<domgetter>
shellie_: Learning a new language usually makes you a better programmer overall. The exception would be if you already know like 20 languages really well, but that's very very few people.
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<domgetter>
And it helps gives perspective of a lot of the design decisions in your first language and you can code better in it cause you have a bigger picture
<shellie_>
agree :)
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<al2o3-cr>
list comps are so the power
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<shevy>
al2o3-cr you are an oldschool lisper? :)
<al2o3-cr>
not per se
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<al2o3-cr>
one thing that i wish ruby added is list comps
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<Radar>
Why?
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<shellie_>
not enough syntactic sugar? :)
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<al2o3-cr>
Radar: [ math.sin(x) for x in [1,2,3] ] vs [1,2,3].map { |n| Math.sin(n) }
<Radar>
I think the latter is more readable.
<Radar>
"perform this function for each element in this list" vs "take this list and perform this function on it"
<al2o3-cr>
Radar: personal opinion lv ruby me
<shellie_>
I think the former is more readable, but I'm biased
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<al2o3-cr>
it is
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<al2o3-cr>
but i love ruby
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<al2o3-cr>
one thing i would like Ruby to inherit from Python is list comps
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<al2o3-cr>
python inherited from other langs
<hxegon>
al2o3-cr that would be nice. I find HOF replaces a lot of the uses I would get, but not 100%
<al2o3-cr>
just tried to drown myself
<hxegon>
al2o3-cr D:
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<al2o3-cr>
another thing control flow from within print
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<domgetter>
part of the definition of a "list comprehension" is that it is syntactic sugar for set building notation
<domgetter>
so if you have a mathematical background, list comps look preeeeeeetty nice
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<shevy>
my brain also works how Radar described above :D
<shevy>
maths people to haskell!
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<al2o3-cr>
haskell is || 77
<domgetter>
al2o3-cr: or 77?
<al2o3-cr>
77 IS FOR GIDDY UP
<domgetter>
I don't understand what that means.
<al2o3-cr>
domgetter: no one does
<shevy>
it's like 42 apparently
<volty>
list comprehensions look nice, but pity when it comes to the rest you get comprehended in void
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<al2o3-cr>
Why does no one on here speak a fucking sense on common
<volty>
just cute, there's a nice interview of one of the creators of haskell on youtube — «Haskell is useless» (more or less, search on yt)
<al2o3-cr>
why?
<volty>
on common what?
<Radar>
al2o3-cr: Ironic that you didn't make sense.
<al2o3-cr>
grounds, anyting
<shevy>
volty I heard that before but usually in another context - "having a barrier is good"
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<nfk|laptop>
i'm looking at something along the lines of jira and ideally with time tracking features, any recommendations? right now i'm considering taiga.io
<al2o3-cr>
Radar: really?
<shevy>
1482 people on #haskell so I assume it works for them
<Papierkorb>
nfk|laptop: afaik Redmine has time tracking stuff too
<nfk|laptop>
wow, didn't know that
<Radar>
"speak a fucking sense on common" is not any phrase that I know
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<domgetter>
execute order 77
<Radar>
Redmine still isn't dead? Jeez.
<al2o3-cr>
Radar: common fucking sense
<volty>
no grounds there, you can play with haskell just for fun (funny comprehension), but when it comes to product it's useless (as his author rightly states)
<nfk|laptop>
shevy, i considered haskel for my next project, looking at the source for about 10 minutes was enough to make me reconsider ruby
<Radar>
al2o3-cr: right
<Papierkorb>
Radar: we're using it at work. it's still better than gerrit ....
<shevy>
it is not! it's even growing! yesterday I had to register for a redmine account at... let me try to remember the name of the project...
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<Radar>
I've got my time tracking separate from my projects because the company I'm currently working for doesn't care about time tracking.
<Radar>
nfk|laptop: How often does the time something take matter in your company?
<shevy>
ah yes, it was audacious, they use redmine too, I had to use it because audacious-plugins has no way to find audacious in non-standard locations
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<nfk|laptop>
not a company and i'm pretty sure the powers beyond will want to see the timesheets
<Radar>
nfk|laptop: If it's just the timesheets they want to see, then I reckon using Toggl and its reporting feature will do.
<nfk|laptop>
i'd love to just code and maybe do a conference once in a while but life isn't that sweet
<volty>
shevy: just nerds. they master comprehensions, and pose as experts, but they are stuck there
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<Radar>
nfk|laptop: As for the project management stuff itself, maybe sprint.ly, Pivotal Tracker or even GitHub's issues.
<nfk|laptop>
i can't use github as powers beyond were not quite happy with the public nature
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<nfk|laptop>
even though it's sort of internal academic project so there's no direct danger
<volty>
you should ALL advice people to stay away from Haskell (except for just surfacing it)
<Papierkorb>
GH Enterprice :P
<Radar>
nfk|laptop: Get a private repo
<nfk|laptop>
volty, i have no idea why you'd say that, haskell is fine if you can get your mind around it
<nfk|laptop>
though i don't think many can
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<Papierkorb>
nfk|laptop: one (or the?) of the designers of haskell did a interesting video on it
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<nfk|laptop>
Radar, i'm currently considering if i should spend something like 14 euros on new winter gloves, you think i can afford a monthly subscription?
<Papierkorb>
nfk|laptop: lowtech? Excel spreadsheet .. in GDrive? .. with a stop watch desktop widget?
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<Radar>
nfk|laptop: I see.
<Radar>
Toggl is free btw.
<volty>
nfk|laptop: it's a crap phrase — very like the one (attributed to Einstein) that say our brain works only at 10 % — the answer is very simple, our brain evolved to work this way, no miracles there . The fact is that you cannot get your mind around it. You can only get around mastering structures and comprensions, but you just cannot decompose the big projects / problems
<nfk|laptop>
and sadly that consideration is kinda lost as my current ones gave me a freeze burn today and i was just out for like 2x15 minutes to the local bistro
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<nfk|laptop>
Papierkorb, that's i guess not that bad though i'd like for something a bit more modern
<al2o3-cr>
>> $<<
<ruboto>
al2o3-cr # => /tmp/execpad-bef34210a45e/source-bef34210a45e:3: syntax error, unexpected keyword_rescue ...check link for more (https://eval.in/497353)
<al2o3-cr>
its gone >.?/'
<al2o3-cr>
thee bot is wank
<Papierkorb>
nfk|laptop: a ruby script which .. autoupdates the spreadsheet! .. Not trying to troll you, if I were in such a position I'd do something similar. Heck, make the ruby script write a CSV file which you import into excel and you're done. – IF for some reason one of the other free solutions just don't cut it for you
<nfk|laptop>
volty, i mean, python and ruby require you to get used to them
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<nfk|laptop>
i have also done some FORTH and even brainfuck and dipped the top of my pinky into clojure but haskell is a bit too much
<nfk|laptop>
Papierkorb, now that i think about it, i'll just have a local file and sync it via git
<volty>
nfk|laptop: it's not that. in langs like ruby & python it's much easier to decompose a problem, to test it, to debug it. In haskell it's much more difficult to decompose. It's all flow, no break, no pause, no rest.
