<xiangfu>
kyak: I test compile package in SDK. package compile fine. I just don't know if the SDK can generate the rootfs.tar.gz/ubi ?
<xiangfu>
kyak: there is full rootfs in "OpenWrt-SDK-xburst-for-Linux-x86_64-gcc-4.3.3+cs_uClibc-0.9.30.1/staging_dir/target-mipsel_uClibc-0.9.30.1/root-xburst"
<xiangfu>
kyak: seems no makefile entry for generate rootfs.tar.gz/ubi. :(
<kyak>
xiangfu: i never really played with those.. i tried once with SDK but there were some errors
<wolfspraul>
seems even openwrt people don't know what the different tools are for
<wolfspraul>
that probably tells us something about the quality of those tools, unless we haven't found the people yet that stand behind them and use them themselves
<wolfspraul>
maybe you also ask on the openwrt devel list
<wolfspraul>
someone must know what these tools are for, and which one is the best maintained...
<xiangfu>
wolfspraul: yes. I have tried #openwrt in IRC. will send email to openwrt list.
<bartbes>
so, gforth guy?
<kristianpaul>
not me :)
<kristianpaul>
why you dont write to the list?
<bartbes>
I just want to show him a nice forth program I found
<bartbes>
ash: /usr/libexec/sftp-server: not found
<bartbes>
unable to initialise SFTP: could not connect
<bartbes>
I got that while trying scp
<bartbes>
ah, that's putty, apparently
<bartbes>
I had to use a switch
<zrafa>
nice harald words :(
<lekernel>
zrafa: ?
<zrafa>
lekernel: during 2008 harald suggested to use projects.openmoko.org and he said :
<zrafa>
"The other issue is one of 'reliability' and is one of the reasons why I
<zrafa>
personally don't host any of my projects at sourceforge or the like.  Who
<zrafa>
tells you that they will still provide this serviec tomorrow?  What if they
<zrafa>
change to a paid-for model?  Also, some of those sites use advertisement (which
<zrafa>
is extremely ugly).  Also, the big project hosting sites are creating
<zrafa>
single-points-of-failure, and we've already seen a massive security breach at
<zrafa>
sourceforge in the past.
<zrafa>
"
<zrafa>
lekernel: so I hosted a tiny project at projects.openmoko.org (well, just the web page of the project)
<zrafa>
lekernel: today, harald said:
<zrafa>
"Yes, it is related.  However, the reason for the downtime is the
<zrafa>
fact that nobody is maintaining the projects.openmoko.org installation
<zrafa>
anymore, and it is running a machine with such old OS + software that
<zrafa>
for simple security reasons we had to take it down.
<zrafa>
I wish there was a different choice, but we are out of options."
<zrafa>
lekernel: so projects.openmoko.org is down and I do not have access to my web page
<lekernel>
imo the main issue, especially with today's distributed version controls, is time wastage on trivial sysadmin tasks
<lekernel>
that's why github and the like are nice
<zrafa>
lekernel: now I would like to get that tiny web page mines and to upload to sourceforge at least
<zrafa>
like I was thinking to do from the beggining
<zrafa>
but no access. We will see
<lekernel>
better take the risk to have to spend 1 hour moving your repository in case github disappears (with an small probability) than to spend 7 hours right away setting up an equivalent (and in practice often inferior) service
<lekernel>
sourceforge sucks, use github
<zrafa>
The real problem is that nobody is maintaining the virtual machine of projects.openmoko.org it seems.
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: most other combinatorial functions should work too !!
<wpwrak>
zrafa: maybe ask roh. i'm sure he has as backup lying around somewhere.
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: what does "work" mean ? can be parsed ? or can be synthesized ? :)
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: synthetized then p&r by ngbuild (xilinx tool)
<wpwrak>
ah, one more missing link then
<kristianpaul>
step by step :-)
<kristianpaul>
well i'm just repliny from what i read in mm channel :-)
<kristianpaul>
actually i want push you get a M1 as well :-)
<kristianpaul>
if you dont already
<wpwrak>
nope, don't have one so far
<kristianpaul>
The example is made to be be just make upload to the board :)
<kristianpaul>
damn, great things are coming this year :-)
<kristianpaul>
he !
<kristianpaul>
hey*
<kristianpaul>
seems i got my sync register finally to work
<kristianpaul>
lets see
<kristianpaul>
hmm i think is posible use llhdl with my avnet and /or sie board or CPLD... due p&r is still done by xilinx sofware..
<kristianpaul>
hmm
<kristianpaul>
this signal is connected to multiple drivers
<kristianpaul>
argg again..
<kristianpaul>
hmm it synthesise now
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: hi I just send one email to openwrt mailing list. try to understand the how to use ImageBuilder, SDK, toolchain, then we maybe can write a wiki page on how to use them.
