fflush changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 1.9.3-p194: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste > 3 lines of text on pastebin.com
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<chare>
So what options do I have for my rails app
<chare>
is heroku the only serious choice?
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<zelrik>
hm
<zelrik>
is this the channel for Rails too?
<chare>
CLOSE enough
<zelrik>
I am asking if there is a dedicated channel to rails
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<chare>
zelrik you gonna answer my question?
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<zelrik>
no
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<chare>
why not
<zelrik>
I dont think heroku is the only choice
<zelrik>
My company is not using it
<zelrik>
and they use ruby on rails
<zelrik>
not sure what they use yet though
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<chare>
wtf you work at a company and you don't know anything about your company?
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<zelrik>
chare: so what
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<n_blownapart>
hi I have some questions about scope in this beginner's prog. thanks: http://pastie.org/4541999
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<n_blownapart>
my first would be why can't line 10 be entirely in the dog_years= method def? ^^
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<chare>
zelrik so go look up what your company does
<banisterfiend>
n_blownapart: you mean multiplying by 7?
<banisterfiend>
it can
<zelrik>
chare: dont tell me what to do, I just started
<chare>
so you about to get fired?
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<zelrik>
lol
<banisterfiend>
n_blownapart: def dog_years=(years); @dog_years = years * 7; end
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<chare>
first day on the job and already getting fired?
<arooni-mobile>
hi folks; im trying to reconstruct a HTTP POST request im looking at in firebug. i see vars like: csstandard_request:true, dataonly:false, type:json.... and then encoded_data. .... 1) is encoded data = POST's body? 2) what are these other vars and how can i set them?
<zelrik>
chare: why should I get fired
<n_blownapart>
banisterfiend: thanks for replying. well I meant the whole line, since the setter method requires self explicitly.
<chare>
zelrik you can't figure stuff out
<shachaf>
banisterfiend: Huh?
<banisterfiend>
n_blownapart: what do u mean?
<shachaf>
banisterfiend: That function is weird. foo.dog_years = 5 should set @dog_years to 35?
<zelrik>
chare: you were the one asking question, so stfu
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<banisterfiend>
n_blownapart: what do u mean?
<n_blownapart>
banisterfiend: its private, so I guess the calculation has to be done in age= , where dog_years= gets called . I don't know frankly its confusing.
<chare>
zelrik so you gonna look it up
<banisterfiend>
oh isee
<banisterfiend>
n_blownapart: what you have currently is fine i think
<zelrik>
look up what?
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<n_blownapart>
not the calculation, but the whole line. I tried to put line 10 in def age=(years) and the output was just a blank gap.
<n_blownapart>
banisterfiend: ^^
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<n_blownapart>
sorry correction banisterfiend in def dog_years=
<chare>
why you being so resistant zelrik
<n_blownapart>
the output was Bart is in dog years. banisterfiend
<banisterfiend>
n_blownapart: no idea what u're talking about sorry
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<n_blownapart>
banisterfiend: my question is since it's private anyway why cant the calculation on self be done in the scope of the dog_years definition.
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<banisterfiend>
n_blownapart: what did u have in mind
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<n_blownapart>
ie why is dog_years set with the simple math down in def age=, instead of in dog_years= ?
<n_blownapart>
banisterfiend: 66
<n_blownapart>
so banisterfiend I don't understand the rules of scope here enough to see the difference in where to have line 10
<banisterfiend>
n_blownapart: u could do it either way i guess
<banisterfiend>
it's nothing to do with scope
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<banisterfiend>
it's just about where you decide to put the functionalithy
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<n_blownapart>
but I tried to put line 10 on line 6, and the 70 (the age in dog years) was just missing and there was a literal gap.
<n_blownapart>
banisterfiend: ^^
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<n_blownapart>
in the output there was a gap, that is..... banisterfiend
<banisterfiend>
n_blownapart: you cant put line 10 on line 6
<banisterfiend>
it'll cause an infinite loop
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<banisterfiend>
cos you're calling dog_years= inside dog_years=
<banisterfiend>
n_blownapart: just put the calculation there: @dog_years = years * 7
<n_blownapart>
ok thanks banisterfiend I'll try it.
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<yoklov>
is there a better way to write `some_file.each_line.to_a.join ''`
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<banisterfiend>
yoklov: what is some_file ? a string?
<yoklov>
nope
<yoklov>
an actual file
<banisterfiend>
yoklov: Files dont support each_line afaik
<yoklov>
hrm.
<yoklov>
it has been working?
<yoklov>
well, it did with STDIN
<banisterfiend>
oh they do
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<banisterfiend>
yoklov: then do this instead; File.readlines(file_name).join(" ")
<yoklov>
hm. I don't need the space, but okay.
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<n_blownapart>
banisterfiend: yeah when I try it like so, I get the same gap in the output: http://pastie.org/4541999
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<insecurlex>
n_blownapart: I think you are using wrong your instance variables, you could try with this http://pastie.org/4542184
<adurity>
chare: the same reason some languages call functions methods and vice versa
<davidcelis>
chare: a proc
<yoklov>
i thought not all blocks are procs
<Banistergalaxy>
Yoklov buy a book
<Banistergalaxy>
Or I beat yo candy ass
<n_blownapart>
I heard in ruby procs are rarely used. the advice to me was to focus on blocks while learning ruby.
<yoklov>
why
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<RubyPanther>
Blocks are all procs, even if you pass a lambda as a block it is still a proc. So they are constantly used. And they're not called closures because we're usually not using them for functional-style programming and that they are closures is just a detail. The point is that they are object-encapsulated blocks of code.
<yoklov>
n_blownapart: blocks have literals. last i checked, the way you make procs is by Proc.new {a block…}
<RubyPanther>
def foo(&block); puts block.class end ; foo {"omg"}
<RubyPanther>
Proc
<n_blownapart>
yoklov: I don't know the distinctions are subtle so I'm told.
<TTilus>
so dont focus on the distinction, focus on how to use them efficiently
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<yoklov>
yeah, it certainly seems that way
<RubyPanther>
I would say really the one thing to focus on is strict OOP and having really really short methods that do 1 thing
<yoklov>
there's also the whole method(sym) and lambda(&block) thing that always trips me up
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<yoklov>
focus on having pure functions that manipulate data
<RubyPanther>
lambdas are almost never needed, way over-used, and method(sym) is a special case thing for metaprogramming and you should not be metaprogramming often
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<yoklov>
oh wait there are too many function types for that to be plesant okay go back to the oo thing
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<RubyPanther>
That is disgusting
<RubyPanther>
beyond words
<yoklov>
haha
<yoklov>
of course!
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<TTilus>
oh my eyes!
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<TTilus>
wtf is that turd?