<nfk|laptop>
the main issue is actually the time counting itself
<nfk|laptop>
volty, it's the syntax i object to
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<nfk|laptop>
or rather, the way stuff is done
<nfk|laptop>
it's just too alien
<Papierkorb>
nfk|laptop: have a script which takes start|stop as argument. on start, it writes a YAML file with the current time stamp. on stop, it reads it back and updates the CSV or whatever.
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<nfk|laptop>
Papierkorb, yeah, i have such software already, it's just local to the machine and i'm working on two different linux boxes
<nfk|laptop>
having them share the data would be best
<Papierkorb>
nfk|laptop: That thing is so dumb that not only you could technically do it with a bash script, no, everything that can fork() to processes can intergrate it (e.g. your favorite text editor)
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<volty>
it is too alien for human brains — we, humans, spent thousands of years to get where we are. at the same time we have some experts, confined to their list comprehensions (and nothing else, almost) that try too cheat us with «you should adjust your mind .... »
<nfk|laptop>
but alas ktimetracker hasn't been ported to plasma 5 and hamster is just shit, good looking but shit
<volty>
s/too/to/
<Papierkorb>
nfk|laptop: I feel your KDE related pain :(
<shevy>
hamster!
<shevy>
i like them
<al2o3-cr>
not known lately
<shevy>
alien hamsters learning haskell
<nfk|laptop>
that's go
<shevy>
hahah
<nfk|laptop>
or whatever they have for mascot
<Papierkorb>
wasn't that some kind of rat?
<shevy>
yeah a gopher or whatever the name is for that obese rat-like thing... but it's actually cute
<nfk|laptop>
Papierkorb, i don't think anyone has moomins for logo
<al2o3-cr>
haskell is good (for it is useless)
<nfk|laptop>
shevy, so it's a programmer?
<volty>
i gave up as soon as I saw there was no inheritance, when I saw the libraries for xml parsing — a nightmare masked by overuse of operators
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<al2o3-cr>
m4p r3v3rs3 [elkjfkkskjfkljfkldkljf]
<Radar>
al2o3-cr: really
<al2o3-cr>
Radar: ?
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<Radar>
al2o3-cr: y u spam
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<volty>
anyone experience with ruby extensions? what tools can you suggest?
<Ox0dea>
hxegon_: I don't remember whether I've shown al2o3-cr, and he's into list comprehensions.
<Radar>
!unmute al2o3-cr
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<al2o3-cr>
Radar: +)
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<al2o3-cr>
Ox0dea: you didn't write surely haha
<Ox0dea>
al2o3-cr: What didn't I write?
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<al2o3-cr>
your fingers
<shevy>
haha
<Ox0dea>
So meta.
<shevy>
no, he used his toes and nose
<Ox0dea>
My toeses and noses.
<nfk|laptop>
okay, i'm trying to figure out a good name for the project
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<nfk|laptop>
i think i'm about to source on kanjis
<shevy>
that is one of the biggest problems out there
<nfk|laptop>
it always is
<shevy>
finding a good name
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<shevy>
how about:
<shevy>
- kanji-ninjas
<nfk|laptop>
it's not about kanjis or anything nippon related
<Ox0dea>
The hardest problems in programming: naming things, cache invalidation, naming things, and cache invalidation.
<nfk|laptop>
also you can't beat kanji damage
<nfk|laptop>
An official KanjiDamage deck is now available for Anki , a popular flashcard program. Many thanks to miwuc, KD user and great coder! This KanjiDamage deck contains all of KD's kanji plus stroke order diagrams. Please check it out here!
<shevy>
zacts dunno, it sorta changed when _why was no longer in charge, in principle shoes is a good idea; one variant requires java/jruby though
<Ox0dea>
Papierkorb: You didn't invoke a method.
<Papierkorb>
and you're just bitching around.
<shevy>
:D
<craysiii>
documentation is lacking and the newer version requires jruby as its been said
<craysiii>
i would personally use C#/Mono for GUI but thats me.
<shevy>
it would be nice if we could have a shoes-like API for all the ruby-GUI bindings on top of their regular way to use them
<Ox0dea>
>> foo = [1,2,3].sample until foo.nonzero? # Papierkorb
<ruboto>
Ox0dea # => undefined method `nonzero?' for nil:NilClass (NoMethodError) ...check link for more (https://eval.in/497357)
<Ox0dea>
Papierkorb: I am genuinely interested in your answer: what the fuck is the point of providing incorrect "advice"?
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<nfk|laptop>
craysiii, there's also qml
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<Ox0dea>
Papierkorb: Who benefits?
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<Papierkorb>
Ox0dea: you've been asking me stuff every time I said something since last week or so. It's becoming obvious.
<nfk|laptop>
and can you even use Mono for GUI? last time i checked they only had explicit GTK bindings not WPF or winforms emulation
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<zacts>
shevy: so perhaps a QT gem might work for me?
<zacts>
I want to support only Linux / BSD / OSX
<zacts>
I don't even care about Windows
<nfk|laptop>
the dirty little secret of .NET is that winforms and probably also WPF are part of windows and .NET is just binding to it
<shevy>
zacts I dunno... Papierkorb tried the ruby-qt bindings some time ago, I am more into ruby-gnome. all of them could require a LOT of improvements
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<zacts>
ah yeah
<zacts>
so does ruby-gnome work for OSX too?
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<zacts>
if so, I don't mind using that
<nfk|laptop>
hence Mono has to provide bindings to something else and it's not even trying to act like what you have on windows
<shevy>
zacts when I tried them when qt4 / kde 4 came out, qtruby was nice though but that was when rdale was still around. I dunno who took over, it's on some github mirror nowadays
<zacts>
(it's for a simple app)
<craysiii>
i dont see how that matters when they only want to support linux
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<shevy>
I know that ruby-gnome works on windows, not sure about OSX but I assume it will work if gtk2/gtk3 works on OSX (does it?)
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<zacts>
no idea re: gtk2/gtk3 on OSX, although GIMP works on OSX, and it uses gtk
<shevy>
aha yeah
<volty>
qtbindings are fine
<zacts>
volty: which gem do you use for this?
<volty>
I just missed (these days) the phonon framework but I've done it just now
<nfk|laptop>
shevy, there is a gem
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<volty>
zacts: qtbindings (4.8.6.2)
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<volty>
pay ATTN, you have to have ruby compiled with shared libraries enabled
<nfk|laptop>
there's qt5 binding, people, qml only
<nfk|laptop>
it's either gem install qt or gem install qml
<nfk|laptop>
iirc
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<Papierkorb>
QML already uses JS, what's the point of integrating that?
