kyak: ok. I wonder if someone is building it nowadays.
<viric> I even don't know what parts there were 'accelerated'
<kyak> are you talking about SIMD player?
<kyak> i don't know what SIMD is :)
<wolfspraul> kyak: config.debug could also include logging daemons set to 'debug' logging
<kyak> mplayer is ported, however
<kyak> wolfspraul: good idea! however, now we have those daemons disabled in /etc/init.d/boot :)
<kyak> wolfspraul: it's just some things depend on things other than .config.. maybe their own config files
<kyak> so maybe let the user who is into debugging make this decisions by his own?
<viric> kyak: Single Instruction Multiple Data. MXU instructions, on xburst, I think.
<kyak> viric: have no idea.. openwrt mplayer is not patched, so it might not take advantage of xburst specifics
<kyak> i've seen patched maplyer from ingenic
<viric> kyak:
<kyak> but it's based on some older version
<viric> Yes, I talk about that
<viric> So there is noone in the nanonote using a 'fast' mplayer? Also jlime uses only the upstream?
<kyak> i'm not suffering of some lack of performance, to tell the truth :)
<kyak> don't know about jlime
<kyak> and mplayer in openwrt is just a standart mplayer
<viric> can you play theora videos?
<kyak> as it goes from mplayer developers
<kyak> not tried playing theora videos
<kyak> thereis a weird bug though
<kyak> both in openwrt and jlime
<kyak> when you fast forward several times in a row, thereis a sqeeqy sound from speaker
<kyak> and it won't stop
<kyak> until you reboot
<kyak> perhaps you will find it yourself
<viric> oh
<viric> In fact, the mplayer I built had a very bad performance.
<kyak> it depends on used codecs a lot
<kyak> which do you use?
<kyak> and the video resolution, of course
<kyak> saying simplier, what;s your command line?
<kyak> to encode and to play videos
<viric> Maybe I chose it to use floating point, and I did not notice.
<kyak> this approch works pretty well here
<viric> ah, I took an h264 video at 640x480 :)
<viric> kyak: I'll check. thank you"
<kyak> oh, good for you then
<viric> hehe
<kyak> even my laptop is not capable playing such videos :)
<viric> what codecs you advise?
<kyak> does your kernel has floating point emulation?
<viric> can it do xvid?
<viric> Even if it has, I don't want to use it
<viric> I don't remember if I disabled it finally
<kyak> i think xvid should be fine
<kyak> i convert it to mpeg to watch on ben
<viric> mpeg2?
<kyak> vcodec=mpeg1video
<kyak> just have a look at commnd line i shown you
<kyak> mplayer has some floating point computations
<kyak> i've seen it fixed in ingenic's patch
<viric> kernel emulation would be very bad...
<viric> My toolchain builds always for soft-float, so it should never end up using the kernel emulation
<kyak> however, i don't think this causes some real overhead
<kyak> btw, you can try playing your video with -nosound
<kyak> and then with -vo null
<viric> and for sound, what do you use?
<kyak> then you can see if it is video or audio that's causing this performance droppage
<viric> for the audio track
<kyak> viric: haven't you had a look at the link i gave you? ;)
<viric> link?
<viric> AH
<viric> will read.
<viric> :)
<kyak> however, i then switched to that:
<viric> mp2 audio, mpeg1 video? now I understand why you don't experience performance problems with the upstream mplayer :)
<viric> btw, that mplayer command line is to me like a 'blob' is to free software ;)
<kyak> can't find the command line, switched to liblame
<kyak> viric: i don't really care if it's "free" or "not free" when it comes to my own convenience
<viric> hehe
<kyak> btw, that's why mplayer depends on BUILD_PATENTED
<kyak> it's in my todo list to split it to free and patented :)
<viric> have you tried the vp8?
<viric> They have specific assembly for arm, at least
<kyak> no, what's that?
<viric> I don't know if for mips
<viric> the video codec patent free for webm
<viric> bsd licensed
<kyak> is it supported by maplyer?
<kyak> viric: sorry, got to go now.. thanks for you hint. might want to have a look later...
<viric> kyak: vlc plays it fine :) and ffmpeg can use it fine
<viric> kyak: I don't remember playing it in mplayer though
<viric> maybe vlc would work better than mplayer
<bartbes> hmm
<bartbes> is the entirety of gtk/glib running on the ben?
<kristianpaul> hmm
<kristianpaul> in wich os?
