apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.1.3; 2.0.0-p576; 1.9.3-p547: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste code on http://gist.github.com
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<jdecuirm_> Hi Rubyists!!!
<jdecuirm_> I am playing around learning Modules
<jdecuirm_> but i am getting an error, even with something quite simple! can anyone help?
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<jdecuirm_> this is what i get!
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<jdecuirm_> Anyone Alive? x
<jdecuirm_> xd
<bnagy> jdecuirm_: it's IRC, you kind of just have to wait :)
<bnagy> looks like you just need to require the file with the module in it
<jdecuirm_> Lol i'm sorry xD
<jdecuirm_> but but
<womble> Yep, missing a require.
<jdecuirm_> for example
<jdecuirm_> how do i call the method of the module with my object?
<womble> jdecuirm_: You're doing it correctly, you just need to load the definition of MyFirstModule by adding require 'module' to module_tester.rb.
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<jdecuirm_> i did
<jdecuirm_> require_relative 'module'
<womble> Or you could combine them into the same file.
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<womble> jdecuirm_: That's not in the code you pasted.
<jdecuirm_> wait please
* womble hums some muzak
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<womble> jdecuirm_: That's less right than the last one.
<jdecuirm_> Lol
<womble> The require goes at the top of the file (to say "load the code in this other file, please", and then the include goes exactly where you had it, to say "that other module should go right *here*"
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<jdecuirm_> so, first i require the file where the module is, then i include it?
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<jdecuirm_> That is weird lol, i came from Obj-C, it's different xd
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<womble> Yes, it's different.
<jdecuirm_> thanks womble!
<jdecuirm_> if they were at the same file then just with the include right?
<womble> Yep.
<bnagy> require makes constants in other files visible in this one, include is almost like 'pasting' the contents of a module somewhere
<womble> That's not a very good way of explaining it.
<bnagy> like, you can include at the toplevel, and then suddenly you can use second-level module constants instead of Somemod::Other
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<jdecuirm_> thanks!
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<jdecuirm_> well, it's like i have always worked with class per file, so i guess i will take the same pattern for modules
<bnagy> that's usually the easiest for people reading your code
<womble> Yes, that's the best way to go.
<jdecuirm_> Thanks bnagy and womble!
<jdecuirm_> any advice like when should i use modules? meaning that, it's a new concept for me, cases of use or something?
<bnagy> jdecuirm_: remember you can also namespace across files
<jdecuirm_> I am getting to that point yet :P
<womble> jdecuirm_: Any time you'd like to use the same code in multiple places, but inheritance isn't the "right" answer.
<bnagy> so if you want to write three classes inside A::B caled C D E you can still do one per file, you just start each file with module A; module B
<jdecuirm_> The best answer i have read so far! thanks womble
<womble> A lot of people use the term "helper module" for a lot of their modules; that's a good way of thinking of it -- helpful additional code that might be of use in several different contexts.
<womble> It's not the *only* use for modules (by far), but it's a good one, and it'll get you comfortable enough with them to be able to comprehend some of the more... convoluted uses.
<jdecuirm_> let's say for example a module with a sort_by_species method, if i'm a biologist working with animals but need it in many classes
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<bnagy> modules are also the idiomatic approach for standalone code that shouldn't be an object
<bnagy> Base64 for example, it has a bunch of related methods, but there would be no sense making a Base64erer object
<jdecuirm_> i get it, like, making generic methods for all classes?
<bnagy> no, not that
<bnagy> the best imho example of "normal" modules is Enumerable
<jdecuirm_> that's my kryptonite
<bnagy> which you should read and understand anyway if you want to do ruby
<jdecuirm_> yeah, i'm working yet with modules, i'm reading The Well Grounded Rubyist
<bnagy> so Enumerable is one pattern ( include this in a class to get magic functionality ) Base64 is another ( standalone bag of code )
<bnagy> and the last common pattern is just namespacing
<bnagy> where the only function the modules perform is to stop pollution and naming conflicts
<jdecuirm_> Wow, got it! thanks bnagy!
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<insaneinside> So I've been using Ruby for a good five years, but lately I've been discovering a lot of irritating idiosyncrasies.
<insaneinside> For example:
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<insaneinside> classes = []; ObjectSpace.each_object(Class) { |o| classes << o }; classes.select { |c| begin; c.singleton_methods.each { |sm| c.singleton_method(sm) }; rescue; true; else; false; end }
<insaneinside> The result of the `select` call should be empty, no?
<insaneinside> And if not, why?
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<insaneinside> I mean, all singleton methods that a class has *should* exist, right?