<yoklov>
a self-modifying ruby script
<RubyPanther>
If you use OOP you wouldn't have to eval at all, you would just say send(:foo)
<yoklov>
ruby scriptname.rb edit newfn
<yoklov>
editor opens up
<yoklov>
type in function def
<TTilus>
...with no excuse for its existence
<arooni-mobile>
how do i view the documentation for a particular gem? i already tried running gem_server but i dont think its installed
<yoklov>
save close
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<yoklov>
then run the script again with args for your function
<yoklov>
and voila, it runs it
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<yoklov>
its like a big quine.
<TTilus>
AARGH!
<yoklov>
the eval isn't really necessary, just saves having to have two copies of everythin.
<RubyPanther>
That is not a quine
<TTilus>
use pry instead
<TTilus>
:)
<yoklov>
RubyPanther: it is, actually.
<chare>
I want "Go on rails" so i can stop using ruby
<yoklov>
run it with args `cat cat`
<yoklov>
or `cat bootstrap`
<yoklov>
oh, wait
<wmoxam>
chare: go write it :p
<yoklov>
well, it rewrites itself to itself every time
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<yoklov>
e.g. the line `File.open $0, 'w' do |f|`
<chare>
wmoxam: so you agree that ruby sucks shit?
<RubyPanther>
I even like go, but I vote boot the troll
<wmoxam>
chare: cute
<yoklov>
chare, i remember you were trolling on #go a month or so ago
<yoklov>
err, #go-nuts
<yoklov>
about COM objects
<chare>
wrong person
<yoklov>
uh-huh.
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<chare>
what are COM objects
<TTilus>
gg
<yoklov>
RubyPanther: either way, it depends what you want to do with your code. If you're interested in writing sane, maintainable code, then by all means, stay away from eval and metaprogramming, and _certainly_ self-modifying scripts.
<yoklov>
but i'm in it for the pathological and bizarre
<RubyPanther>
COM objects are something dirty that grandpa does, ask again in 5 years
<wmoxam>
yoklov: that's the _why spirit!
<RubyPanther>
No, there is no reason to stay away from meta-programming, it is just not something that you should do often
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<RubyPanther>
_why's code didn't have useless uses of eval or a bunch of procedural crap, his code is clean and good
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<yoklov>
err
<chare>
yoklov: can you get me unmuted in the go-nuts channel
<yoklov>
actually read my code
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<RubyPanther>
_why's C code is properly procedural, and his Ruby is properly OO
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<wmoxam>
RubyPanther: I thought he advocated writing 'fun' code occationally
<wmoxam>
ie: fuck the rules
<wmoxam>
:p
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<yoklov>
the OO way for this involves not having a script modify itself
<jrxiii>
I wouldn't fuck the rules unless I was sure I'm the only eng who'll ever touch that code
<wmoxam>
jrxiii: that was the idea
<yoklov>
actually, basically every programming paradigm says that's a bad idea
<jrxiii>
then go for it
<jrxiii>
lol
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<RubyPanther>
Why would bad code be fun?
<jrxiii>
what engineers do behind closed doors...
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<wmoxam>
RubyPanther: that's assuming 'bad' is a constant
<wmoxam>
RubyPanther: ever heard of ruby golf?
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<RubyPanther>
_why would have fun by writing clean beautiful code that was also whimsical, not just awful procedural nonsense pretending to be Ruby
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<wmoxam>
RubyPanther: or the ioccc?
<wmoxam>
ok, obviously we are having different conversations here
<RubyPanther>
code golf is a game with a clear goal, it is not writing the code poorly just for the heck of it
<yoklov>
RubyPanther, really, did you actually read my code or did you see 1 global and 5 uses of eval and immediately puke
<yoklov>
because it seems like the latter
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<RubyPanther>
You do know it is not even OO, right?
<yoklov>
who the fuck cares?
<jrxiii>
I missed the link. I wanna see the code!
<RubyPanther>
You should, or why would you have picked Ruby over Perl?"
<yoklov>
RubyPanther: i picked ruby because it's more modern, and supports functional programming better, which i have a background in.
<RubyPanther>
Larry Wall said that if you want to write all your code using OOP then Ruby is better than Perl... and he then launched a defense of proceduralism and talked about why Perl is great at that... And I agree. If you don't want strict OO, use Perl.
<yoklov>
OO is nice, but it's not the only way to solve a problem.
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<RubyPanther>
Ruby isn't any more modern than Perl except in that Perl is more post-modern.
<Realtor>
is there a ruby job channel
<wmoxam>
RubyPanther: you always use all your tools as god intented eh?
<wmoxam>
Realtor: no
<jrxiii>
yokolov: OMG what were you thinking?!
<Realtor>
wmoxam: thanks
<jrxiii>
I rarely see anything that ugly.
<RubyPanther>
Often there is a clear difference between tools and if you want to swing the tool in a certain way, one of the tools is clearly designed for it and effective for it
<jrxiii>
And I see a LOT of bad ruby code.
<yoklov>
jrxiii: I was wondering if i could write a self-modifying script that could store data i entered in at the command line for me
<wmoxam>
RubyPanther: I don't see it being clear in this case
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<wmoxam>
Ruby is a perfectly usable tool in this case
<RubyPanther>
The only thing I've seen that was uglier, I had to write a code generator just to manage it... http://stuff.rubypanther.com/perl.rb
<jrxiii>
that is the beauty of ruby. Like jazz, it'll encompass just about anything people want to do to it and stay Ruby.
<RubyPanther>
That is nonsense, if you say it twice once with "Ruby" and once with "Perl" then choose which one it applies to more. And that is Perl.
<yoklov>
try it: save it anywhere, and run `ruby script_name.rb set foo` then some data, then ^D. you can then get that data back by doing `ruby script_name.rb cat foo`
<wmoxam>
RubyPanther: just because it doesn't appeal to your idea of what Ruby should look like? Come on. That's ridiculous
<yoklov>
right now it doesn't really let you define functions without manually placing another eval in $data['code'], unfortunately, but i just started it like 3 hours ago
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<RubyPanther>
Ruby explicitly rejects both the notion that there is only one way that should be allowed, but also that all ways are equal and subjective. There is usually a "correct" way, and it should be done that way unless there is a _reason_ not to, and there should only be a small number of ways to do things... enough to cover the real use cases with one correct way for each case
<RubyPanther>
If it is procedural, that is not "my" notion.
<jrxiii>
ha. That's bold yokolov. I don't make time for this kind of thing.
<yoklov>
honestly it's pretty short to even be considered procedural
<RubyPanther>
once you got to doing two things, it was already long!
<yoklov>
less than 50 lines, real huge
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<RubyPanther>
And it does a wrong list of things, that is the very definition of procedural... a list of instructions
<wmoxam>
yoklov: watch out, the coding standard commitee of Oregon is on your case
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<jrxiii>
self modifying script to store data you entered in the command line for you? can i get a use case?
<wmoxam>
yoklov: they may knock at your dorr and threaten to confenscate your computer
<yoklov>
well
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<yoklov>
i can also add function definitions
<yoklov>
but right now you have to add another eval
<yoklov>
for each function
<yoklov>
i was about to fix that
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<wmoxam>
jrxiii: and he hasn't even submitted a budget projection! The nerve!