<bartbes> owrt
<kristianpaul> i think you can compile owrt with gtk support too
<kristianpaul> it was a blog entry from mirko i think
<kristianpaul> long time ago
<bartbes> I know there's gtk support
<bartbes> one of the default apps uses gtk
<bartbes> stardict iirc
<bartbes> yeah, looks gtk-y
<bartbes> I guess I could just try
<bartbes> but it'd be crappy if it fails
<bartbes> (as I'm going to write a program)
<kristianpaul> in gtk?
<bartbes> yes
<kristianpaul> wht not SDL? :)
<bartbes> because.. I'm going for a GUI, not anything needing real graphics
<kristianpaul> ah ok
<kyak> wow.. a minimal system with debug and without stripping is > 700 Mb
<kyak> to the hell with that debug idea
<kyak> oh, maybe this is when qemu is coming handy
<wolfspraul> kyak: 700 mb image?
<wolfspraul> maybe still makes sense via the ImageBuilder, so people don't have to rebuild it all, just add a package they want to debug...
<kyak> my bad, this image has stardict.. pretty many dependencies
<viric> kyak: 700mb image? it's not that bad
<kyak> trying to do some debuggin inside the qemu..
<kyak> gdb says utils.c:904: internal-error: virtual memory exhausted: can't allocate 13263733 bytes.
<wpwrak_> that's things like libsomething-dbg ?
<viric> kyak: give memory to qemu
<kyak> of course there is enough memory
<viric> ah :)
<kyak> so it's strange..
<viric> doesn't anyone here have a more powerful mips than the nanonote?
<viric> I think I could run the nanonote programs in a chroot in a Fuloong MiniPC
<kyak> you? :)
<viric> :)
<viric> speed is not the problem :)
<kyak> i'll try to debug something else
<kyak> maybe stardict is too damn tricky
<viric> kyak: try gdbserver, and debug on the PC
<kyak> a very good idea
<kyak> should i run gdbserver on my PC?
<viric> no
<viric> gdb in your PC, gdbserver in the nanonote
<viric> or qemu
<kyak> ah, ok.. will have to read about that
<viric> you need a gdb that can understand mips though
<viric> a 'cross-gdb'
<kyak> yes, such is avaialble
<kyak> in a toolchain
<viric> you can use the network
<kyak> Starting program: /bin/ls
<kyak> vfork: Cannot allocate memory.
<viric> you start a gdbserver in one side... and in the cross-gdb in the pc you run "target remote xx.xx.xx.xx:1234" whatever ip:port there.
<kyak> it's really-really strange
<viric> maybe that gdb is not very well built
<kyak> gdb is not able to debug even simpliest apps
<viric> I'll try with mine...
<kyak> yes, maybe
<kyak> will try with gdbserver
<rafa> viric: I have ran gdb in nanonote without problems
<viric> rafa: good to know! :)
<lunavorax> Hi everyone !
<lunavorax> I wanted to ask a software question about the Ben Nanonote
<bartbes> lunavorax: ask away
<bartbes> we won't know if anyone can answer it before it has been posed
<lunavorax> What display server (or windows manager, I have troubles figuring out the good word) is used on the Ben Nanonote instead of X.org (or is it X11 ? can't figure out)
<bartbes> none
<bartbes> the openwrt kernel uses direct framebuffer access
<lunavorax> So how does the display work ?
<lunavorax> Ok
<bartbes> jlime has an X server
<lunavorax> openwrt kernel = regular gnu/linux kernel right ?
<bartbes> the one that comes preinstalled and the official qi-hardware one, yes
<bartbes> why do you ask, if I may?
<lunavorax> Well I was just wondering how it was working
<lunavorax> I started wondering with something unrealated in fact
<lunavorax> The Wayland project
<bartbes> well, good thing a lot of toolkits have fb support
<lunavorax> Yeah
<bartbes> oh heh, I doubt we'll see the needed hardware acceleration
<lunavorax> Also I saw a guy made one here "because X11 sucks" on github
<lunavorax> No no I wasn't talking about that
<lunavorax> It's just that it started my question about how all this stuff was working
<lunavorax> Also I already knew that X11 was slow and I was "at last a descent replacment"
<bartbes> well display server architecture is an interesting topic
<bartbes> and I love it how they said they weren't going to care about network transparency so much, and then specifically the shitstorm of scared users saying "but I need networked displays!"