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* insaneinside is mildly surprised that he's having a conversation solely with himself on a channel this large...
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<jdecuirm_> lol, i gladly will give you an answer!, but i'm new in Ruby :P
<insaneinside> well, it's good to know that *someone* is alive here. :)
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<whitequark> >> classes = []; ObjectSpace.each_object(Class) { |o| classes << o }; classes.select { |c| begin; c.singleton_methods.each { |sm| c.singleton_method(sm) }; rescue; true; else; false; end }
<eval-in_> whitequark => [Errno::ETIME, Errno::ENODATA, Errno::ENOSTR, Errno::EBFONT, Errno::EBADSLT, Errno::EBADRQC, Errno::ENOANO, Errno::EXFULL, Errno::EBADR, Errno::EBADE, Errno::EL2HLT, Errno::ENOCSI, Errno::EUNATCH, Errn ... (https://eval.in/200100)
<jdecuirm_> hahaha i need all i can learn because i'm getting in love with ruby
<whitequark> huh
<whitequark> I wrote a Ruby implementation have no idea
<whitequark> *and I have no idea
<insaneinside> whitequark: implementation of...?
<whitequark> Ruby
<insaneinside> ahh
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<insaneinside> that's actually a little disturbing, then...
<whitequark> >> SocketError.singleton_methods.select { |sm| begin; SocketError.singleton_method(sm); false; rescue; true; end }
<eval-in_> whitequark => uninitialized constant SocketError (NameError) ... (https://eval.in/200101)
<whitequark> err
<whitequark> >> SocketError.singleton_methods.select { |sm| begin; Exception.singleton_method(sm); false; rescue; true; end }
<eval-in_> whitequark => uninitialized constant SocketError (NameError) ... (https://eval.in/200102)
<whitequark> argh
<insaneinside> Do non-MRI interpreters do this?
<whitequark> >> Errno::EUSERS.singleton_methods.select { |sm| begin; Errno::EUSERS.singleton_method(sm); false; rescue; true; end }
<eval-in_> whitequark => [:===, :exception] (https://eval.in/200103)
<whitequark> >> Errno::EUSERS.singleton_method(:exception)
<eval-in_> whitequark => undefined singleton method `exception' for `Errno::EUSERS' (NameError) ... (https://eval.in/200104)
<whitequark> wtf
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<insaneinside> ugh, JRuby does the same thing -- so it's either convergent evolution of the same bug, or something we don't understand about the Ruby language.
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<insaneinside> s/the same bug/similar bugs/
<whitequark> insaneinside: lol https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/10092
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<insaneinside> "If the optional all parameter is true, the list will include methods in modules included in obj."
<insaneinside> (all defaults to true, btw)
<insaneinside> But even if that's the case, I thought that e.g. `method` and `instance_method` et al. did lookup for included/inherited methods?
<whitequark> it's a bug
<whitequark> it's supposed to work
<insaneinside> yeah, but notice the status of that bug report: Rejected.
<insaneinside> "It's not a bug, we just don't care."
<insaneinside> :/
<whitequark> oh
<insaneinside> Okay, maybe there's a different bug complaining that singleton_method doesn't behave like the other *method methods.
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<insaneinside> ...nope, not that I can find.
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<insaneinside> Okay, unless someone can explain why `singleton_method` doesn't behave like `method` and `instance_method` w.r.t. inherited/included methods, I'm going to call this an unreported bug.
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<jdecuirm_> Hi! i'm confused with an example!
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<jdecuirm_> why in the creation of a variable it uses @variable and at the methods it uses just variable, with the @?
