Topic for #qi-hardware is now Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs
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<paul_boddie>
Hello! Anyone here with kernel booting knowledge on the NanoNote?
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<wolfspraul>
the kernel on my nano boots, but other than that I'm not sure how much knowledge I have
<paul_boddie>
Tried to get Emdebian to boot from the SD, and I think I've got it to init, but I wouldn't mind confirming some details.
<wolfspraul>
maybe just write, the people with more inside knowledge are either in this channel or nowhere :-)
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: anything to add regarding shipping to .cn ?
<paul_boddie>
Emdebian seems pretty viable, by the way, once the dust has been blown off the documentation.
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: not really, we small guys are always on the loosing end, it seems :-)
<wolfspraul>
so fedex argentina only handles business packages to china?
<wolfspraul>
I have never heard of the requirement for the importer ID on my end
<wpwrak>
the way i understand it, it's an issue on the chinese side
<wolfspraul>
yes, that system exists, but only for corporate packages
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: you don't think chinese have a private life and some private packages?
<wolfspraul>
not sure how many millions of packages with god knows what amazon ships to china every year... :-)
<paul_boddie>
Well, I used a U-Boot from 2011 because the newer ones aren't supposed to work. And I found the boot command line (kernel parameters) that show that the device and location of the image. And after getting past the "cannot find kernel image", the issue seemed to be where the init program was.
<wolfspraul>
*if* fedex declares this as a professional/business shipment, then sure the recipient needs the company id and paperwork
<wpwrak>
of course they do. but that doesn't mean that customs has to acknowledge that :)
<wolfspraul>
but if it's a package to a private recipient in china, there should be no issue
<wolfspraul>
but I know in some countries fedex only accepts 'business' packages to some destinations
<wolfspraul>
seems to be the case between argentina and china...
<wpwrak>
hmm
<wolfspraul>
nobody I know here has such a company/importer ID
<wolfspraul>
fedex says they don't take private packages to china?
<wolfspraul>
or they say private packages to china don't exist?
<wpwrak>
there's something similar in argentina. you need it if your shipment exceeds the limits of the "simplified regime"
<wolfspraul>
anyway arguing will not help you...
<paul_boddie>
I think I fixed that by adding a symbolic link from /etc/preinit to /sbin/init (mentioned on the Debian debootstrap page) since the latter isn't specified on the kernel command line, although it's probably in the kernel's init/main.c, so I wondered what the purpose of that file was.
<wolfspraul>
whatever 'regime' the little board you are sending would qualify for...
<wpwrak>
e.g., then the shipment is valued > USD 1000
<wolfspraul>
paul_boddie: I will definitely ask xiangfu to look into this, but it's friday evening here and maybe it will take a day or so to get hold of him...
<wpwrak>
well, i don't know what rules they have in china :) i tend to trust fedex to know their customs very well :)
<wolfspraul>
I never modified or dealt with kernel booting at that level
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: yes, agreed. but it's fedex who does not *want* to ship private packages to china
<wolfspraul>
which is their choice, of course
<wpwrak>
but i'll give it a try with explicitly stating that it's for personal use. let's see if they take it.
<wolfspraul>
I can imagine that business shipments only with full chinese paperwork are easier/higher margin than dealing with the private mess - especially in china
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: maybe not. I use fedex a lot and as I said sometimes they voluntarily restrict themselves to business packages
<wolfspraul>
then their entire system/computers/staff etc. are not setup to process 'private' packages on that route, and there is nothing you can do
<wpwrak>
so you're saying fedex generally doesn't ship to private recipients in china ?
<wolfspraul>
at least not from argentina, it seems
<wpwrak>
because the argentina end certainly does
<wolfspraul>
think about how little that business is anyway
<wpwrak>
hmm. could be that there are specific restricting for things coming from argentina, true
<wolfspraul>
but sure it's possible that into china fedex is doing 'business' only from anywhere in the world, I don't know
<wpwrak>
reciprocal trade sanctions and such
<wolfspraul>
fedex is different from the other guys in many ways
<wolfspraul>
they are more expensive, have better service, have their own customs agents, and easily make tough decisions to only focus on profitable business :-)
<wolfspraul>
in china they are the only onces insiting on their 'foreign' status meaning all fedex delivery cars have the black 'foreigner' license plates
<wolfspraul>
whereas everybody else is going with the flow and opens chinese/joint-venture subsidiaries etc.