<bartbes> not realizing that the wayland guys still want that possibility
<lunavorax> (also I was wondering when I saw that some libraries like Allegro could make softwares that doesn't need X to run
<bartbes> ah well
<bartbes> well, afaik there are only a few real options for rendering
<lunavorax> Yeah I actually didn't understood what network transparency (in fact all the network stuff on a local display server concept)
<bartbes> framebuffers are quite direct
<bartbes> there's X
<bartbes> there's OpenGL
<bartbes> and then now there's wayland, but afaik it runs on top of gl
<lunavorax> Yeah
<lunavorax> You think it's a default ?
<bartbes> well, you see, X' network transparency is kind of weird
<bartbes> you see
<bartbes> instead of using direct calls
<bartbes> or even unix sockets
<bartbes> or named pipes
<bartbes> you use full-blown network sockets
<bartbes> *always*
<bartbes> which is inefficient
<lunavorax> Oh wait OpenGL
<lunavorax> Does that means that when I use Compiz, it doesn't use X anymore ?
<wpwrak_> bartbes: (always) unless you use SHM
<bartbes> shm?
<bartbes> lunavorax: it does use X
<bartbes> ;)
<lunavorax> Haha ok
<bartbes> but iirc the X server needs GL extensions
<viric> bartbes: X uses unix sockets locally
<bartbes> oh right
<bartbes> but still, sockets
<wpwrak_> bartbes: shared memory. x has a number of ways for using more efficient paths when available.
<bartbes> I mean, I didn't spend too much time looking into this stuff
<viric> bartbes: you have a strong opinion though ;)
<bartbes> I just read tiny bits of info spread over time, then combined that
<wpwrak_> viric: the less you know, the easier it is to hold a strong belief ;-)
<bartbes> wpwrak_: that is not true
<bartbes> I mean, I said I read tiny bits
<bartbes> but I read a lot of them
<bartbes> :P
<bartbes> I mean, in all this time I have absorbed quite a bit of information
<bartbes> and it helps me not be a sheep
<viric> :)
<bartbes> it's one of the reasons I'm not shouting "I need  network transparency, X rules, wayland sucks, and canonical sucks"
<viric> It feels comfortable that, most software we have today is built on X instead of something else that may not be easily used through a network
<viric> Maybe it could be better, and new software is going to show that... but luckily we don't have something worse :)
<bartbes> hmm
<bartbes> the thing is
<bartbes> it makes no diff in the programs themselves
<bartbes> it's probably a small diff in the toolkit (for the networking, of course X support is quite a bit more complicated)
<wpwrak_> bartbes: yeah, my comment was a little nasty, i admit :)
<bartbes> and that is the goal of the transparency
<bartbes> a program doesn't need to have a clue
<viric> well, a program for X does not have to have a lot of clue.
<viric> It could be better, sure.
<bartbes> tbh there are lots of programs that don't have a clue
<bartbes> same goes for programmers
<bartbes> but that is something entirely unrelated :P
<viric> :)
<viric> I never wrote a program dealing with the X libs directly...
<viric> The kind of abstraction you may want is that given by Qt or similar. Isn't it?
<wpwrak_> yup. or Gtk, SDL, ...
<wpwrak_> they may draw some concepts from X, e.g., color allocation, but they wrap them into their own style and mechanisms
<bartbes> SDL is very nice
<bartbes> it can do fb, X, svgalib and more
<bartbes> transparent to the program
<bartbes> anyway, I did some xlib
<bartbes> not to put something on the screen, but I needed the Xlib features
<viric> isn't xcb any better?
<bartbes> no idea
<bartbes> I just know it had the direct access I needed
<rafa> I have been tempted to write a new GUI for freerunner using just C + fb and sdl, because after some tests it is the fatest thing I have seen :).. but I dream with a lot of things I will be doing.. And then, at the end of the year, I realize that I just did two or three things of that 200 items list I often dream ;-))
<viric> X is very bad at caching application buffers though
<wpwrak_> rafa: (3/200) a common problem ;)
<bartbes> viric: caching?
<bartbes> you mean what wayland is trying to solve (amongst other problems) by letting the application tell the server what to redraw when?
<viric> bartbes: so any redraw needed in the server goes to the client.
<rafa> wpwrak_: it gets worst because the 200 items number increases a lot every year.. and the items done does not so fast than total items todo :D
<viric> bartbes: I'm not following wayland
<wpwrak_> rafa: ah, exponential growth. now that is bad :)
<bartbes> wpwrak_: you should clear the list sometime ;)
<wpwrak_> viric: are redraws really that big a problem ? and X11 should still have server-side backing store. http://www.ess.co.at/FAQ/faq001.html
<viric> server-side backing store? I never saw it
<viric> ohh nice option
<viric> wpwrak_: but that does not work as cache, right? I mean that the option will change what the user sees, but not the network usage.