<RubyPanther>
You could probably cut the LOC in half just making it OO
<yoklov>
it can also already edit them in a text editor
<yoklov>
RubyPanther: uh-huh.
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<davidcelis>
wish I could use Heroku to run a ruby script that's not a sinatra or rails app
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<jrxiii>
I'm just wondering what problem he's solving
<yoklov>
RubyPanther: realize that this script has to be able to spit out every piece of data in it each time.
<jrxiii>
it seems like the problem is that he has too much time on his hands
<yoklov>
^
<wmoxam>
davidcelis: does it have to be either? I was under the impression that it runs rack apps
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<wmoxam>
jrxiii: the horror
<jrxiii>
I wish I had that problem
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<RubyPanther>
You could also use a data store for that.
<jrxiii>
I'm jealous
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<yoklov>
… :/
<davidcelis>
wmoxam: it's not a rack app either, not a web app at all
<yoklov>
'use a data store'
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<wmoxam>
jrxiii: I played SC2 tonight instead of being a productive citizen
<chare>
sc2 > call of duty
<wmoxam>
I should be throw in the gulag or somthing
<jrxiii>
I play games every day
<chare>
sc2 > halo
<davidcelis>
wmoxam: i literally wanna just have heroku do `ruby afile.rb` and let it run foreverever
<yoklov>
jrxiii: it's a random idea, and i'm seeing how far i can take it.
<yoklov>
maybe I can learn something from it.
<wmoxam>
I paid for an account there a long time back
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<yoklov>
something, you know, actually usable
<RubyPanther>
it bothers me in the same way it would bother me if somebody went up to an "open mic" and pounded randomly on a coffee can without attempting to make music, and then complained that people booed.
<wmoxam>
forgotten the password long ago though, lol
<jrxiii>
you have to know something about ruby to get it to happen, more power to you
<RubyPanther>
not the end of the world, but a legitimate teachable moment
<wmoxam>
RubyPanther: I didn't realize this was a performance space where people paid addmission to get in
<jrxiii>
I think your time would be better spent reading the c code for ruby itself.
<wmoxam>
:p
<yoklov>
haha
<yoklov>
funny you should say that
<jrxiii>
open mic is free until you buy coffee
<RubyPanther>
Why would paying money have anything to do with it? That implies a whole bunch of politics that is not actually the consensus.
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<davidcelis>
"Any illegal activities which includes, but certainly isn't limited to spamming, portflooding, portscanning, irc bots or unattended processes intended as a bot, encryption cracking, unauthorised connections to remote hosts and any sort of scam can really not be tolerated here."
<davidcelis>
since when are IRC bots illegal
<jrxiii>
open mic, like heroku, is free if your time is worthless
<yoklov>
i've been trying to get a garbage collector working in c lately, and i decided to give up for a bit and write some weird code.
<wmoxam>
davidcelis: oh, you want an IRC bot
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<jrxiii>
yoklov: you have succeeded
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<davidcelis>
wmoxam: yeaaah
<davidcelis>
wmoxam: :P
<RubyPanther>
davidcelis: It doesn't say IRC bots are illegal, it is just a poorly worded sentence.
<RubyPanther>
Portscanning is also not illegal, nor are unattended processes (thankfully)
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<jrxiii>
who here does ruby 85-100% of their professional day?
<yoklov>
jrxiii: yeah. unfortunately, i still have no clue what is wrong with my garbage collector, if anything, or if I'm just forgetting to protect a temporary somewhere which is causing the segfaults.
<RubyPanther>
I do, as long as Ruby extensions in C count.
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<davidcelis>
jrxiii: Yes
<yoklov>
obviously, more weird ruby code is the solution to my problem,
<yoklov>
obviously, more weird ruby code is the solution to my problem.
<wmoxam>
jrxiii: yup
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<yoklov>
err, whoops.
<jrxiii>
right on, I always wonder.
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<yoklov>
anyway, i'm out. night all.
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<RubyPanther>
You could at least do something interesting like embed the user code inside classes
<jrxiii>
So, anyone interested in moving to SF Bay to do ruby for a well-funded location-based games studio? I'm looking for awesome rubyists.
<jrxiii>
yoklov is officially excluded from the above
<RubyPanther>
is "SF Bay" code for that brown valley south of the bay?
<davidcelis>
jrxiii: hahaha
<jrxiii>
Mountain View is beautiful right now, if that matters.
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<RubyPanther>
There is no mountain visible from Mountain View, just a few dry ridgelines.
<jrxiii>
I cycle through Portola Valley and Woodside to San Gregorio and Pescadero and it's quite green.
<jrxiii>
the coastal range is, well, tall enough to challenge me as I ride up them
<jrxiii>
lol
<jrxiii>
East bay isn't very green, that's for sure
<RubyPanther>
being tall doesn't make a mountain, rising higher than the stuff to the sides of it does ;)
<jrxiii>
right on, I've seen mntns for sure. Definitely not the pyranees
<RubyPanther>
If you're from somewhere south of there, it probably does really seem green, though if you're from anywhere between SF and the arctic sea it looks dead and brown
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<jrxiii>
I love inland oregon. Montana is wonderful.
<jrxiii>
Alaska is super lush
<jrxiii>
But I've lived in SoCal… omg talkinbout brown!
<jrxiii>
Air you can chew...
<jrxiii>
dat ish cray
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<chare>
Lets talk about heroku
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<chare>
anyone there?
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<chare>
anyone there?
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<chare>
explain what youmean
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<chare>
you guys are all dumb?
<davidcelis>
yep, we're all dumb
<davidcelis>
it can't be that we are busy people and don't look at the IRC window every five seconds
<davidcelis>
we must just be stupid
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<banisterfiend>
davidcelis: sup dave
<davidcelis>
banisterfiend: oh you know
<davidcelis>
banisterfiend: being super dumb n stuff
<davidcelis>
how bout you
<chare>
you both stupid?
<banisterfiend>
davidcelis: trying to organize the pry plugin system a bit
<davidcelis>
chare: Sir, I do believe that if I were approached and told that this channel contained only one stupid people, I would make the estimate that it were you. I would stake money on that estimate.
<davidcelis>
banisterfiend: what's wrong with the way it is?
<davidcelis>
chare: i haven't read the entire rails implementation either
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<banisterfiend>
davidcelis: haha, you actually use exception explorer? which ones do u use often e?
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<davidcelis>
chare: but when i want to know how something its doing works, i read the code
<davidcelis>
chare: you wanna have a real discussion bro, or you just wanna bitch some more?
<davidcelis>
banisterfiend: i use doc and coolline most
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<banisterfiend>
davidcelis: cool, stack_explorer at all?
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<davidcelis>
sometimes, mostly to see whats up with the rails stack
<davidcelis>
rails stack is pretty big
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<banisterfiend>
Yeah
<banisterfiend>
cool
<banisterfiend>
glad someone is using it :))
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<chare>
Go > Ruby
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<charliesome>
chare: welcome to #ruby
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<chare>
charliesome: so you agree with me?