<volty>
I hope the classical qtbindings will live on
<nfk|laptop>
Papierkorb, so that you can write the logic in Ruby and integrate with your ruby code
<nfk|laptop>
also you'll be displeased if you knew how shitty qml is
<Papierkorb>
Last time (~1.3 years ago?) QML just didn't cut it on the desktop for UI
<craysiii>
writing gui is ruby is just a pita it seems.
<nfk|laptop>
with my python project i literally did everything from python if it couldn't be done in pure qml
<nfk|laptop>
any kind of interaction from qml to python was fucking pain
<volty>
I gave it a look (at qml) long time ago and I didn't like it
<nfk|laptop>
or rather, fucking impossible without doing crazy stuff
<shevy>
you people make me sad :(
<Papierkorb>
Looks like qtbindings is not compatible with Ruby 2.3. it installed fine with 2.2.4
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<Darmani>
shevy: don't be sad.
<Darmani>
Be happy.
<Darmani>
<33
<nfk|laptop>
i did install qt gem on 2.3 already
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<Papierkorb>
nfk|laptop: "qtbindings" ?
<nfk|laptop>
no
<volty>
Papierkorb: and how that incompatibility manifests ?
<nfk|laptop>
gem install qt would be my first guess
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<nfk|laptop>
Papierkorb, note that it's qml 2 only
<nfk|laptop>
but on the upside it's very fast to build
<nfk|laptop>
pyqt5 takes about as long to build as most qt modules
<shevy>
Ox0dea could you please stop using words such as "meant"?
<Ox0dea>
Of course not.
<agent_white>
?meant
<ruboto>
I don't know anything about meant
<shevy>
Ox0dea it is the same problem that Papierkorb mentioned. Stop harassing people.
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<Ox0dea>
You're so small.
<pontiki>
o.o
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<Ox0dea>
I mean, like, petty.
<shevy>
Ox0dea This is a matter of netiquette. If you have a proper solution, it's perfectly fine to present it without attempting to lower other people you dislike. It's similar problems in the past such as your ad hominem attack against me.
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<Ox0dea>
shevy: What is the purpose of this channel?
<agent_white>
towlie.jpg
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<shevy>
Ox0dea For you to stop highlighting me with unimportant boring trivia.
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<Ox0dea>
I hope things get better.
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<shevy>
I sure hope so as well.
<Ox0dea>
shevy: How many times do you reckon I've helped somebody in this channel? Two, three tops?
<shevy>
Ox0dea I don't care. Stop highlighting me if you help someone else.
<Ox0dea>
You look stupid.
<shevy>
Ox0dea And if you don't, it is harassment. Plain and simple.
<agent_white>
?guys
<ruboto>
Though inclusion was probably intended, not everyone relates to being "one of the guys". Maybe consider using "folks", "all", "y'all", or "everyone" instead?
<agent_white>
HUMANS... stop it?
<wolffles>
lol
<wolffles>
girls dont mind being called guys ruboto
<agent_white>
TRIGGERED
* Darmani
enters the room
<agent_white>
wolffles: Yeah I got banned for saying that a bit ago. So be careful.
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<Darmani>
Are we fighting?
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<Darmani>
o.o
<wolffles>
for reals?
<agent_white>
Yes. So be careful.
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<shevy>
Darmani nah, I think it's over already
<wolffles>
thats a bit harsh i feel
<Darmani>
Usually I'm the one who says something controversial.
<Darmani>
Well not really.
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<Darmani>
But usually someone gets offended by something I say.
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<shevy>
Any more programming you did as of late Darmani?
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<Ox0dea>
Darmani: Step 1: Be attractive. Step 2: Don't be unattractive.
<Ox0dea>
It was a meme, bro! Do you even Internet?
<Darmani>
Step3: Profit????
<Darmani>
I didn't recognize that one.
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<wolffles>
Ox0dea: your a monster tonight, or ive just never noticed it
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<wolffles>
:D not jugding just saying
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<Ox0dea>
wolffles: How do you mean?
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<Darmani>
wolffles: How so?
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<Ox0dea>
wolffles: Please clarify.
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<Darmani>
wolffles: Please.
<wolffles>
with the witty comments
<wolffles>
you must be a hit at partys :P
<Darmani>
Nah he just took his medication today.
<wolffles>
riterall?
<Darmani>
lulz
<agent_white>
:/
<Ox0dea>
wolffles: I don't get it?
<Ox0dea>
Wit is monstrous now?
<agent_white>
Nah only indirect object... nevermind.
<Darmani>
Ox0dea: Well I for one appreciate your wit.
<wolffles>
Ox0dea: what dont you get
<wolffles>
Ox0dea: please clarify
<Ox0dea>
Are you... trolling?
<agent_white>
Do... we move this to offtopic?
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<wolffles>
nah im walffing
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* Darmani
presents wolffles with the trophy for Master Troller
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<lolktnxbye>
rya
<lolktnxbye>
oops
<lolktnxbye>
newb question. why does the nil? method return false on an empty array? thanks!
<domgetter>
lolktnxbye: only nil is nil
<Ox0dea>
That said, any object can lie.
<domgetter>
an empty array is still a thing. it's an empty bucket. buckets aren't nothing. for example, you can ask a bucket how many things it contains
<DarkElement>
Like if I have a string "This is a random stringasdjk", I want to be able to do $new_str = $str[-5...-1].sub("asdfj", "")
<Ox0dea>
DarkElement: So by "sub" you mean "remove"?
<DarkElement>
However when I tried that it just yields the result of the sub, and I need to only execute the sub on the last 5 and not assign the string it's last 5 chars
<DarkElement>
Is there a way to do that with sub, perhaps?
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<DarkElement>
Sorry Ox0dea, un-ignored. You were saying?
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<DarkElement>
Never mind I cam eup with my own solution
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<norc>
apeiros: Alright this is even more bizarre now. Apparently I still had a left over jruby in my PATH at the _end_... removing it magically fixed it.
* norc
scratches his head
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<norc>
Im not sure how a jruby at the end of my path causes chruby to use my OSX Ruby, but fine.
<apeiros>
bizarre seems to capture that pretty well
<norc>
Im just happy it works. :-)
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<norc>
At least now I can &. all around in my Ruby. That should be fun.
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<apeiros>
I hope ruby's &. does not become the equivalent of php's @
<apeiros>
(but they're structurally quite different, so chances are it won't)
<Ox0dea>
@ is the nuclear option.
<apeiros>
nucular
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<norc>
Considering how Ruby seems to behave, auto vivifying ivars, I can see that coming.
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<DEA7TH>
In irb, how can I declare global variables which can be accessed inside global functions? This works in Python, I thought it worked in irb too.
<norc>
Until yesterday I never gave much thought to this particular behavior...
<Ox0dea>
The PHP community never really took to giving their operators cute names, but I think @ would've been called the "Nike operator".
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<apeiros>
non-raising constant reassignment and auto-vivifying ivars are some of my ruby pet peeves
<raz>
hmm.. i'm feeling stupid.. why does this expression give a syntax error? puts (n * (n + 1) / 2) – ((a - 1) * a / 2)
<apeiros>
DEA7TH: $vars are global
<norc>
DEA7TH: If you want to have state, chances are you want a module or a class.