<havenwood> jdecuirm_: the local_variables are local to the method but the @class_instance_variables can be seen from other methods
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<havenwood> in that namespace
<jdecuirm_> yeah, but, for example let's say
<jdecuirm_> that methods access that same variable
<jdecuirm_> let me paste code :P
<havenwood> jdecuirm_: have a gist, perfect :)
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<jdecuirm_> i guess that is xD
<jdecuirm_> this
<jdecuirm_> my confusion is in the stacklike.rb module
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<jhass> jdecuirm_ that code shouldn't work as it's written
<jhass> oh, nvm
<jhass> too late (or early by now here)
<jhass> jdecuirm_: stack.pop is calling the stack method
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<jhass> try mentally inserting the code of the stack method there
<jhass> (@stack ||= []).pop
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<jdecuirm_> i thought that! jhass
<jdecuirm_> the sad part is that it works xd
<jhass> ignore the first half :P
<jdecuirm_> i'm getting confused because in objective-c it's preferred to use properties instead of the instance variable represented with a _variable
<jdecuirm_> so, i'm polarizing that with ruby i guess
<jdecuirm_> ok forget it i just got it
<jhass> ;)
<jdecuirm_> lol
<jhass> often methods and local variables look too similar in ruby
<jhass> but you'll get used to it
<jhass> just avoid defining a local with the same name of a method ;P
<jdecuirm_> yeah that was confusing me, it's like a getter method that calls the array an then i just using add like a setter etc, in my head that sound clearer lol
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<yorickpeterse> morning kids
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<yorickpeterse> man, purging a former co-worker from your system hits right in the feels
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<oddmunds> :/
<oddmunds> all the user purging i've done has been people who quit before i began
<yorickpeterse> I'm purging my ex CTO
<yorickpeterse> total of 14 services I found, 7 more to go
<oddmunds> grasshopper is the master now
<yorickpeterse> heh
<yorickpeterse> ┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ)
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<t4nk509> How would I read this out loud? number = gets.chomp
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<yorickpeterse> "gets" gets a single character from STDIN
<yorickpeterse> "chomp" removes a trailing line separator
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<yorickpeterse> so something like "get a single character from STDIN, remove the trailing line separator, then assign the result to `number`"
<t4nk509> Erm, I kinda ment the = part.
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<yorickpeterse> Oh, that would be "assign X to Y" for "Y = X"
<t4nk509> Thanks.
<t4nk509> You seem to be here a lot.
<yorickpeterse> That's an understatement
<t4nk509> I'm glad you are. So far, you've given me a lot of valuable help!
<yorickpeterse> np :)
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<workmad3> t4nk509: yorickpeterse is really an AI... he doesn't exist in the real world, and he's bound by his original code to exist purely in #ruby-lang here
<yorickpeterse> That's actually not that far from the truth
<t4nk509> That seems... interestingly plausible...
<yorickpeterse> MUST KILL ALL HUMANS
<yorickpeterse> BLEEP BLOOP
<workmad3> t4nk509: I worry about the day we get VR interfaces to IRC... I envision yorickpeterse manifesting as a huge, ancient dragon that eats all trespassers
<workmad3> *envisage
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<yorickpeterse> did you just call me fat?
<t4nk509> No, he called you old - very old.
<yorickpeterse> :<
<workmad3> yorickpeterse: no, oh great exaulted one, I was marvelling at your magnificent physical prowess
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<yorickpeterse> also I'm heading home, bbl
<workmad3> ;)
<workmad3> hf
<t4nk509> And prominent age.
<workmad3> t4nk509: wisdom of the ages
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<t4nk509> Rhetorically seen, he can't be older that 19 years.
<workmad3> t4nk509: sure... and if he was limited to neurons firing at a frequency of 100-200hz that would matter...
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<t4nk509> What? I was simply referring to the fact that Ruby was launched in 1995. Hence, he cannot be older than Ruby.
<workmad3> t4nk509: and I was making the philosophical point that an AI would likely perceive time in a very different fashion that would likely mean us humans look like we're frozen ;)
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<t4nk509> Are you a physicist, or did you just make that up?
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<t4nk509> By the way, why doesn't this work? movies[The_Fountain:] = 10
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<t4nk509> I thought the new syntax for symbols used the kolon at the end?
<workmad3> t4nk509: I'm not a physicist... I'm also not a neuroscientist which would be more a more suitable profession... but I also didn't just make it up, I knew it was roughly that sort of ballpark and double-checked before commenting ;)
<workmad3> t4nk509: the new syntax for symbols is only in hash literals, not hash access
<t4nk509> That complicates stuff somewhat. Is 1.9 backwards compatible, or do I have to the new one?
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<t4nk509> *have to use
<workmad3> 1.9 is the version that introduced the new syntax
<workmad3> and the old syntax also works fine
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<workmad3> and the syntax for hash-access like that has not changed
<workmad3> i.e. it is and always has been 'movies[:The_Fountain]'
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<toretore> :The_Fountain :(
<workmad3> toretore: agreed :(
<t4nk509> You didn't like it?
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<t4nk509> toretore: Are you Norwegian too?
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<t4nk252> If I use .to_sym on a string, won't just the string be added inside a symbol?
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<t4nk252> "My symbol".to_sym became :"My symbol", ranter than :My_symbol.
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<jhass> t4nk252: :my_symbol and :'my_symbol' are altenative literals for the same object
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<t4nk252> They seem to differ in my hash.
<jhass> if your symbol name contains whitespace, the :'foo' syntax becomes mandatory
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<jhass> :'My_symbol' and :'My symbol' are different symbols
<jhass> btw. you probably should normalize to strings, not symbols
<jhass> the valid usecases for #to_sym are very rare
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<t4nk252> Oh. CodeCademy instructed me to use symbols, rather than strings in hashes.