<davidcelis>
chare: i dont think there is any reason for you to be here anymore
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<charliesome>
chare: i haven't used go enough to form an opinion, but keeping in mind that this is #ruby, i'm not sure many people would appreciate you telling us how much better go is
<y2k>
like, why fat girls use bikini...
<chare>
tour.golang.org/
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<shevy>
chare usually you would use an argument but you gave none
<chare>
shevy: I'm waiting for you to back me up
<shevy>
chare without arguments? you can make any statement
<shevy>
Ruby > Go
<chare>
you're suppose to fill in the gaps in my argument
<shevy>
and it'll be valid just as well
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<shevy>
chare come on man. give a little bit more than zero
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<chare>
shevy: have you used go?
<shevy>
no
<chare>
WTF
<shevy>
I have ruby. Why would I need go?
<charliesome>
chare: i think #go-nuts might be a better place for you than here
<eridani>
go: lack of exceptions leads to inconsistent error reporting and often the loss of the original error. can't use fork reliably with goroutines. wtf? reliably daemonization is impossible - will require special cases just for one common task
<davidcelis>
go sux
<charliesome>
eridani: don't forget the conservative gc
<eridani>
now take that to go and bring the results back to us if you're bored
<davidcelis>
see i can make blanket statements too! that's fun
<y2k>
:/
<y2k>
guys!
<y2k>
this is just irc, and a #ruby channel. relax! :x
<chare>
you guys using ruby on rails on the heroku platform?
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<shevy>
chare you asked this before
<chare>
you guys in for a surprise, heroku RUNS ON GO
<chare>
LOLOLOLO
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<shevy>
chare fascinating
<RubyPanther>
Go doesn't compete with Ruby, it competes with mRuby. And they are both awesome!
<charliesome>
RubyPanther: does go even compete with mruby?
<eridani>
by runs on go i assume you mean doozerd? one application?
<charliesome>
i see go and (m)ruby as having separate use cases
<davidcelis>
chare: another reason not to use heroku
<chare>
eridani: you mad that heroku is using go?
<RubyPanther>
They have separate best use cases, that is the closest I can get to your wording. ;)
<chare>
davidcelis: so what you using instead of heroku?
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<davidcelis>
chare: a real server
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<chare>
davidcelis: you using amazon ec2?
<davidcelis>
chare: learn to UNIX
<davidcelis>
chare: for big apps at work, sure. linode for my own small projects
<RubyPanther>
Heroku charges a 40% premium just for automated handholding.
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<chare>
rubypanther: what are the price comparisons?
<bambanx>
hey
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<charliesome>
if you're willing to type a few commands to install nginx and ruby, you can save a huge amount by doing it on your own server
<chare>
does linode have anything free?
<RubyPanther>
chare: Heroku is just EC2 + renamed capistrano + markup, except they keep the savings when you need to scale depending on time of day.
<charliesome>
a friend and i bought a dedicated server from hetzner, installed kvm on it and run our own 'cloud servers'.
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<charliesome>
24gb of ram, intel i7 980x, $80 per month
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<chare>
so I need something FREE
<chare>
what are my options
<RubyPanther>
linode does free stuff, but not in the same way. My first experience with them was as a free user during the 2007 Rails Rumble, and I've been a paying customer ever since
<charliesome>
chare: heroku's free service is alright for small-time stuff
<chare>
ok how do I do heroku + voltdb
<chare>
i don't want to use piece of shit postgresql
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<charliesome>
chare: i'd love to know what you have against pgsql
<RubyPanther>
Postgres is the best RDBMS there is, better than the commercial ones. And the only one that lets you write triggers in Ruby.
<chare>
voltdb > postgresql
<charliesome>
but if you're after a free server, there's ec2's shitty free offering
<eridani>
do not feed the troll /ignore cshare
<charliesome>
apart from that, i don't see companies lining up to give free servers to cheapskates
<chare>
do you guys even know what voltdb is?
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<eridani>
volt hodls everything in memory. hope you don't have a lot of data
<RubyPanther>
Fun fact: VoltDB 2.5 is 37% buzzwords.
<chare>
what do you mean by 37% buzzwords
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<chare>
I'm trying to get a system using "rails + voltdb + neo4j"
<chare>
do i want amazon or linode or something else?
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<Tobsn>
voltdb is actually neat
<chare>
elaborate
<Tobsn>
what i think is buzzword right now is memsql
<Tobsn>
and always was couchdb
<RubyPanther>
Only you can know what you want. You already want stuff that sucks for you, like a database designed for companies with lots of money for hw that have exceeded a regular DBs performance capacity... on a free cheapskate server.
<chare>
isn't memsql competing in the same space as voltdb?
<Tobsn>
pretty much
<RubyPanther>
Oh they are more buzzword savvy they are NewSQL
<Tobsn>
but memsql set up this cutsy story about how they are so smart and so cool
<Tobsn>
theres a video and all
<eridani>
In voltdb every request is serialised through each partition of the database. This means that if you have one partition (i.e. a single server),
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<eridani>
each database request will be run sequentially, with no parallelism at all. If you have partitioned data, then requests that affect different individual partitions
<eridani>
may run in parallel, however any multi-partition requests must be run against the entire cluster on their own.
<chare>
the in-memory database is crowded now, i know there are much more than voltdb and memsql i just can't remember the names
<Tobsn>
oh i also love when people compare redis with mongodb - not buzzword but the comparison just blows my mind
<Tobsn>
as far as i heard from friends who run massive dbs they love membase...
<Tobsn>
like... LOVE it
<chare>
eridani: voltdb is meant for oltp where a request doesn't hit the entire database
<eridani>
performance is likely to tank if you try to run any complex queries on the system. Any long running, multi-partition query will block all other users of the database until it completes, which means that the system is only suitable for simple OLTP applications, with well thought out data structures. Don't be tempted to sneak any reports into your apps!
<RubyPanther>
Rubyists use Redis when they want fast access to data and don't need database features
<Tobsn>
well for that you use memcache
<Tobsn>
and load it on first request
<Tobsn>
redis has only the queue benefit and lately now also pubsub
<Tobsn>
but key/value, why use redis if you can just use memcache
<charliesome>
chare: voltdb sucks because it doesn't allow me to leverage the efficiencies of the distributed scalable hyperflux paradigm
<eridani>
If you want to change the schema on voltdb just shut down every server and wait for it to serialize it's memory store to disk, reconfigure the catalog, then start the server on each node and wait while it loads everything into memory
<charliesome>
chare: and if you even THINK about reticulating splines on that thing, then you're in for a bad day!
<chare>
ok so whats the difference between postgresql and mysql
<RubyPanther>
Tobsn: nope. Different problem space. Memcache is volatile, it is wrong to compare it to a data store. It is just a cache. Actually in many cases I have memcached in front of redis in front of postgres.
<Tobsn>
so why redis?