<apeiros>
DEA7TH: but generally you don't want that
<DEA7TH>
I know it's just a small script with 1 global in total
<norc>
DEA7TH: Put it inside a module then.
<apeiros>
Ox0dea: not the "shut the f up" operator?
<DEA7TH>
Ruby had a dollar operator and I didn't even know about it? Heh. It works anyway.
<norc>
DEA7TH: Don't use it. Use a module, really.
<apeiros>
DEA7TH: it's not an operator
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<norc>
Some things really don't belong into Ruby. Custom globals are one of them. :-
<apeiros>
and +1 to norc - better learn how to properly do it.
<norc>
:-S
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<Ox0dea>
apeiros: "Just Do It".
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<DEA7TH>
norc: It's throwaway code for a signle task, 5-15 lines in total. Globals are made for this use case.
<Ox0dea>
raz: That's really weird.
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<apeiros>
Ox0dea: got that, but it's a misnomer since it won't make it do it any more than without :)
<Ox0dea>
apeiros: The focus is on the absence of complaint.
<raz>
Ox0dea: tell me more! :D i tried a few things, but it just leaves me baffled (e.g. if you split at the - into two expressions, they both run fine)
<norc>
DEA7TH: I think globals just exist for historical reasons.
<apeiros>
raz: it's a bad idea to have a method call with a paren a space away
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<Ox0dea>
raz: I... it might be a bug? I don't see why the parser should have trouble disambiguating.
<raz>
apeiros: well it's a simple formula... i don't know why the parser has trouble with it?
<ruboto>
Ox0dea # => /tmp/execpad-972909647755/source-972909647755:2: syntax error, unexpected tIDENTIFIER, expecting key ...check link for more (https://eval.in/497445)
<norc>
Can ruboto execute with -y ?
<Ox0dea>
It looks like a parser bug.
<apeiros>
ok, seems indeed unrelated to having issues with args vs. other parens
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<norc>
Ox0dea: Does it?
<apeiros>
and it's not confused about // being a regex either
<norc>
What is this character: –
<apeiros>
ah
<apeiros>
heh
<apeiros>
yeah, – vs -
<apeiros>
well spotted norc :)
<raz>
ohhhhhhhhhhhh
<norc>
@raz ^^
<raz>
fml
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<apeiros>
lel?
<raz>
that's what you get for copy pasting from websites
<norc>
apeiros: The advantage of getting familiar with ruby -y :-)
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<apeiros>
note that it's still a bad idea to put a space between parenthesized args and method name ;-)
<raz>
thanks guys... lol.. sorry about this
<apeiros>
norc: interesting flag. gotta take a look at it.
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<apeiros>
related to your question of understanding ruby parsing process?
<raz>
apeiros: well in principle you are right. but i don't see why i should format math formulas weirdly just to please ruby ;)
<apeiros>
raz: you don't have to. just either put a proper arg paren around the whole or don't have a paren at all.
<norc>
raz: It's to please people who read your code (which might be yourself)
<apeiros>
and yes, yes, you will have to please syntax rules of whichever language you're writing in.
<norc>
raz: The only few times when you have to please the parser is when you try to leave too many fcall parens away. The Ruby parser quickly chokes on that.
<apeiros>
unless of course you don't care about the outcome.
<raz>
apeiros: hm, bit confused right now, how exactly would you rewrite it? (n * (n + 1) / 2) – ((a - 1) * a / 2)
<norc>
raz: Again. – is not -
<apeiros>
raz: `puts (` <- bad
<norc>
- is an operator, – is an identifier.
<apeiros>
raz: `puts(` <- correct
<apeiros>
ruby will (sadly) try to figure out what you meant, but it won't always get it right.
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<raz>
norc: sorry, still had the bad version in the clipboard
<apeiros>
norc: they referred to my "space before paren" thingy
<norc>
Ah.
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<raz>
apeiros: ah, gotcha.. well.. yea bad habit maybe. i just never use parents for puts.
<raz>
parens
<raz>
jesus, today is not my irc day ;)
<norc>
>> (a) b
<ruboto>
norc # => /tmp/execpad-14860bfa19ea/source-14860bfa19ea:2: syntax error, unexpected tIDENTIFIER, expecting key ...check link for more (https://eval.in/497452)
<apeiros>
so the way I'd write it is: `puts((n * (n + 1) / 2) - ((a - 1) * a / 2))`
<norc>
This is basically what that original parser error boiled down to by the way.
<raz>
well, whoever puts code or formulas on their website and lets a "beautifier" mangle them should be tarred and feathered anyway
<Ox0dea>
Seconded.
<raz>
has bitte me often enough that i 'm just tempted to write a keyboard maestro "clipboard unmangler" or such
<raz>
well, bucket list 2016...
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<apeiros>
raz: beautifier is ok, as long as there's a "raw" button which has it in plaintext
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<apeiros>
or better yet, a copy button. less annoying anyways. sad thing is just that that won't work without flash across browsers :(
<raz>
well.. guess so.. but i never want to look at "beautified code" anyway
<raz>
beautifier is fine for blog text.. but code is code
<apeiros>
replacing a - with a – is just wrong, though :)
<norc>
Ox0dea: Don't second it. Here we should advocate mindless use of rubocop. Let beautifies and code static code analyzers improve code styles. Who are we to meddle with the machines of today.
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<Ox0dea>
Somebody wants `rubyfmt`.
<Ox0dea>
It isn't me.
<raz>
yeh i'm a bit wary about that new magical comments stuff
<Ox0dea>
That's not to say we shouldn't give the machines their due, mind.
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* raz
wonders if 2016 will be the year when 'gem install' won't take minutes anymore...
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<norc>
raz: It shouldn't take more than a few seconds for most gems. What are you trying to install?
<norc>
raz: Also, skip rdoc/ri if you want to seriously speed things up.
<norc>
Aside from gems building native extensions, that is how gem spends most of its time.
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<raz>
norc: doesn't matter what. yes i know about nordoc/nori. rubygems is just slow far beyond the point of ridiculousness.
<Ox0dea>
Could be network or potato issues.
<raz>
our Rails Gemfile takes upwards of 5min to install..
<raz>
not the network. fastly is fast
<norc>
raz: I cannot share that opinion. It took me a fair 45s to install my entire gem dependencies for one of our larger Rails applications. Half of that was spent in the compiler.
<ddv>
raz: so?
<norc>
And that was a total of maybe 200 gems?
<norc>
Which is pretty fast.
<raz>
norc: seems unlikely tbh, then again, npm would've probably done it in 5s ;)
<Ox0dea>
raz: Y U DO DIS? Our granary is so far away.
<Ox0dea>
I didn't realize we were running so low.
