DocScrutinizer05 changed the topic of #qi-hardware to: Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs and http://irclog.whitequark.org/qi-hardware
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<whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: I found an interesting thing locally, HP C6778A film
<whitequark> advertised as "UV-resistant", hence it is probably *intended* for printing photonegatives
<whitequark> though it costs $300 so I don't think I want it
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<whitequark> by the way, it was indeed the concentration of resist
<whitequark> 15% etchant removes 35µm of copper in 20 minutes very cleanly
<whitequark> at 27°C
<DocScrutinizer05> (( <whitequark> by the way, it was indeed the concentration of resist )) <-- ??
<whitequark> errr
<whitequark> etchant
<whitequark> typoed
<whitequark> lemme upload a note, there's fabulous pictures
<whitequark> well, no, not yet, need to test with proper test pattern
<whitequark> though: http://i.imgur.com/U4ItxjK.jpg
<whitequark> that's what those crystals were. I identify as CuSO₄·H₂O due to pale blue color
<DocScrutinizer05> nice
<DocScrutinizer05> watching the glass with drop of Galden in it, it occurred to me to wonder whether inert substances have taste/smell. I tend to think they could
<whitequark> hm well, see, it's twofold
<whitequark> on one hand human nose can be pretty sensitive, detecting single ppm concentrations is routine
<whitequark> on other one *why* do you think you feel odors? because it conferred some advantage. hence, stuff you can eat, stuff that can infect you, and that's about it
<whitequark> the only poisonous gases which have pungent odor are those you can find in nature
<whitequark> eg H₂S is awful yet CO is odorless
<DocScrutinizer05> that's an interesting viewing angle
<whitequark> that's no idle speculation, I've asked this question to my physiology teacher
<whitequark> so. it's more or less same with taste. and I have really big doubts about availability of galden in nature
<whitequark> anyway, just taste it? it's not toxic and doesn't cause sensitization
<whitequark> MSDS says so at least
<DocScrutinizer05> I've a more theoretical approach: how does smelling work? I think it orks by pattern matching, not by chemical interactivity
<whitequark> the neurons responsible for smell have receptor proteins on their surface, exposed to air
<whitequark> those receptors are activated by either whole compounds or certain functional groups
<DocScrutinizer05> proteines
<DocScrutinizer05> good keyword
<whitequark> hm?
<DocScrutinizer05> it gives a clue where to look for how it works
<whitequark> pubmed.com :)
<whitequark> well, pubmed is good if you need something specific. for general inquiries it's better to pick up a physiology textbook
<whitequark> lemme try to remember which one we used...
<DocScrutinizer05> I know of a number of proteines that are supposed to work without chemical interaction to e.g. DNA
<DocScrutinizer05> more like mere mechanical tools
<whitequark> um, I think you're confused here
<whitequark> *all* interactions on that scale are wholly chemical, meaning electron shells of proteins and their substrates interact
<whitequark> if a protein seems to "pump" something without affecting its structure, it means that it creates a weak bond which is soon dissolved
<whitequark> for example
<whitequark> what I mean is that you cannot disregard interaction of electron shells, it's crucial to the function, even if start and end conformation is the same
<DocScrutinizer05> and are those hulls active on inert substance?
<whitequark> define "active"
<whitequark> there's always electrostatic interaction, with one outcome or another
<DocScrutinizer05> or could you say an inert substance (say gold, argon) is *always* free of taste and smell?
<whitequark> there's no such thing as "absolutely inert", but for human purposes no proteins would interact with argon (and gold, I think) strongly enough to produce measurable signal
<whitequark> I really don't know how exactly "inert" galden is
<DocScrutinizer05> I don't wonder about Galden
<whitequark> what about then?
