<whitequark>
that's what those crystals were. I identify as CuSO₄·H₂O due to pale blue color
<DocScrutinizer05>
nice
<DocScrutinizer05>
watching the glass with drop of Galden in it, it occurred to me to wonder whether inert substances have taste/smell. I tend to think they could
<whitequark>
hm well, see, it's twofold
<whitequark>
on one hand human nose can be pretty sensitive, detecting single ppm concentrations is routine
<whitequark>
on other one *why* do you think you feel odors? because it conferred some advantage. hence, stuff you can eat, stuff that can infect you, and that's about it
<whitequark>
the only poisonous gases which have pungent odor are those you can find in nature
<whitequark>
eg H₂S is awful yet CO is odorless
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's an interesting viewing angle
<whitequark>
that's no idle speculation, I've asked this question to my physiology teacher
<whitequark>
so. it's more or less same with taste. and I have really big doubts about availability of galden in nature
<whitequark>
anyway, just taste it? it's not toxic and doesn't cause sensitization
<whitequark>
MSDS says so at least
<DocScrutinizer05>
I've a more theoretical approach: how does smelling work? I think it orks by pattern matching, not by chemical interactivity
<whitequark>
the neurons responsible for smell have receptor proteins on their surface, exposed to air
<whitequark>
those receptors are activated by either whole compounds or certain functional groups
<DocScrutinizer05>
proteines
<DocScrutinizer05>
good keyword
<whitequark>
hm?
<DocScrutinizer05>
it gives a clue where to look for how it works
<whitequark>
pubmed.com :)
<whitequark>
well, pubmed is good if you need something specific. for general inquiries it's better to pick up a physiology textbook
<whitequark>
lemme try to remember which one we used...
<DocScrutinizer05>
I know of a number of proteines that are supposed to work without chemical interaction to e.g. DNA
<DocScrutinizer05>
more like mere mechanical tools
<whitequark>
um, I think you're confused here
<whitequark>
*all* interactions on that scale are wholly chemical, meaning electron shells of proteins and their substrates interact
<whitequark>
if a protein seems to "pump" something without affecting its structure, it means that it creates a weak bond which is soon dissolved
<whitequark>
for example
<whitequark>
what I mean is that you cannot disregard interaction of electron shells, it's crucial to the function, even if start and end conformation is the same
<DocScrutinizer05>
and are those hulls active on inert substance?
<whitequark>
define "active"
<whitequark>
there's always electrostatic interaction, with one outcome or another
<DocScrutinizer05>
or could you say an inert substance (say gold, argon) is *always* free of taste and smell?
<whitequark>
there's no such thing as "absolutely inert", but for human purposes no proteins would interact with argon (and gold, I think) strongly enough to produce measurable signal
<whitequark>
I really don't know how exactly "inert" galden is
<DocScrutinizer05>
I don't wonder about Galden
<whitequark>
what about then?
<DocScrutinizer05>
I just wondered if those proteines *can* interact wih ibert stuff
<DocScrutinizer05>
inert*
<DocScrutinizer05>
I thought they can
<whitequark>
well... turns out gold isn't really that inert
<whitequark>
lemme also check the inert gases, maybe there's something I don't know about that
<whitequark>
wow
<whitequark>
"At a pressure of 7 bar, four xenon binding sites were found in myoglobin"
<whitequark>
Xe, Kr and Ar were bound to an engineered T4 bacteriohpage
<whitequark>
however as I understand, it's not living stuff, it's just in lab
<DocScrutinizer05>
so you say rare gas is ingerently free of any smell/taste?
<whitequark>
no, it works in living stuff too; xenon can be used for anastheseia
<DocScrutinizer05>
inherently
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: it appears that proteins can indeed bind heavy noble gases like Xe, Kr, Ar
<DocScrutinizer05>
mhm
<whitequark>
so it's not inherently, it's just because that feature would be useless
<DocScrutinizer05>
thought as much
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, many thanks for this very inspiring new viewing angle
<whitequark>
heh, you're welcome
<wpwrak>
what's incidental, the ability to bind or the (lack of) smell/taste ?
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<whitequark>
wpwrak: the lack of smell/taste
<whitequark>
aka, regardless of whether it's *possible* to have binding proteins, *will* we have them?
<whitequark>
will we need, rather
<wpwrak>
i'd agree that the binding may be incidental (though there are cases where "exotic" atoms appear in this sort of places, doing something useful. so i wouldn't be too dismissive without some background research. oops, there goes another bunch of PhDs ...)
<wpwrak>
if the binding happens in real life and the chemistry produced no other results, then the taste should indeed be absent
<wpwrak>
if the binding doesn't happen outside labs, then the taste should be arbitrary
<whitequark>
wpwrak: no no, this is not what I meant at all
<whitequark>
see, the receptors are usually very specific. they simply won't bind to anything except their own compounds or groups
<whitequark>
sure, it sometimes happens that something binds somewhere completely unrelated, but it's kinda rare
<wpwrak>
arbitrary = e.g., possibly determined by analogous mechanisms, and thus following their analogous pattern, even if the chemical affect is not comparable
<wpwrak>
ah, i see. so you mean that it's no coincidence
<wpwrak>
i'd agree, as long as it's a reaction that can happen a reasonable amount of times in real life
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<damo22>
anyone familiar with WZR buffalo device?