<wpwrak_> as far as i understand it, it does work as a sever-side cache
<viric> why isn't "backingstore" a default?
<viric> it may have a counterpart other than 'it takes more memory'
<wpwrak_> if you're local and the content isn't particularly hard to recreate, redraws may be good enough. in fact, i think redraws may be relatively infrequent anyway.
<viric> they happen on window resizing, or a window getting in front of another
<wpwrak_> i think the tendency nowadays is a "redraw from model" pipe anyway
<wpwrak_> yes, and how often do you resize/restack windows, compared to other operations ? :)
<wpwrak_> restacking could be a problem if don't have enough screen space, though.
<wpwrak_> ah, and when you resize, you probably want to redraw anyway
<viric> wpwrak_: I resize often, using a tiling window manager :)
<wpwrak_> particularly if you follow the "redraw from model" paradigm
<wpwrak_> urgh :)
<viric> wpwrak_: also causes a redraw the switching of 'desktops'
<viric> or however you call it.
<viric> Full screens of organized windows.
<wpwrak_> yeah, switching desktops is something i do a lot, too
<viric> do you have that option switched on, for caching?
<wpwrak_> ah, the other one is save-under. e.g., when you pop up a window on top of another, the occluded window gets saved
<wpwrak_> no, neither of them
<wpwrak_> i'm not sure they would accelerate what i'm doing much. most things are fast anyway ;-)
<viric> :)
<viric> you helped me a lot letting me know the options are there.
<viric> When I'll experience X11 network speed troubles, I may remember them
<viric> kyak: gdb works here, I think
<kristianpaul> (the less you know, the easier it is to hold a strong belief) That works almost everywhere
<kristianpaul> git can just tell me commit history for my current folder?
<kristianpaul> sie code generator?..
<kristianpaul> will be nice if carlos camargo once at week join irc and tell us what he is doing
<kristianpaul> or at least ping he here
<kristianpaul> thats the top !!
<kristianpaul> :S
<kristianpaul> what a mess :
<wpwrak_> ;-)
<kristianpaul> oh something is wrong with my local git, i'm tryin to commit to qi and is pushing to github? O_o
<kristianpaul> git is self hosted config isnt?
<kristianpaul> cause i reinstalled debian some weeks ago and dint backup nothing about git config (in general)
<kristianpaul> fatal: Path 'tools/adc/sofware/jz47xx_gpio.c' is in submodule 'tools/adc/sofware'
<kristianpaul> what that means "speaking git" ?
<qi-bot> [commit] Cristian Paul Peñaranda Rojas: created notes folder http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-gps-sdr/1c2e0de
<wpwrak_> kristianpaul: there's a ~/.gitconfig, e.g., with your name and email
<kristianpaul> dammit
<wpwrak_> not sure about the other things
<wpwrak_> (gitconfig) it's simple: [user]\n\tname = Your Name\n\temail = you@mail.foo\n
<wpwrak_> that's it :)
<kristianpaul> yes
<kristianpaul> no i said dammit cause i still getting "fatal: Path..."
<kristianpaul> and i just cloned the repo again and copied files in side
<wpwrak_> ah ... that sounds like more fun :) google ?
<kristianpaul> yes
<qi-bot> [commit] Cristian Paul Peñaranda Rojas: missing simple(stupid) code to initialize and read adc buffer http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-gps-sdr/351e1d5
<kristianpaul> solved
<wpwrak_> what was it ?
<kristianpaul> dont know i think related to cache
<kristianpaul> i just copied and pasted some commands
<wpwrak_> ;-))
<kristianpaul> btw about my problem with 8Mhz signaling i solved it, well was for sie initially but can be re-used in the ben
<kristianpaul> a SPI  to Parallel converter
<kristianpaul> is easy cause the signal is just 4 bit per sync
<kristianpaul> son ben actually can handle  2Mh IO
<kristianpaul> once it work on SIE i may try fit it on CPLD or just wire sie to ben
<kristianpaul> i was thinking to implemented a 2k buffer on FPGA, as the original adc in SIE (wich is SPI too) works
<kristianpaul> We need  a map with people timezones :)
<kristianpaul> wpwrak_: you remenber sdram speed of ben?
<kristianpaul> troughput**
<wpwrak_> hmm no, don't remember. it ought to be somewhere in the archive ;-)
<wpwrak_> (spi-par converter) congratulations !
<kristianpaul> nah not yet