<DocScrutinizer05> I just wondered if those proteines *can* interact wih ibert stuff
<DocScrutinizer05> inert*
<DocScrutinizer05> I thought they can
<whitequark> well... turns out gold isn't really that inert
<whitequark> e.g. there are bacteria for which gold is toxic and they excrete it in nanoparticles: http://www.nature.com/news/gold-digging-bacterium-makes-precious-particles-1.12352
<whitequark> such a tiny peptide used for accumulating the metal: http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summary/summary.cgi?sid=160657715
<DocScrutinizer05> LOL
<whitequark> lemme also check the inert gases, maybe there's something I don't know about that
<whitequark> wow
<whitequark> "At a pressure of 7 bar, four xenon binding sites were found in myoglobin"
<whitequark> Xe, Kr and Ar were bound to an engineered T4 bacteriohpage
<whitequark> however as I understand, it's not living stuff, it's just in lab
<DocScrutinizer05> so you say rare gas is ingerently free of any smell/taste?
<whitequark> no, it works in living stuff too; xenon can be used for anastheseia
<DocScrutinizer05> inherently
<whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: it appears that proteins can indeed bind heavy noble gases like Xe, Kr, Ar
<DocScrutinizer05> mhm
<whitequark> so it's not inherently, it's just because that feature would be useless
<DocScrutinizer05> thought as much
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, many thanks for this very inspiring new viewing angle
<whitequark> heh, you're welcome
<wpwrak> what's incidental, the ability to bind or the (lack of) smell/taste ?
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<whitequark> wpwrak: the lack of smell/taste
<whitequark> aka, regardless of whether it's *possible* to have binding proteins, *will* we have them?
<whitequark> will we need, rather
<wpwrak> i'd agree that the binding may be incidental (though there are cases where "exotic" atoms appear in this sort of places, doing something useful. so i wouldn't be too dismissive without some background research. oops, there goes another bunch of PhDs ...)
<wpwrak> if the binding happens in real life and the chemistry produced no other results, then the taste should indeed be absent
<wpwrak> if the binding doesn't happen outside labs, then the taste should be arbitrary
<whitequark> wpwrak: no no, this is not what I meant at all
<whitequark> see, the receptors are usually very specific. they simply won't bind to anything except their own compounds or groups
<whitequark> sure, it sometimes happens that something binds somewhere completely unrelated, but it's kinda rare
<wpwrak> arbitrary = e.g., possibly determined by analogous mechanisms, and thus following their analogous pattern, even if the chemical affect is not comparable
<wpwrak> ah, i see. so you mean that it's no coincidence
<wpwrak> i'd agree, as long as it's a reaction that can happen a reasonable amount of times in real life
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<damo22> anyone familiar with WZR buffalo device?
<damo22> i have one here and tried flashing librewrt to it, im not sure what to do next because i cant seem to get a DHCP address from the router
<whitequark> try #librewrt maybe?
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* whitequark ponders if he should buy that lomond high-temp film tomorrow or wait for delivery on monday
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<whitequark> hm, interesting. I tried to use F200 instead of F20 and got much cleaner cut for PCBs
<whitequark> no built-up copper edge
<whitequark> though it seems... the dimensions are significantly different? weird
<whitequark> 11.4 on F200, 11.2 on F20
<whitequark> cutting a circle with d=11 with a d=1 endmill
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<DocScrutinizer05> hmm?
<DocScrutinizer05> F200?
<pcercuei> sounds like a Ferrari
<DocScrutinizer05> :-P
<whitequark> g-code for "feedrate 200mm/min"
<DocScrutinizer05> mhm
<DocScrutinizer05> seems to me like that CNC program is utter crap, eh?
<whitequark> why?
<DocScrutinizer05> you said it
<DocScrutinizer05> ((<whitequark> though it seems... the dimensions are significantly different? weird))
<whitequark> I don't think it has something to do with CNC program
<whitequark> rather the shitty way I fix the PCB on table
<whitequark> double-sided adhesive tape
<DocScrutinizer05> errr
<DocScrutinizer05> well
<DocScrutinizer05> I can't come up with a story how that could get caused by sticky tape
<whitequark> tool pushes workpiece around while moving
<whitequark> tape is not rigid enough. it doesn't move very easily, but it can definitely move ±0.1mm
<DocScrutinizer05> shouldn't the circly be *smaller* on F200 then?