<wolfspraul>
most likely together with a substantial lowering of standards along the way
<wolfspraul>
it may be that fedex is only licensed to take business packages into china
<wolfspraul>
they are a small niche/expensive/high-end player here (in china)
<wolfspraul>
this is as much as I know about the situation
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<wolfspraul>
I like fedex but in china the are crazy expensive
<paul_boddie>
wolfspraul: Thanks! I think I probably just have to read up a bit more about it. Initially, I thought that I didn't have an init program, but you do get one with a Debian bootstrap, and I think that it's the integration between the kernel and the userland that is the critical part. I actually think now that I have to get a working inittab running.
<wolfspraul>
and their staff is about 100 times more educated/knowledgeable than at any other shipping company :-)
<wolfspraul>
or make that 1000 times
<wolfspraul>
how about ups/dhl?
<LunaVorax>
Hello
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<wpwrak>
(fedex being special in china) hmm, okay
<wpwrak>
and yes, it's the quality of their service why i prefer them. with all the others, i had my horror stories, but never with fedex.
<wpwrak>
let's see about UPS/DHL ...
<wpwrak>
have you or anyone you know received good (not documents) via UPS or DHL in china ?
<paul_boddie>
Maybe I have to do some OpenWrt/Debian integration. Or try a Debian mipsel kernel but with support for the NanoNote's devices.
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: I outsource all of that to someone like xiangfu, we need to ask him
<wpwrak>
hmm. he's probably already gone :-(
<paul_boddie>
I'll figure it out, I guess. I suppose it's a learning process. But I'm encouraged by Emdebian, at least. It seems like there's an infrastructure there to support lots of embedded platforms.
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<paul_boddie>
The mipsel stuff just seems to work. I ran programs in a chroot and even apt-get worked.
<wpwrak>
i would be very nice to have a proper debian for the ben. debian should have less maintenance hassle than, say, openembedded
<paul_boddie>
It's probably also better for things like licence compliance, too - shipping the corresponding sources, and so on - because of the source package infrastructure Debian provides. I'm not sure how OpenWrt helps with that.
<jow_laptop>
openwrt ships patches and makefiles with build instructions
<jow_laptop>
patches are applied on top of the vanilla tarballs of the upstream projects
<jow_laptop>
no custom source tarballs
<paul_boddie>
Yes, I see that in the "buildroot" I'm using. I was just thinking of the practical side of shipping an image and then being able to say, "Here are the sources!"
<jow_laptop>
yes, likely
<jow_laptop>
but only interesting for self-hosting systems
<jow_laptop>
imo
<jow_laptop>
if you cannot recompile the os on the os it makes no reals sense to have the sources available via the package manager
<paul_boddie>
True, but for someone shipping an image, if they don't already get the sources to some GPL-licensed stuff and then someone wants those sources, maybe to rebuild the image on their PC, is it not better to have those sources ready to give them? Or better still, just give them the sources on a DVD with the image?
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<jow_laptop>
but I don't see the inherent openwrt problem with that
<jow_laptop>
just run dirclean in the openwrt buildroot, tar it up and offer it as download
<jow_laptop>
it will be a fully selfcontained dump of any used source
<jow_laptop>
however I only skimmed the discussion here so please excuse if I missed the point
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<paul_boddie>
I don't think you missed anything. :-) I was hoping you'd mention a make target to solve the problem, though. ;-)
<paul_boddie>
Thanks for the help! I'll see how far I get with Emdebian and then try and write it up.
<kristianpaul>
upstream author came with this NDK 3.2x2.5
<kristianpaul>
Just to clarify i'm editing the component properties
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<kristianpaul>
erghh digkey dont have a 16Mhz NT3225SA :-|
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<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: if you're editing the component properties in eeschema, they will be saves in the schematics. if you edit them with the component editor, they'll be saved in the .lib file. does that answer your question ? :)
<wpwrak>
(i.e., i don't quite understand what you actually asked :)
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<kristianpaul>
hmm
<kristianpaul>
yes i'm editing on eeschema
<kristianpaul>
but wait i asked about the Footprint Field in the Component Propierties window from eeschema
<wpwrak>
yes ... you can set the footprint there
<wpwrak>
or pick it later in cvpcb
<wpwrak>
i tend to find cvpcb more convenient
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<kristianpaul>
okay how boom handle custom footprints values?