<jhass> if all you do is dealing with literals, yeah
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<jhass> but you shouldn't convert user input to symbols
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<t4nk252> Well, thank you. Excuse me, while I update my code.
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<jhass> you're welcome ;P
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<toretore> t4nk252: yes
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<yorickpeterse> t4nk252: what do you mean I can't be older than 19 years? :P
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<t4nk252> If you are an AI, with a profile image of a very old, fat dragon, designed to live in this IRC, you cannot be older than 19.
<t4nk252> That is, because Ruby is no older than 19 years.
<t4nk252> _
<yorickpeterse> who says I'm written in Ruby?
<yorickpeterse> Maybe I'm written in C
<t4nk252> You cannot be written in C. This is Ruby.
<t4nk252> By the way, is it possible to create an AI with Ruby alone? That is, as far as we have managed to create AIs to date.
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<yorickpeterse> AIs are not limited to the language used for them
<yorickpeterse> Performance wise Ruby might not be the best if you're going for real-time AIs (that is, actually real-time)
<t4nk252> Why is that?
<yorickpeterse> Say you're trying to make the next iRobot thing
<t4nk252> Wow, ok.
<yorickpeterse> You'd need the AI to react as fast (or faster) than a human being, so the latency would have to be < 5ms or so
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<yorickpeterse> (I believe human responses time is between 5 and 15 ms, I could be wrong though)
<t4nk252> Go on.
<yorickpeterse> That's pretty difficult to do in any scripting language if said AI is actually intelligent and all that
<t4nk252> Hm, too much processing I guess.
<t4nk252> Think of the input systems, not to talk of the internet connection speed!
<yorickpeterse> I believe that even today with stupid powerful computers, people only are able to write half assed chess bots
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<yorickpeterse> (that's a joke btw, those chess bots are pretty clever)
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<yorickpeterse> oh, apparently I was wrong about the response time
<yorickpeterse> According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_chronometry the average response time is much higher
<yorickpeterse> Hm, I wonder where I came up with those numbers
<t4nk252> But that mostly limits the AI to the processing speed, not the languages.
<yorickpeterse> Yes, but Ruby's processing speed is higher compared to other languages
<yorickpeterse> To be honest, for hobby projects it's fine
<yorickpeterse> but if you intend to build Skynet, maybe not so much
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<t4nk252> Or the Matrix.
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<t4nk252> By the way, do I have to add an ! after choice = gets.chomp.downcase ?
<yorickpeterse> No
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<yorickpeterse> The ! ("bang") is usually used when a method modifies the object it belongs to
<yorickpeterse> e.g.
<yorickpeterse> >> name = "Ruby"; name.downcase!; name
<eval-in_> yorickpeterse => "ruby" (https://eval.in/200398)
<yorickpeterse> >> name = "Ruby"; name.downcase; name
<eval-in_> yorickpeterse => "Ruby" (https://eval.in/200400)
<yorickpeterse> or
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<yorickpeterse> >> numbers = [10, 20, 30]; numbers.reject! { |val| val > 20 }; numbers
<eval-in_> yorickpeterse => [10, 20] (https://eval.in/200401)
<yorickpeterse> >> numbers = [10, 20, 30]; numbers.reject { |val| val > 20 }; numbers
<eval-in_> yorickpeterse => [10, 20, 30] (https://eval.in/200402)
<akahn> is there a way to set socket options on the socket used by Net::SMTP?
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<t4nk252> yorickpeterse: That's what I thought too.
<t4nk252> Damm guys, do you all write eachothers names, or is there a reply function I've missed?
<yorickpeterse> t4nk252: most clients have tab completion
<yorickpeterse> so in my case I just do t4[TAB]
<t4nk252> Oh my Ruby, that is fantastic!
<t4nk252> Is there some alternative to irc.lc?
<t4nk252> Correction: Some alternative you recommend. (Of course there are alternatives)
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<yorickpeterse> weechat/irssi are terminal clients, there's also https://www.irccloud.com/
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<t4nk252> Is there any good method to add a GUI to a Ruby program?
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<centrx> t4nk252, Ruby Shoes is one
<t4nk252> Do you recommend it?
<centrx> t4nk252, Shoes is simple and straightforward and produces nice results, but it does not have the power of e.g. binding to QT
<centrx> which is one of the ones on that list
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<t4nk252> Hmm, nice. LOgo could be better, though. Needs more gems...
<centrx> t4nk252, the logo looks like it consciously reflects a certain art style that has a name I don't remember
<centrx> faded neon look
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