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<raz>
oh just to rub it, i launched a random gem install
<raz>
i'll let you know when it finishes :P
<raz>
$ time gem install --no-rdoc --no-ri activerecord
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<norc>
I honestly had that situation where a buddy wanted to come over to watch a movie, and I had to tell him "Next week. Next couple days my computer is busy compiling X11 and Firefox".
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<norc>
At the time I didn't even consider that it was pretty retarded...
<Ox0dea>
I bet you did, though.
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<raz>
so for fun, activerecord-4.2.5.gem is 325kb. it takes 0m0.006s to unzip here. so, i'd say 0.006s + 0.1s network latency = 0.106s would be an acceptable latency for a gem install.
<raz>
and i'm being generous with the network here :P
<norc>
Well. You are right, I did. And I concluded that it was worth it, since you got an optimized build... but I was just a kid back then and felt pretty cool about my monitor showing compiler output all day long.
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<norc>
raz: Rubygems does more than just fetch and unzip. But just a bit. ;-)
<raz>
norc: yes, and very, very poorly :/
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<norc>
raz: I couldn't tell, since I don't know what that exactly is, and why that would be considered poor.
<raz>
i'll just stop ranting already. be glad you don't. :)
<norc>
raz: Feel free to enlighten me then.
<Ox0dea>
>> "#{%w[good great awesome best perfect].sample} idea"
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<norc>
So I have this rather expensive piece of proprietary software here. The developers thought it would look cool and modern to store the session id in HTML5 local storage. Can someone here think of an elegant way to tell them about their stupidity?
<shevy>
hehe
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<shevy>
raz I always wanted a variant of gentoo but with ruby rather than portage
<raz>
that's probably not the kind of persistence they were looking for... :P
<norc>
The issue is not the persistence...
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<shevy>
gem installation can be quite slow, especially when you also include documentation, but you can keep local copies, and then install from there
<domgetter>
norc: explain that what they've done is the equivalent of a bank giving the other key to the lockbox to the customer for safe keeping
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<norc>
Wait correction. I meant to write session storage there.
<raz>
shevy: yea it's just a ball on a chain. npm, go etc. just install in split seconds. and then its ruby's turn and you go make a coffee...
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<domgetter>
norc: oh then tell them theyve locked the key in the lockbox
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<Ox0dea>
norc: When you came pulling in here, did you notice the sign out in front of my house that said "HTML5 localStorage"?
<norc>
domgetter: The iceberg went a lot bigger when they reimplemented SHA with their own modifications for HMAC that is used in various places. That was quite amusing to look at last week.
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<domgetter>
norc: I'll bet there's a Mr. Bean sketch of a very similar problem
<domgetter>
he often did the "saw off the branch you're sitting on" kind of humor
<raz>
reimplemented SHA...
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<raz>
that's right from the book of great ideas
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<raz>
wouldn't trust an existing impl with my precious HMACs either
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<domgetter>
They'd better build their own cpu, just in case
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<norc>
raz: The reason security related companies do this is often: "It is more likely that someone will break the well known encryption, than someone to scrape off the top of a chip, delete fuse bits with uv light, and reverse engineer your custom implementation on your chip"
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<raz>
norc: um.
<norc>
They usually rely on keeping that modification secret.
<norc>
Which is a bit silly, because reverse engineering your implementation is usually much easier. :-)
* raz
tries to decide how many levels of wrong that idea stacks
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<norc>
raz: Just consider how Enigma was rendered useless by politicians who didn't know anything about encryption or mathematics. It's the same story probably, people with power but no knowledge trying to influence things.
<norc>
On encryption that tends to end badly.
<Ox0dea>
Some worlds just want to watch the people burn.
<raz>
there's a fairly simple rule about crypto code. don't write it.
<raz>
if you were one of the few people who are qualified to write it, you'd know.
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<raz>
and if you think mucking with SHA is a sensible thing to do, well. refer to the one rule. :P
<Ox0dea>
Are we talking about SHA-1, then?
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<raz>
don't see why you would patch any of them
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<domgetter>
they wanted to make it a little more random
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<Ox0dea>
Cryptographic security peaked with memfrob(3), imo.
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<abkabkabk>
!paste
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<domgetter>
abkabkabk: a symbol is kinda like a string but more efficient
<apeiros>
symbols are used internally by ruby to identify all things with a name (methods, ivars, lvars etc.)
<abkabkabk>
thx mucho
<abkabkabk>
ahh k
<livcd>
I am going to build a cli todo tool. What would be the "best" approach to take. Obviously there are dozens of such tools on github but I'd like to ask here first
<apeiros>
and hence they're built to be fast for all identification purposes.
<shevy>
livcd as awful as it is, I'd recommend to start with optionparser until you want to take an alternative lateron
<apeiros>
livcd: the old "how do I write a game" question. this is out of scope of this channel.
<domgetter>
(and super-duper internally, symbols are integers, so they're super fast n stuff)
<apeiros>
livcd: break your question down into answerable questions please.
<livcd>
apeiros: ok
<shevy>
livcd afterwards just add on elements that you feel have to be included into a todo script; I assume being able to designate different files, toggle behaviour, autogenerate some code based on that etc...
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<livcd>
shevy: so why is optionparser awful and what is the alternative you would recommend ?
<shevy>
I mostly just use local textfiles in a single directory called todo/ :)
<domgetter>
livcd: the "thor" gem can be used to make a cli tool. of course, there might be others
<livcd>
ah yeah i have heard about thor gem
<shevy>
livcd I dunno, I just can't stand the API really, others have less of a problem here http://docs.ruby-lang.org/en/2.2.0/OptionParser.html - there is a reason why you have alternatives such as slop or thor though
<livcd>
i mean i could perhaps glue it together that would not be a problem. I think i'd like some key/value store maybe some sqlite
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<shevy>
sounds trivial
<shevy>
perhaps you can even use sequel
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<livcd>
shevy: well i hope it's trivial :-))
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<livcd>
I am concerned about how do I compose things..If I'll have a single class with many methods or a module with dozens of classes. I'd like to keep it small but be able to add "bloat" incrementally
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<livcd>
maybe i should read about some design patterns or finally JDI
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<shevy>
start with a single class anyway
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<DEA7TH>
Ruby has no sum method? I have to do [1,2,3].reduce(:+) ?
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<apeiros>
IMO cucumber is not well suited for anything below large enterprise. and even there I'm not sure it's a fit. you still need to understand too much about how programming works. otherwise programmers will have to rewrite your stories.
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<agent_white>
If the shoe fits. Use it.
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<ratsss>
Hmm, so I tried just editing that line out.
<ratsss>
then reinstlaling rubygems
<ratsss>
and that seems to have done it
<ratsss>
hurah
<apeiros>
ratsss: you generally shouldn't touch system ruby
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<Eising>
apeiros: it seems that homebrew is to blame
<apeiros>
install and maintain your own ruby. much less problematic.