<Tobsn>
you just if the memcache get and if not you fetch it from db and store it for a day
<chare>
ok so then if i change my plan to "rails + postgresql + neo4j" are you guys going to approve
<chare>
or shoot my plan down again
<Tobsn>
no need to use redis if you dont use pubsub or queues
<Tobsn>
chare, why not mongo? ;)
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<eridani>
mongo has the same single thread problem as voltdb
<chare>
isn't mongo meant for a completely different problem space?
<eridani>
one long running read query stops all other activity
<Tobsn>
hu?
<Tobsn>
you sure about that?
<RubyPanther>
Because memcached runs on every node and redis runs on each group of nodes
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<eridani>
i am sure as of version 2.0
<Tobsn>
i have long running map reduces
<Tobsn>
but they never locked anything
<RubyPanther>
But in this case postgres is actually considered a backup
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<chare>
how does postgresql implement changing the schema without down time?
<RubyPanther>
Why would there be down time?
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<eridani>
are you sharded? do you have read replicas in each shard? each shard is independent
<Tobsn>
ah
<Tobsn>
yes
<eridani>
and slaves can handle reads while writes go to the master of each shard
<Tobsn>
4 shards, each shard is 3 replicaset
<eridani>
if you specify read from slave for each query
<Tobsn>
yes i do
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<Tobsn>
well then this is explained
<Tobsn>
ah seems like 10gen is working on the concurrency problem as of 2.0
<eridani>
i am wrong about threading on 2.0. it was that way back in 1.8
<Tobsn>
yep
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<eridani>
multi readers are allowed but 1 writer blocks everything else
<shevy>
"abc"-"a" NoMethodError: undefined method `-' for "abc":String
<shevy>
:(
<Tobsn>
when i started with 1.4, it sucked horrible... i commited a lot of bugs directly - up until 1.8 it was very sucky esp sharding
<charliesome>
can someone enlighten me on why mongo is actually useful
<chare>
eridani: explain to me how postgresql implements schema changes without downtime so I know I should dump voltdb
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<Tobsn>
map reduce on a single box: 4sec - same map reduce on any size of shard with any type of replication: >50 sec
<Tobsn>
there were so many bugs in the sharding etc. - but thats all gone since 1.8
<eridani>
for mongo you can store any nested data structure as a row in your db without creating a fixed schema
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<Tobsn>
not only any nested data structure, any type of fields... there is no restrictions of what fields have to be in a collection and which not... i have one collection where i just pump in raw impression data, all fields are different. at the end a mongodb background process aggregates the data into separate collections
<eridani>
in postgresql every command uses mvcc. you can roll back in the middle several schema changes or commit them
<Tobsn>
but isnt that by default off?
<charliesome>
can't you just stick a string of json in a column in a regular db
<eridani>
during which readers are not blocked unless you've specified ???serializable??? in your configuration
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<charliesome>
if you want to query by anything then just reify that into a real column
<Tobsn>
charliesome, can you run complex map reduce on that string?
<charliesome>
Tobsn: yes, but you'd do it outside of your db
<eridani>
???serializable??? = transaction isolation level serializable (i think)
<Tobsn>
postgres supports json datatypes, so yes you could... but then why not just use couchdb/mongo (and dont use couch)
<eridani>
mongodb let's you index sub sub sub objects for fast queries. i don't think that's implemented in postgresql json
<eridani>
there is no perfect database with every feature
<Tobsn>
yeah thats not implemented
<Tobsn>
charliesome, that just made no sense hehe
<charliesome>
hmm i didn't realise mongo let you index deeply into objects
<eridani>
and the mongodb types are richer than plain json types. you have native dates and datetimes
<chare>
eridani: since postgresql is row store order on disk how does changing the schema fix everything on disk for a huge database?
<charliesome>
that's kinda useful i guess
<Tobsn>
if you do it outside your db, then just use memcached or sqlite
<charliesome>
still: mongo seems like it has a narrow use case
<Tobsn>
charliesome, also you have native geo fields
<charliesome>
people tend to use it as a rdbms replacement
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<Tobsn>
nah its awesome. i dropped mysql and postgres in end of 2008 for it... never looked back.
<eridani>
the schema change may take a while to run depending on data size but you can still query the database while it's running. is that what you were asking?
<Tobsn>
(after using mysql/postgres for over 9 years in small to big installments)
<chare>
eridani: so you're saying it just starts rewriting the whole database, but in a way thats safe to undo
<eridani>
mongo has significantly better write throughput at the expense of durability when compared to mysql/postgresql
<eridani>
csharE: that's the effect but i'm not sure of the implementation details
<chare>
erdiani: so if something bad durability wise happens to mongo, what are you suppose to do?
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<eridani>
i had mongo break on me with version 1.6. i had to break the cluster and recreate it to fix it
<eridani>
but that's not the durability problem i was talking about
<Tobsn>
durability in what sense?
<Tobsn>
how to make it more reliable?
<eridani>
writes aren't commited to disk immediately. you can lose some data during a power outage
<Tobsn>
ah yeah
<Tobsn>
the not acid compliant issue
<Tobsn>
well... honestly, this never happens
<Tobsn>
unless you unplug the server
<Tobsn>
we're running it currently as third party provider on a tracking system which also tracks simple page loads and impressions and it peaks to a few hundred thousand inserts a second
<Tobsn>
and if we compare access logs with raw inserts, they match up
<eridani>
and before you guys ask about another database i also managed to break riak in an unfixable way but otherwise it worked very well
<Tobsn>
never lost data so far
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<Tobsn>
chare, cool is too that you can just add servers and it will balance in the background
<chare>
mongodb is declared as a document db, what does it mean to be a "document db" what are the different requirements that necessitate a dedicated document database
<eridani>
you shouldn't lose data due to high load. you just get long running queries
<Tobsn>
(it slows down the db a bit)
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<Tobsn>
hehe
<Tobsn>
okay, he's all yours.
<Tobsn>
time for coffee.
<chare>
Tobsn: what cool what?
<eridani>
cshare: i suggest you read some of the basic tutorials on mongodb.org
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<eridani>
they'll explain the basics
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<Tobsn>
chare, in general mongodb doesnt work much different than sql
<Tobsn>
from your perspective its pretty much the same
<Tobsn>
just that you never have to define a table
<Tobsn>
and you can scale without trying to shoot yourself
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<chare>
I'm not understanding why they threw away acid to scale, aren't there these other databases like voltdb and memsql that retain sql but try to scale by a better implementation
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<Tobsn>
acid != scaling
<chare>
retain acid
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<Tobsn>
acid is also not necessary
<Tobsn>
its performance vs. quality assurance
<chare>
but why give it up if you don't have to
<Tobsn>
you have to
<Tobsn>
to make those fast inserts possible
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<chare>
ok so is mongodb meant to attack the problem of docs.google.com?
<eridani>
the sql standard requires acid to be sql compliant
<eridani>
you can have acid without sql
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<Tobsn>
chare ACID - the last D is durability, which mongodb does not do but you can turn that on with journaling which makes mongodb much slower.