<xiangfu>
we see how openwrt people reply :)
<kristianpaul>
cool !
<kristianpaul>
i relly believe in owrt simplicity, and SDK is  nice word ;-)
<kristianpaul>
ha it syncs, but now i have two sync indicators
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: Thanks !
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: i can sure SDK can compile test new package. but not sure if it can build rootfs. :(
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: i remenber i asked that in owrt-devel channel, and got an aswer related to look at the code ! ;-)
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: (can build rootfs) is okay, if m rootfs is stable enought why i need change it?, what should be worring is not able to compile sofware easilly for it
<kristianpaul>
i think thats the rule for jlime sofware, isnt zrafa ?
<kristianpaul>
(rootfs is stable enought why i need change it?)
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: hmm.. I have check the code. seems we can not build rootfs by the "make ....", but I want make sure it with openwrt people.
<xiangfu>
we need well document the "SDK" :)
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul: BTW, I found all rootfs files are just there in "SDK", just there is no "entry" in Makefile for create the rootfs.ubi :)
<kristianpaul>
oh
<wpwrak>
(rootfs) why not just build it from packages ?
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: rootfs: yes. For me, one nice thing is to have the bootstrap rootfs. It is really small. Then you just can build your own rootfs installing packages from repo. All is there. IF you would like to have a rootfs with X and icewm, you just install bootstrap and install on, the proper packages from repo (X, icewmm, etc). If you just want a rootfs based on console applications.. you install bootstrap and then install from repo all the console appl
<zrafa>
It would be: a minimal rootfs (bootstrap) which just boot and give you a shell. ANd then you need a complete repository full of packages ready to install. THen you can have different scripts or Makefiles to build different kind of rootfs using that. Sure, OE does that, openwrt does that, etc.. But all of them has their own rules, which are hard to port between those development systems.
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: another ugly thing I see is when the upstream development system you use change something, then you find problems to build new rootfs, to use preivous packages built, to run applications which previously worked but no now that upstream changed lib-X.. etc. I like one stable thing. And for me, it means that I am comfortable with something to play. And here that means that I have a huge repository ready, built, useful. I will change next year,
<zrafa>
you can have a lot of fun building the rootfs of your dreams because you are not worried about software, you are worried about how well it is set or how nice your applications look.
<zrafa>
I will change next year=maybe I will change IT next year
<kristianpaul>
i see this cycle:Â Â devel base rootfs> test got stable and freeze > compile non esencial packakes, get it work with current rootfs > imrprove those apps > enjoy
<kristianpaul>
after enjoy time will pass until somebody got bored and want a new rootfs (if this really happens ;-))
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: if somebody got bored and want a new rootfs, he can take bootstrap and install on that packages he wants for his new rootfs. Nothing will break, because you are using the same repo and the same bootstrap.
<kristianpaul>
hmm
<kristianpaul>
good point
<kristianpaul>
now how libs influence all this?
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: when I say "install on that packages" I am not saying "download, build and install", I am saying "install the package.ipk" from repo, which is already built
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: all the libs on the same repo are okey, you could install all of them and the system will not break
<kristianpaul>
are libs finally, thats truth
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: the bootstrap has minimal libs, the basic libs for init, shell/busybox, whatever.
<kristianpaul>
ujum
<kristianpaul>
owrt have great future and relly on SDK sucess i think
<zrafa>
i would like to have a debian or fedora repo for mobile devices. Then -> FUN
<zrafa>
well, there is  fun porting and fixing things when these do not build or needs some twicks for mobile devices. But it would be nicer if all the repo is ready and you just use your dreams to use the repo properly, building different kind of rootfs which you know will work.
<wpwrak>
zrafa: (rootfs) with opkg-target, you can go even one step further back and generate the rootfs from scratch. all you need are a few system directories and a small number of config/script files.
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: (scratch) upstream? or local sources?
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: we are confusing "building rootfs" with building (compiling) software
<kristianpaul>
hmm yes
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: I mean, repo is there.. all is built, you will not build (compile) software
<kristianpaul>
zrafa: what i will build then?
<zrafa>
wpwrak: yes, you are right :) opkg-target could be used for building the rootfs from scratch
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: you will build your rootfs :)
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: you will use opkg-target on your pc, you will tell opkg-target to install on some dir the packages (from repo) : eglibc, init, bash, etc..
<kristianpaul>
in that sense build = copy and arrange bianries and config files??
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: all of them are packages already built (packages.ipk)
<zrafa>
build = install packages
<kristianpaul>
oh i was thinking other thing
<zrafa>
and maybe yes, set some config files or things like a wallpaper if you use some GUI
<zrafa>
(just to tell you an example)
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: now, are you following the idea? :)