<Eising>
but yes, that advise I can back
<ratsss>
yah
<apeiros>
Eising: the paths in their paste are all from system ruby
<Eising>
right
<apeiros>
if homebrew is to blame (which is entirely possible, as it does a couple of things in the most crappy way possible), then it's quite bad (yet again), as it'd mean that it touches system ruby.
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<shevy>
:D
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<cmolenda>
ratsss: Just curious, what does "which gem" get you?
<shevy>
great evil!
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<ratsss>
oh wait no it isn't fixed at all
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<ratsss>
if I rm that line, ruby now works if I run it as root
<ratsss>
and root can install gems
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<ratsss>
but then once root installs gems, it's broken for my user again :O
<ratsss>
like wut
<cmolenda>
as your user, what does running "which gem" give you?
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<cmolenda>
hah, wow
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<ratsss>
and my rvm ruby works fine
<apeiros>
rvm implode
<apeiros>
and start over ;-)
<cmolenda>
definitely
<cmolenda>
implode and start over with rbenv :p
<apeiros>
or `rvm get stable` first
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<ratsss>
ok I've killed rvm entirely
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<ratsss>
http://dpaste.com/0KFQM39 ok this looks healthier, but ruby still only works if I manually remove that thing from rubygems.rb
<cmolenda>
just a heads up, rvm does a bunch of strange things, such as changing the native change directory "cd" command of your system
<apeiros>
ok, I'd have tried cleanup, repair and fix-permissions first
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<apeiros>
but nuking might be a good idea if you have an ancient rvm.
<ratsss>
yeah
<ratsss>
so I nuked rvm
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<ratsss>
now using system ruby
<ratsss>
which i'm fine with
<apeiros>
cmolenda: do you happen to know how e.g. direnv does its job?
<ratsss>
but want rubygems to not break at first thing
<ratsss>
gem --version === 2.4.8
<ratsss>
perhaps system gems needs more updated system ruby??
<cmolenda>
apeiros: Nope, not familiar, sorry.
<shevy>
ratsss what ruby version? 2.3.0 has a more recent gem version
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<ratsss>
2.0.0
<ratsss>
I don't know if you can upgrade system version on OSX
<cmolenda>
apeiros: is that an example of something that changes system functionality for good reason?
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<ratsss>
unless I can and should
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<ratsss>
I think that was the rationale behind getting rvm in the first place
<apeiros>
cmolenda: no, I just wonder how many people use direnv, which probably changes cd too (can't imagine how it'd work otherwise), but shame rvm for changing cd
<pontiki>
ruby-install + chruby
<ratsss>
So I'm wondering if I've updated the system gems to a version not supported by ruby 2.0.0
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<ratsss>
can anyone else do /usr/bin/gem --version on OSX?
<apeiros>
ratsss: as said, you shouldn't touch system ruby
<apeiros>
and the developer of anything which touches system ruby should be flogged publicly :)
<ratsss>
apeiros: ikr, apparently I didn't understand this when I got the laptop
<cmolenda>
apeiros: That's an interesting tool, either way. Yeah, I mean, I figure if something like a system command is going to be changed it should be done carefully and since rbenv gives just as good, if not better (as far as I've experienced) functionality without the system changes.
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<pontiki>
i get 2.0.14, ratsss
<ratsss>
interesting
<ratsss>
I'm going to downgrade in that case
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<apeiros>
cmolenda: never used rbenv - how does rbenv juggle the rubies?
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<ratsss>
COOL
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<ratsss>
that seems to have sorted it entirely
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<apeiros>
ratsss: "that"? imploding and reinstalling rvm?
<cmolenda>
apeiros: it creates shims that it references for whichever ruby you want it to point to. Then, based on the folder you're in, it looks for a hidden file (.rbenvrc i think?) that specifies which ruby should be used and it loads up the appropriate shim.
<apeiros>
or updating/reinstalling rubygems?
<ratsss>
apeiros: downgrading system rubygems
<ratsss>
i dont think rvm was the issue
<pontiki>
rbenv also supports the .ruby-version file
<ratsss>
I think I'd updated system rubygems to a version that is unsupported by 2.0.0
<cmolenda>
ah, yeah, .ruby-version
<cmolenda>
that's what I meant
<apeiros>
cmolenda: so the ruby in PATH must be a shim itself which contains the switching logic?
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<apeiros>
I might make a mess, but isn't rbenv rather unsupported/maintained? at least I seem to remember that almost always when somebody had a problem here with it, nobody was able to help.
<apeiros>
not sure which one people recommended more in here, but iirc it was chruby?
<apeiros>
(and I don't know how that one works either)
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<cmolenda>
but also, i've never had a problem with it
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<cmolenda>
so i've not had to deal with the support community (knock on wood) and can't speak to that
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<apeiros>
I *really* hate how `man <some builtin>` does NOT bring up proper man for that built-in but instead bash's help.
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<apeiros>
I really really hate that. soooo f*cking useless.
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<apeiros>
cmolenda: I see. similar to my rvm experience then :D
<apeiros>
(main reason I'm still on it)
<cmolenda>
yeah, honestly, use whatever works. Place I recently worked at has been using it in production for a very long time without issue.
<shevy>
bash, aren't you on OSX? do they use bash too?
<cmolenda>
But since ratsss was having an issue with one, i figured i'd suggest my preference
<ddv>
apeiros: dash is pretty usefull too search manual pages
<ddv>
apeiros: dash app
<apeiros>
ddv: don't want to pay for that
<ddv>
apeiros: ask your employer :p
<ddv>
besides you make plenty of cash
<shevy>
:D
<ddv>
like seriously
<apeiros>
ddv: I've got principles
<apeiros>
I know, hard to believe, but I really do :)
<apeiros>
and yeah, at work I think we even have licenses.
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<ddv>
you're stubborn apeiros
<ddv>
:p
<apeiros>
but internets to the rescue. apparently you have to use `help` instead of `man` for builtins.
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<apeiros>
ddv: that too.
<apeiros>
ddv: aaand stubborn about my principles :D
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<ddv>
yeah
<ddv>
:p
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<apeiros>
re rvm - should rvm2 have been ready ~1y ago?
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<shevy>
hehe
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<apeiros>
shevy: could be one of mine or your projects, eh? :D
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<agent_white>
apeiros: Where are you from?
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<agent_white>
apeiros: Sorry, offtopic -- just rememberd you asking how to say something in english a few hours ago.
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<apeiros>
agent_white: CH
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<agent_white>
And odd I never noticed you weren't native until today. Your english is kickass.
<agent_white>
apeiros: Ah!
<apeiros>
agent_white: thanks :D
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<domgetter>
wings of a feather?
<shevy>
apeiros yeah! I think most of these projects follow a similar pattern e. g. install into the home directory and make things work right from there
<agent_white>
Haha of course. You've 'fooled' me for two years or more, so that says something.
<ddv>
g.
<ddv>
gangsta
<shevy>
but your comment about rvm2 I found funny because it was along the lines of "we should have had the future already in the past!" :D
<agent_white>
245
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<apeiros>
domgetter: wings/birds of a feather, feeling with you etc. all don't really have the intended ring IMO :-/
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<domgetter>
commiserator?