<Tobsn>
so it does it but you will lose speed for the D
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<Tobsn>
and as to "docs" - just ignore that term
<eridani>
synchronous writes are necessary for durability but seriously harm performance
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<Tobsn>
imagine mysql without the need to define a table
<eridani>
and with nested tables
<chare>
you mean like semistructured xml?
<Tobsn>
yes, and you would be able to store an array or objects within a field
<eridani>
with data typed fields
<eridani>
not just plain xml
<chare>
OK NEW TOPIC: whats the difference between neo4j and titan
<eridani>
you also give up joins, foreign keys, data volidation, stored procedures, triggers, default values and lots more
<eridani>
that was for mongodb
<Tobsn>
like {name: 'chare', address: [ street: 'somewhere', zip: 12345 ], male: true } - and then you would say find( { address.zip: 12345 } );
<eridani>
a lot
<Tobsn>
hehe titan
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<eridani>
i did test out neo4j a long time ago. it was very fast but only single machine at the time
<chare>
so if you start getting big you're screwed with neo4j?
<Tobsn>
chare, you know what you should do? get on a 256mb ram rackspace cloud node with ubuntu or debian and just install those dbs
<eridani>
titan is based on distributed db's
<chare>
i heard it can't shard with neo4j
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<eridani>
i don't know about neo4j anymore. haven't looked in years
<chare>
wtf eridani you failing me as a database expert
<Tobsn>
lol
<Tobsn>
well there is just not much use for neo4j or titan
<eridani>
i'm surprised you asked me about something i don't have detailed notes on
<eridani>
it's a graph database
<Tobsn>
thats like cassandra... its a really neat idea but dont try to use it.
<eridani>
if you want to calculate friends of friends of friends of friends it can do it very quickly
<chare>
wtf how are key value stores and graph databases not useful
<eridani>
try doing that in postgresql sometimes with 10m users
<eridani>
you probably don't want a graph database
<eridani>
it's special purpose
<Tobsn>
chare, key value is very useful - but do you personally have a use for a serious graph db?
<eridani>
like a keyword search database
<chare>
my data is a graph so I'm using a graph database
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<chare>
graph of chess positions
<Tobsn>
so then go find out how neo and titan works
<Tobsn>
and update eridanis notes
<chare>
what do i use instead of a graph then?
<Tobsn>
i dont know if thats a "graph" as in for a graph db
<chare>
each position has a variable number of positions connected to it
<chare>
its not structured like a schema
<eridani>
start with what you want to store and then list every type of thing you want to find and then start building the quereies for each of those things
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<chare>
and so i should use a graph db over sql right?
<Tobsn>
store it in python
<Tobsn>
it supports matrixes
<Tobsn>
;)
<chare>
next random topic:
<chare>
how do i do bitcoin stuff in the cloud without getting hacked
<Tobsn>
lol
<Tobsn>
with magic man
<chare>
do you know what bitcoin is?
<Tobsn>
fucking magic.
<Tobsn>
no never heard of bitcoin
<eridani>
are you storing a current list of positions, 1 game, every famous game, or every possible game?
<Tobsn>
is it a graph db?
<Tobsn>
;)
<chare>
every position of every game i can get my hand on
<Tobsn>
chare, softlayer boxes have two interfaces. turn off the public.
<chare>
Tobsn: i do not understand what is softlayer
<eridani>
i need to go
<Tobsn>
yeah me too
<chare>
you tell that girlfriend no
<chare>
tell her no
<eridani>
she says no
<eridani>
i don't listen
<eridani>
bye
<Tobsn>
bye
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<Guest71417>
can you help me? C:/Users/Jackneill/Desktop/Tabornok/lib/tabornok/messagehandler.rb:5:in `<module:Tabornok>': uninitialized constant Tabornok::Irc (NameError), i required the file where the Irc class is, also they are in the same module
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<burgestrand>
Guest71417: you’re wrong
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<burgestrand>
Jackneill: Could you paste your code somewhere? I can’t tell you what is wrong, but I can tell you that you are wrong because Ruby don’t lie about these things.
<Jackneill>
burgenstrand: i guess yes, but where?
<Jackneill>
sec
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<burgestrand>
Hm, give me a minute, I’ll run it myself. It looks like it should not cause an issue at first glance.
<Jackneill>
okok
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<burgestrand>
Jackneill: it doesn’t cause an issue when I run it on my system. Double-check to make sure you don’t have any weird invisible characters around line 7 in messagehandler.rb
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<Jackneill>
burgestrand, i dont have so i dont know whats the problem :/
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<burgestrand>
Jackneill: I would try just re-creating the files again with minimal requires again and see if that works. The code runs fine here, so I would assume the issue comes from somewhere you have not told us about.
<burgestrand>
Jackneill: nice, I can replicate the error here now
<apeiros_>
that's what you get for using require_relative :-p
<burgestrand>
Yeah.
<burgestrand>
Or, well, requiring all files in all files.
* apeiros_
leaves the constructive helping to burgestrand
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<burgestrand>
Jackneill: I would assume this issue comes from you requiring pretty much everything everywhere. Your entry-point is requiring 'tabornok/irc', but before it has a chance to define anything, that file will go on and require the parser, which requires the messagehandler, which requires irc, but since IRC is already loaded (it came here from the irc file) it will not require IRC again before continuing down.
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<Jackneill>
:/
<Jackneill>
anyway thanks.
<Jackneill>
i will look for it
<burgestrand>
Jackneill: the way people usually do this is that they require dependencies first, and then define things that use them.
<burgestrand>
Not the kind of circular require that happens here.
<Jackneill>
kk
<burgestrand>
For example, while the irc file depends on the parser being loaded, you should probably not load the parser *in* the IRC file but above it sometime later.
<burgestrand>
Either that or just change the layout of things. ^^
<Jackneill>
thanks :)
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<quazimodo>
guys
<quazimodo>
is there any way to call a method onlf if it exists?
<apeiros_>
you can test with respond_to?
<quazimodo>
apeiros_: maybe
<apeiros_>
?
<Mon_Ouie>
NB: The "?" was part of the method name — it wasn't a question
<apeiros_>
oh I'm not the only one using NB, awesome :D
<Mon_Ouie>
Is it uncommon in English? I never wondered about that actually :p
<shevy>
Nota Bene?
<apeiros_>
no idea. it's latin, therefore international!
<shevy>
I think it is not that uncommon in english
<shevy>
in the old MUD I used to play decades ago, they had english helpfiles, and sometimes additional information on the bottom of the helpfile like "Nota Bene: Horse combat currently is not entirely balanced."
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<shevy>
@@eats_errors = Object.new
<shevy>
def @@eats_errors.flush(*) end
<shevy>
man...
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<Muz>
gavit: server, singular? ;)
<Muz>
But yeah, $vcs pull $tag or $branch, package as an RPM or whatever and deploy as you would any other system package. Depends on what the code is and how many servers you have in what kind of existing deployment setup.