<damo22>
i have one here and tried flashing librewrt to it, im not sure what to do next because i cant seem to get a DHCP address from the router
<whitequark>
try #librewrt maybe?
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* whitequark
ponders if he should buy that lomond high-temp film tomorrow or wait for delivery on monday
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<whitequark>
hm, interesting. I tried to use F200 instead of F20 and got much cleaner cut for PCBs
<whitequark>
no built-up copper edge
<whitequark>
though it seems... the dimensions are significantly different? weird
<whitequark>
11.4 on F200, 11.2 on F20
<whitequark>
cutting a circle with d=11 with a d=1 endmill
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<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm?
<DocScrutinizer05>
F200?
<pcercuei>
sounds like a Ferrari
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-P
<whitequark>
g-code for "feedrate 200mm/min"
<DocScrutinizer05>
mhm
<DocScrutinizer05>
seems to me like that CNC program is utter crap, eh?
<whitequark>
why?
<DocScrutinizer05>
you said it
<DocScrutinizer05>
((<whitequark> though it seems... the dimensions are significantly different? weird))
<whitequark>
I don't think it has something to do with CNC program
<whitequark>
rather the shitty way I fix the PCB on table
<whitequark>
double-sided adhesive tape
<DocScrutinizer05>
errr
<DocScrutinizer05>
well
<DocScrutinizer05>
I can't come up with a story how that could get caused by sticky tape
<whitequark>
tool pushes workpiece around while moving
<whitequark>
tape is not rigid enough. it doesn't move very easily, but it can definitely move ±0.1mm
<DocScrutinizer05>
shouldn't the circly be *smaller* on F200 then?
<DocScrutinizer05>
oh well, maybe it's about time, not force
<whitequark>
maybe has something to do with cutter forces? climb vs conventional milling
<whitequark>
aka the direction of cut vs direction of spin
<DocScrutinizer05>
you probably want to build a proper fixture, consisting of a 11mm MDF with some steel and screws
<whitequark>
well. I'm still a bit lost as to how fix a PCB I'm cutting from inside a bigger piece of PCB
<DocScrutinizer05>
now that's probably the easiest part? drill 4 holes, use 4 SPAX to fix PCB to MDF victim material
<whitequark>
assuming I want 4 holes in that pcb, yes
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<DocScrutinizer05>
well, otherwise you need to place the spax carefully and precisely to the edge of PCB, so the spax cyl head bottom will center the PCB and give it 100% rigid mounting
<DocScrutinizer05>
you'll need 8 spax for that, 2 on each side
<DocScrutinizer05>
min
<DocScrutinizer05>
or you use the steel stripes I suggested, 2mm thick and maybe 10*50mm, with two long holes for two screws to fix
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<pcercuei>
any of you guys going to the embedded world conference in Nuremberg?
* larsc
;)
<pcercuei>
I guessed so :p
<DocScrutinizer05>
oI
<DocScrutinizer05>
not too far for me ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
random sidenote: UMTS dwonload of some random stuff. It initially had a terrible ditch in bandwidth, foing down to <100k/s every now and then -> http://privatepaste.com/a373622b48
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<whitequark>
btw I just went to a Lomond shop, bought some film for hi-temp laser printers and chatted with the friendly guy there
<whitequark>
what he told me:
<whitequark>
1) he isn't aware of any difference between regular and hi-temp film except thickness: 100µm vs 125µm
<whitequark>
2) film most certainly and definitely should not deform when ran through my DCP-7010R (which isn't hi-temp by the way) or via a 120°C laminator
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<whitequark>
3) he has no idea why setting "Transparencies" screws the picture up, though he wasn't looking very puzzled either--I suspect printers sabotaging one's job are quite common
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer will leave his cave ? guys, take pictures ! that's more rare than sighting nessie or bigfoot together
<DocScrutinizer05>
/o\
<whitequark>
4) he is aware of only two parameters printer would vary based on "paper type" box: fusor t° and paper advance speed
<whitequark>
so... will go home and then test this out
<wpwrak>
#s/ or / and / # that's what you get for editing your sentence while still half asleep
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: I need that to get the drive running. You know, "heart of gold"
<whitequark>
the improbability engine?
<DocScrutinizer05>
infinite improbability drive
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<whitequark>
don't tell me you run our universe in zaphod mode!
<DocScrutinizer05>
and it always seems like my encounters out there are exactly like described in those novels
<wpwrak>
people with two heads, talking fish, and such ...
<DocScrutinizer05>
ooh, I planned to have a short service session on my home automation