<DocScrutinizer05> oh well, maybe it's about time, not force
<whitequark> maybe has something to do with cutter forces? climb vs conventional milling
<whitequark> aka the direction of cut vs direction of spin
<DocScrutinizer05> you probably want to build a proper fixture, consisting of a 11mm MDF with some steel and screws
<whitequark> well. I'm still a bit lost as to how fix a PCB I'm cutting from inside a bigger piece of PCB
<DocScrutinizer05> now that's probably the easiest part? drill 4 holes, use 4 SPAX to fix PCB to MDF victim material
<whitequark> assuming I want 4 holes in that pcb, yes
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<DocScrutinizer05> well, otherwise you need to place the spax carefully and precisely to the edge of PCB, so the spax cyl head bottom will center the PCB and give it 100% rigid mounting
<DocScrutinizer05> you'll need 8 spax for that, 2 on each side
<DocScrutinizer05> min
<DocScrutinizer05> or you use the steel stripes I suggested, 2mm thick and maybe 10*50mm, with two long holes for two screws to fix
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<pcercuei> any of you guys going to the embedded world conference in Nuremberg?
* larsc ;)
<pcercuei> I guessed so :p
<DocScrutinizer05> oI
<DocScrutinizer05> not too far for me ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> random sidenote: UMTS dwonload of some random stuff. It initially had a terrible ditch in bandwidth, foing down to <100k/s every now and then -> http://privatepaste.com/a373622b48
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* whitequark has suddenly made this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BhE2maMCIAAH2A2.jpg:large
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<DocScrutinizer05> HAH!
<DocScrutinizer05> CNC?
<DocScrutinizer05> sweet
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<whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: yeah!
<DocScrutinizer05> :)
<whitequark> btw I just went to a Lomond shop, bought some film for hi-temp laser printers and chatted with the friendly guy there
<whitequark> what he told me:
<whitequark> 1) he isn't aware of any difference between regular and hi-temp film except thickness: 100µm vs 125µm
<whitequark> 2) film most certainly and definitely should not deform when ran through my DCP-7010R (which isn't hi-temp by the way) or via a 120°C laminator
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<whitequark> 3) he has no idea why setting "Transparencies" screws the picture up, though he wasn't looking very puzzled either--I suspect printers sabotaging one's job are quite common
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer will leave his cave ? guys, take pictures ! that's more rare than sighting nessie or bigfoot together
<DocScrutinizer05> /o\
<whitequark> 4) he is aware of only two parameters printer would vary based on "paper type" box: fusor t° and paper advance speed
<whitequark> so... will go home and then test this out
<wpwrak> #s/ or / and / # that's what you get for editing your sentence while still half asleep
<DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: I need that to get the drive running. You know, "heart of gold"
<whitequark> the improbability engine?
<DocScrutinizer05> infinite improbability drive
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<whitequark> don't tell me you run our universe in zaphod mode!
<DocScrutinizer05> and it always seems like my encounters out there are exactly like described in those novels
<wpwrak> people with two heads, talking fish, and such ...
<DocScrutinizer05> ooh, I planned to have a short service session on my home automation
<DocScrutinizer05> http://wstaw.org/m/2014/02/22/plasma-desktopwR3389.png nausea inducing, no?
<whitequark> looks like windows 95
<whitequark> those comboboxes... ugh
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<DocScrutinizer05> while this doesn't help the nausea either: http://wstaw.org/m/2014/02/22/plasma-desktopBs3389.png
<DocScrutinizer05> I mean, those are only 6 changing digits, how long can it take to copy this crap?
<DocScrutinizer05> Total DISK READ: 1631.66 K/s | Total DISK WRITE: 1597.19 K/s
<DocScrutinizer05> TID PRIO USER DISK READ> DISK WRITE SWAPIN IO COMMAND
<DocScrutinizer05> 17772 be/4 root 163.01 G 162.17 G 0.00 % 92.73 % cp -av /home/jr home-jr/
<DocScrutinizer05> *YAWN*
<DocScrutinizer05> estimated 100 files/s, so it can't take forever
<DocScrutinizer05> \o/
<DocScrutinizer05> WOW, done
<DocScrutinizer05> uptime 68 days, only
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