<aspiers>
does Test::Unit have a method which allows outputting extra debug info which would be useful in a failure?
<aspiers>
(I don't want to use the 3-param version of assert_equal)
<aspiers>
something like Perl's Test::More::diag()
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<ego12>
Hi guys, I'm attempting to use ruby for the first time to install an existing software package. I am having a lot of isuses and was hoping you could help
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<ego12>
Hi guys, I'm attempting to use ruby for the first time to install an existing software package. I am having a lot of isuses and was hoping you could help
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<arooni-mobile>
looking for a great http library that supports: ssl, adding/editing cookies, and adding a POST body parameters that look like.... :key => {:key => value1} etc. ive tried httpclient... any other things to try?
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<ego12>
apeiros_: i am using 1.9.3
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<ego12>
apeiros_: you just answered on the stackoverflow, i read it, i tried it, i love you
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<shevy_from_termi>
hi
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<shevy>
hmm
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<sebicas>
hi
<otters>
hey
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<shevy>
hi sebicas
<sebicas>
Hi shevy….
<sebicas>
How are you doing?
<shevy>
dunno
<shevy>
the webframeworks are all way too complicated
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<sebicas>
I agree
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<shevy>
were they easier 5 years ago?
<shevy>
somehow I feel as if I lost the connection
<shevy>
I find rack alone complicated enough, and it is just a tiny little 2% part ...
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<azm>
just use html ?
<azm>
and ascii art.
<azm>
<blink> Oh Hai ! </blink>
<shevy>
html is unfortunately not dynamic
<azm>
it is ^^
<shevy>
the data you store in it is dead
<azm>
well yea
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<shevy>
and just look at ERB, this thing is the ugliest shit ever
<fowl>
because shevy killed it and ate its children
<shevy>
WHY can anyone use erb... WHY
<azm>
why do you need data to be dynamic ?
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<shevy>
azm gives you more power
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<azm>
what specifically ?
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<shevy>
every time you wish to query data
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<azm>
what kind of data ?
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<shevy>
every kind of data, without any limitation
<azm>
like for example update the stock queue ?
<shevy>
every kind of data
<azm>
what is data ?
<shevy>
every kind of information
<shevy>
hmm rack seems nice
<shevy>
it comes with lobster.ru
<azm>
why not just rewrite every time and then ?
<azm>
and use html
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<shevy>
huh
<azm>
lobster.ru is crazy domain
<shevy>
that is so 1990
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<arooni-mobile>
i can get login to this site with curl -x 'POST' --data 'encoded_data=?.... blah blah' https://www.couchsurfing.org/login'.... but when i try to do it with a ruby HTTP library; i cannot (site doesnt let me in). ive tried with curb and http-client already
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<shevy>
there isn't much code associated with that
<azm>
so you want to have dynamic lobster ?
<shevy>
I don't think you'll get far with a lobster
<shevy>
dynamic or static
<shevy>
a lobster is not build for greatness
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<shevy>
sebicas it would be nice if stdlib ruby could provide something a bit more advanced than the old 'cgi' module
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<azm>
so ruby is made for website making
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<azm>
if I want to dynamically share stories about my lobster with friends for example
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<azm>
but you do not need framework for it
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<azm>
ruby on rails
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<azm>
that will do it
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<azm>
that like ruby
<azm>
is static
<azm>
and once its on rails it moves
<shevy>
azm ruby does not have a lot of limitations
<azm>
wow
<shevy>
azm have you been using another programming language?
<azm>
shevy, do you think I could make gae engine with ror ?
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<azm>
yes
<shevy>
I dont use ror
<shevy>
ask on #rubyonrails
<azm>
asm,C,python,C++
<shevy>
c AND c++???
<azm>
haskell
<shevy>
linus torvalds does not like C++
<shevy>
matz does not like C++
<azm>
well whatever
<shevy>
those are clever people! they use C
<azm>
I dont want to start flames
<azm>
please
<azm>
lets stay at the lobster
<shevy>
I like << from C++ though
<azm>
using /= like
<azm>
shevy, so for what do you use ruby ?
<azm>
exept lobsters
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<azm>
i think C++ is kinda robust tho
<azm>
no matter what linus or matz says
<azm>
they are irrelevant
<shevy>
azm hmm for most everything
<azm>
what project you working right now shevy
<azm>
Im curoius
<fowl>
azm: while you're in His temple, please do not talk about Matz (PBUH) in such light
<azm>
inspire me
<shevy>
azm, today I added code to my bash-replacement, to the ruby compile-scripts, to pipes | in ruby... and right now I am trying to think about what a new but SMALL ruby webframework would require
<azm>
shevy, why did you replace bash ? why is your replacement better ?
<shevy>
an addon to cgi
<shevy>
azm it is not yet better
<shevy>
bash is superfast...
<shevy>
I dont want to stay in shell scripts though
<azm>
fowl, sorry I havent meant to offend your religion and leaders
<azm>
on linux ?
<azm>
what distro you use ?
<shevy>
wherever ruby works must this replacement work too
<shevy>
I test on linux 99% of the time though
<shevy>
the speed difference is an issue though :(
<v1n3>
I was hoping someone could point me to a known good god config for puma
<burgestrand>
Oh, wrong section I believe. :p
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<burgestrand>
Meh it is there somewhere.
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<ExNihil>
Can you hear me?
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<burgestrand>
Ah it’s just the pid_file attribute under Config files are ruby code.
<burgestrand>
imo all the process watchers require far too much config :/
<v1n3>
agreed
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<ExNihil>
Is it just me, or is this chat room laggy?
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<v1n3>
for all the effort it takes to configure god, you'd think their was a dashboard output somewhere that assured you it ws working
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<v1n3>
oh, god status takes an optional list
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<vectorshelve>
undefined method `require_all' for main:Object (NoMethodError) while using the gem require_all. Wierd error despite adding the gem to my Gemfile
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<arooni-mobile>
i can get login to this site with curl -x 'POST' --data 'encoded_data=?.... blah blah' https://www.couchsurfing.org/login'.... but when i try to do it with a ruby HTTP library; i cannot (site doesnt let me in). ive tried with curb and http-client already
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<shevy>
vectorshelve perhaps it teaches you to not use require_all :D
<waxjar>
that's not what i mean, i mean the general idea resetting a class to it's "initial" state, or something
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<waxjar>
*idea of
<jarek>
is there a naming convention for events that are non-discrete?
<waxjar>
it causes some troubles for some tests i'm running
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<shevy>
waxjar yeah. there is no general reset method by default. so how do you want to solve this? you cant use reset if this method does not exist
<jarek>
e.g. lets say that 'sliderDragged' event fires many times when user drags the slider, how should I call an event that fires only after user has finished performing the drag?
<waxjar>
shevy, let me write up a gist real quick, it'll explain the problem better
<vectorshelve>
shevy: so now how do I shorten it ? absolute_path = Pathname(__FILE__).dirname.realpath.to_s pp Dir[absolute_path+'/../lib/*'] to require the files /
<shevy>
and why did you merge everything together again
<shevy>
I told you to use variables...