<domgetter>
(though that's borderline made-up)
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<apeiros>
german is just so much better at self-pitying idioms ;-)
<domgetter>
that is, while it's not in the dictionary, anyone who knew what commiserate meant would know what you mean
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<agent_white>
commiserate - "express or feel sympathy or pity"
<agent_white>
I had to google it. Hope to have saved another a trip.
* apeiros
wields the power of latin
<domgetter>
I just remember it as co-misery
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<domgetter>
to be miserable with
<agent_white>
Hahaha nice.
<agent_white>
I just remember... I should google it. :D
<apeiros>
latin + german helps to get around understanding an awful lot of west-european languages
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<domgetter>
I guess it's a blessing and a curse that English is best understood through French
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<domgetter>
of course, thank you for the word "twelve"
<apeiros>
zwölf?
<apeiros>
like… so french? :)
<domgetter>
I was thanking you specifically. though the context was ambiguous
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<agent_white>
It's a curse that folks here in the US aren't taught languages fully like in the EU... normally we only have a requirement to pick one of 3-4 languages and take it for a year.
<apeiros>
ah, yes, you set up the context as if you were thanking the french for twelve :)
<livcd>
anyone built a mariadb on alpine container ?
<apeiros>
I don't like our numbering system tbh
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<apeiros>
but… we're quite ot actually :D
<apeiros>
livcd: no, anyone uses postgres
<livcd>
apeiros: doh wrong channel
<domgetter>
In California we have a choice between a foreign language and an art like choir or something. so you don't even need to touch a language to graduate high school
<apeiros>
livcd: you might ask someone, though, I think someone used mariadb
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<apeiros>
domgetter: I think that's pretty sad
<livcd>
uhm why would you guys want to force people in the US to learn another lang ?
<agent_white>
domgetter: Ah no shit?! Required just 2 semesters/one year of a foreign language here in Colorado.
<apeiros>
learning another language is IMO pivotal for perspective in thinking.
<livcd>
apeiros: why would that be ?
<agent_white>
livcd: Force? No. The question is, why would you be opposed to it?>
<domgetter>
its okay, I did both. 4 years of choir, and zwei und ein halb jahren of Deutsch
<apeiros>
livcd: because language informs thinking
<apeiros>
livcd: research it a bit. it's astounding how much of our thinking critically depends on how we express ourselves through language
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<apeiros>
it's not much different from how you solve the same problem differently depending on which programming language you use.
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<livcd>
a lot of asians are forced to learn english yet there is still too few of them that are able to express themselves freely
<agent_white>
livcd: Programming as a whole is in english. It's weird to try to imagine if it weren't... at least I can't.
<agent_white>
s/is in/is largely in/
<apeiros>
livcd: not quite sure what you want to say with that
<apeiros>
livcd: can you express yourself freely in an asian language?
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<livcd>
apeiros: kind of
<norc>
Okay... I just learned about the existence of $_ in Ruby, and that it does not behave nicely....
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<bhaak>
livcd: think about how reading stuff from only one author would be limiting. the same with languages. also, you get a change of indulging into a culture different from your own.
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<livcd>
bhaak: one should be able to choose what language (and if any) he wants to study
<apeiros>
livcd: (re why learn another language) also it might be a good way to learn a bit of humility
<norc>
Honest question, what exactly is $_ - it does not seem to behave exactly like a variable but I cannot figure out what it is.
<apeiros>
livcd: I've met so many americans who were like "yeah, why doesn't everybody just learn english, it's so easy you know"
<apeiros>
livcd: and they were completely oblivious as to how much effort it is to actually master a foreign language, themselves only knowing english…
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<ddv>
yeah try learning Dutch
<ddv>
or Chinese
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<norc>
>> p $___
<livcd>
apeiros: i agree and understand that but i think that the main purpose of a language is to pass information as easily as possible
<apeiros>
livcd: yes. hence also the stuff I mentioned first.
<bhaak>
livcd: we're talking about kids here. would you also say "one should be able to choose what part of mathematic (and if any) they want to study"?
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<livcd>
bhaak: so you would give kids (or their parents) a list of languages and force them to choose one as a secondary lang ?
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<bhaak>
livcd: I don't have to. our schools already do that :-]
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<bhaak>
although the "choose from" part is not as conditional as it could be
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<livcd>
apeiros: well my comment about asians was that they are "forced" to learn english but they are so disconnected from the english speaking world that it has a minimal impact on the people
<norc>
livcd: The whole idea of mandatory school revolves around the assumptions that children don't know what they will probably need to be able to do most things later on.
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<norc>
livcd: Having a mandatory language is not that much different.
<norc>
Anyway, back to my Ruby question:
<bhaak>
livcd: I learnt Latin at school. how more disconnected can you be from a language and culture than a language and culture that has been dead for more than 1000 years?
<norc>
What the heck is $_
<livcd>
norc: well the generation of my parents have been given an opportunity (lol not really) to learn russian and nowdays it's very much useless for them
<Mon_Ouie>
The last line that has been read using gets
<bhaak>
livcd: despite that, it had quite an impat on my personal development. it depends on how you learn a language and what goes with it.
<Mon_Ouie>
I've only ever used it with ruby -pe '…'
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<norc>
Mon_Ouie: Then why does something like: puts -e "puts $_.class" just throw weird exceptions?
<norc>
errr: ruby -e "puts $_.class"
<Mon_Ouie>
$_ is being replaced by your shell if you use double quotes
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<Mon_Ouie>
ruby e 'puts $_.class' prints NilClass
<Mon_Ouie>
-e*
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<norc>
Mon_Ouie: Oh well. Thank you for solving my weirdest headache in a while.
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<Mon_Ouie>
It's part of the method name, gsub and gsub! are two different methods
<Mon_Ouie>
The bang variant usually implies that it's a more "dangerous" form of the regular method. In the cases you mention, it means that the method modifies the receiver (x) instead of returning a new string.
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<sivam>
Mon_Ouie: Thanks for clear explanation. got it. so gsub doesn't modifies the argument and gsub! modifies the arg
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<Mon_Ouie>
Not the argument, the object on which you call the method
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<jmonreal>
anyone on how to rotate properly log files?
<jmonreal>
created with logger.rb lib
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<jmonreal>
hello
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<havenwood>
jmonreal: hi
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<jmonreal>
the size I changed it for testing, because it was not rotating after the size
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<jmonreal>
havenwood: I got the error, instead of using file I just passed the filename and now it works!
<jmonreal>
like a charm
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<atmosx>
Papierkorb: for parsing I guess.
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<atmosx>
Papierkorb: I have a 'string' (file) which has data formatted in JSON. However, I parse the file with ruby or python comes up with JSON:ERROR which means that it's not valid.
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<Papierkorb>
So?
<atmosx>
the strange thing I noticed is that if it's 1 line, it parses nicely, if I add a second line it doesn't.