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<shevy>
step 1
<shevy>
- ensure that absolute_path has the path towards what you need
<shevy>
step 2
<waxjar>
vectorshelve: https://gist.github.com/3390047 i used _s instead of /s in the file names, because gist doesn't support subfolders
<shevy>
Dir.glob(absolute_path+'*')
<shevy>
I must leave here for some minutes
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<rubier>
anyone have experience with using the logger class with threads? I'm having issues logging inside a thread and I'm not sure exactly what's going on: http://pastebin.com/d1WxMKqZ
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<jslvk>
!aaa
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<jslvk>
:{?
<matti>
So hot...
<jslvk>
outside?
<matti>
rubier: You have to join your thread ;]
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<matti>
jslvk: Yeah.
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<jslvk>
yeah i live in the south US
<jslvk>
SWAMP BUTT
<chare>
ruby on rails security is good or sucks?
<matti>
chare: Deceny by default.
<matti>
chare: But there is always room for improvement ;]
<chare>
what does that mean?
<jslvk>
chare: decent XSS protection and sql injection stuff between rails and activerecord
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<matti>
chare: what he said --> jslvk
<jslvk>
you need to of course have some idea about security going in
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<jslvk>
also, for SQL injection..most ORMs have some built in scrubbing and whatnot
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<arooni-mobile>
hoif i have 5 or 6 arguments to send to a method; is it better to have (var_1, var_2, var_3) or pass a hash?
<jslvk>
if the number of variables in arbitrary use a params hash
<arooni-mobile>
well hte # of args is fixed
<arooni-mobile>
i may add/remove args in future
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<arooni-mobile>
why you think ? :p
<jslvk>
arooni-mobile: yeah then just do something like def myfn(arg1, arg2, args*) and keep the ones in you need explicitly
<jslvk>
*args
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<rubier>
matti: interesting. even after reading the docs for join, I'm still a bit confused as to what's currently going on, and how join will change the flow.
<arooni-mobile>
jslvk, keep the ones i need explicit like arg1, arg2 right
<jslvk>
yep
<matti>
rubier: There is a problem with scope ;]
<matti>
rubier: Also ;p
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<rubier>
yeah, I realized that after I posted the code. I've made log global.
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<arooni-mobile>
just out of curiosity why is that better than passing a hash
<arooni-mobile>
because arg1 arg2 is clearer?
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<jslvk>
arooni-mobile: more or less, since *args is just going to be a hash or joined as an array
<jslvk>
not very helpful for self-documenting code
<rubier>
hah, actually, scope was my only issue! thanks!
<rubier>
not sure why I wasn't getting an undefined local variable error
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<matti>
rubier: Well, you should join threads anyway ;p
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<matti>
rubier: Anyway, happy logging!
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<rubier>
matti: the actual threads are going to be created inside an infinite loop, so I don't think I have to worry about making sure they get executed before my program terminates (which is what the point of join is, if I understand it correctly)
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<matti>
rubier: Writing a server?
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<rubier>
yup
<matti>
rubier: Look at EventMachine then.
<matti>
rubier: It nice, and super easy to make nice servers with it.
<bperry>
eventmachine was dead I thought
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<matti>
bperry: Still better older version than infinite loop and not-quite-decent-threads in Ruby for a server ;]
<bperry>
probably
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<matti>
:)
<dtribble>
is eventmachine dead? or rather is there an event loop implementation to replace it?
<matti>
I haven't heard about it being dead.
<matti>
There has been a slow-down in development.
<matti>
But.
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<rubier>
matti: thanks for the tip. This is a dead simple udp messaging system, so I'm not too concerned with performance so I'd rather save on complexity. Just spawning threads for connections on the off chance I receive two simultanously (nearly impossible).
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<matti>
rubier: OK OK :)
<rubier>
hehe
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<macer1>
hey
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<macer1>
will creating every time OpenSSL::Cipher::Cipher.new('AES-128-CFB8').decrypt will result in performance loss?
<macer1>
or not..
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<macer1>
I want to add simple decrypt! method to String
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<macer1>
hmm..how to make a function that waits for thing from another thread?
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<ryanf>
join
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<matti>
macer1: Have a look on threads synchronisation. There is a way to notify others that one has finished ;]
<macer1>
not really /finished/
<macer1>
it is thread that reads packet
<macer1>
and main thread needs to wait for packet
<macer1>
that read packest*
<macer1>
packets*
<macer1>
...
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<macer1>
i.e thread will call notify_new_packet(packet) and what to do from there...
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<matti>
macer1: Is this a producer/consumer approach?
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<macer1>
matti: kind of...
<macer1>
there is a thread that read packets from stream using eventmachine
<macer1>
the 'connect' method needs to send hi packet and wait for response
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<burgestrand>
macer1: I lost connection for a moment, but have you looked at the ruby Queue?
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<macer1>
macer1> there is a thread that read packets from stream using eventmachine
<macer1>
macer1> the 'connect' method needs to send hi packet and wait for response
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<macer1>
queue looks interesting
<burgestrand>
macer1: you just put any ruby object into it. All readers will block if the queue is empty, and once an item enters the queue one of the blocked readers will awaken and get the item.
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<macer1>
oh
<burgestrand>
macer1: there is also SizedQueue if you want to limit the number of items in the queue.
<macer1>
also I am trying to implement eventmachine as using read_packet while true is using all cpu :P
<macer1>
even loop { 1 } is using all cpu
<burgestrand>
macer1: yeah, that’s to be expected
<burgestrand>
macer1: if you are using eventmachine have a look at the next_tick method
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<macer1>
queue looks like what I am needing, but what to do with next_tick?
<macer1>
also, queue after consuming is cleaned?
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<burgestrand>
macer1: if you need to do something in a loop in eventmachine it’s not a good idea since you’ll block the reactor from running, say loop { 1 } is bad
<burgestrand>
macer1: but doing next_tick { 1 } is okay
<burgestrand>
macer1: when you take an item from the queue it is removed from the queue
<macer1>
OK, it looks like I don't need it
<macer1>
burgestrand: awesome
<macer1>
thanks!
<burgestrand>
macer1: also if you are using eventmachine and Queue together be careful not to try to pop item from queue in eventmachine loop (or add item to sized queue) as it may block the reactor
<macer1>
heh, ok
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<macer1>
def read_data; if enough data then read and add to queue; end; def wait_for_packet; queue.pop; end
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<matti>
burgestrand: Perhaps he could leverage Channel to pass data.
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<burgestrand>
matti: dunno, looks useful
<burgestrand>
didn’t know about channel :)
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<burgestrand>
channel is one-to-many though
<burgestrand>
maybe… the docs are not helpful
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<matti>
burgestrand: He could subscribe to a channel before EM.run.
<matti>
burgestrand: And then in receive_data just @channel.push
<matti>
No idea, though.
<matti>
Depends on what is needed.
<matti>
Hehe
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