<atmosx>
I wanna know where's the error
<Papierkorb>
ask the parser for the error position?
<ja>
but 2.3?! so I’ve been able to use it since December 25 without realizing? O_O Thanks, ljarvis & shlomo! I’ve got tons of find/replace work to do now, hehe; brb
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<ljarvis>
generally when you see a parse error like that, it's worth combing the line number with your eyes a couple of times. Chances are something will pop out
<ljarvis>
and when it doesn't, there's always other peoples eyes :)
<atmosx>
no that's not it, removing hits again with an error.
<atmosx>
ljarvis: thanks :-)
<ljarvis>
also *technically* the document isn't valid JSON at all
<ljarvis>
it's JSON delimited by newlines
<atmosx>
ljarvis: so json doesn't have new lines?
<atmosx>
I see
<ljarvis>
which most parsers wont handle. You'll want to use YAYL
<ljarvis>
er
<ljarvis>
YAJL?
<ljarvis>
it'll parse those, but really you should prefer valid JSON for the entire document
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<ljarvis>
atmosx: I mean there's no surrounding object, it's just JSON objects delimited by newlines
<ljarvis>
if you added [ and ] it would be valid
<ljarvis>
(and commas separating the objects)
<atmosx>
ah I see
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<ljarvis>
this method is usually used for JSON http streaming
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<ljarvis>
(since there might technically *never* be a document end
<ljarvis>
)
<ljarvis>
meta sentence there
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<ljarvis>
also the rogue } I thought of was because I missed the starting { :) see, always worth scanning it by eye a few times
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<atmosx>
jlyndon: indeed, if I add square brackets and commas works!
<ljarvis>
yep, now you have an array of objects (in javascript speak)
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<ljarvis>
class A; def b?; false; end; end; class B < A; def b?; true; end; end vs class A; def b?; is_a?(B); end; which and why?
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<apeiros>
ljarvis: former. doesn't require knowledge about B in A.
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<ljarvis>
that was my thinking too, don't have anything better than that, but that probably doesn't matter
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<[spoiler]>
gosh inline code gives me such a headache lmao
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<ljarvis>
heh my brain removes the semi-colons and formats it in a relatively timely manner so it's not too offensive
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<canton7>
I didn't spot the 'vs' in the middle until I tried to actually run it :P
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<ljarvis>
I could have done a better job of formatting it though
<ljarvis>
hah yeah good point, canton7
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<ljarvis>
->{{}&.dig(%%%,??)}&.===
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<dvxam>
hello here
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<dvxam>
Does anyone knows if regex are "classic" object in ruby? I'm concerns about how it's memory are allocated/free
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<volty>
can I make a gem install verbose ?
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<shevy>
volty you mean a compiled gem?
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<volty>
hi shevy, i am reinstalling qtbindings and would like to see what's going on
<shevy>
yeah hmmm
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<shevy>
gem list has --details but I suppose this is available only to that subcommand
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<volty>
Yes. Should I try to run its extconf in a separate dir ?
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<shevy>
if you run extconf.rb manually, you should get the full output directly... but I think there is a way to do this with gem too, I don't have it noted down but I vaguely remember that this was possible
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<ellistaa>
is an object an abstract data type?
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<volty>
if I run it manually, into another, separate directory, extconf is going to copy ?
<shevy>
it is not very abstract, you have methods to query or manipulate the data
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<jhass>
ellistaa: I guess people argue so
<shevy>
volty I don't know if it works in a separate directory, but if I run extconf.rb manually or copy setup.rb, I can get things to compile or at least see the root cause of the problem on the terminal; I do this when I install the rubygnome bindings for instance, an alias called "trainst" for "traverse_install" to enter every directory and run setup.rb or extconf.rb there (I don't remember which one it was offha
<shevy>
nd)
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<ellistaa>
ok cool
<volty>
ellistaa: it all depends on what you have to do, for example its 'to_s' is abstract since you don't get a meaningful result (for your context). It's not abstract as in C++
<volty>
ok shevy, thx
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<zacts>
hey rubyists
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<Darmani>
It is raining so hard over here..
<Darmani>
How am I supposed to write code with all this rain?!
<Darmani>
Q.Q
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<lucasb>
hi! If I type ARGV.class I get a class named ARGF.class? ARGF.class.to_s returns "ARGF.class". Is this expected?
<centrx>
You mean ARGF.class
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<lucasb>
yes, sorry, I mean ARGF
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<Ox0dea>
Consistency with... the likes of NilClass?
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<apeiros>
or Module even
<eam>
or the naming conventions of class names
<apeiros>
no, revoke that
<apeiros>
would cause troubles with include etc.
<eam>
what if I build a system in a database to store class names of objects, maybe I'm doing some kind of GC profiler
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<eam>
and I put a reasonable constraint on the class name table based on ruby's class name restrictions (no dot)
<eam>
ARGF blows up my database
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<apeiros>
Ox0dea: the likes of NilClass - there's 3 of those - true/false/nil all follow the same pattern. but IMO it doesn't need 2 levels. ARGF can just be an instance of Object.
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<apeiros>
so, revoke my ARGF.class # => Class and Module, replace it with ARGF.class # => Object
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<apeiros>
define all its behavior in ARGF.singleton_class
<pryster>
>> foo&.[0]
<ruboto>
pryster # => /tmp/execpad-ecb102cf818e/source-ecb102cf818e:2: syntax error, unexpected '.' ...check link for more (https://eval.in/497800)
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<pryster>
Why does Ruby 2.3 choke on this? :(
<apeiros>
pryster: &.[](0)
<aegis3121>
^
<pryster>
apeiros: Oh lord...
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<apeiros>
pryster: because &: does not work with syntax sugar
<apeiros>
&.
<apeiros>
pryster: same for +, - etc.
<apeiros>
and != apparently (re blog post)
<Ox0dea>
pryster: You can't say `foo.[0]` either, so you shouldn't be surprised.
<apeiros>
^
<pryster>
Ox0dea: Maybe I should take a look at how this was implemented...
<Ox0dea>
pryster: Why?
<apeiros>
pryster: no, just understand that the method name is []
<apeiros>
and that calling it via [arg1, …] is syntax sugar
<Ox0dea>
>> class C; def [] a, b; a + b end end; C.new[17, 25] # pryster
<eam>
how do I overload the subtraction operator in the expression 5e-10 + 1
<eam>
er, the unary minus operator I mean
<Ox0dea>
There is no subtraction operator there.
<Ox0dea>
Nor that.
<eam>
;)
<Ox0dea>
<3
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<eam>
I mean, mathmatically there is
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<Darmani>
Ox0dea: Good morning sweetheart<33
<Ox0dea>
Ohai, Darmani!
<Ox0dea>
Did you eat a well-balanced breakfast?
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<Darmani>
I went to a diner.
<Darmani>
does that count? lol
<Ox0dea>
Maybe?
<Ox0dea>
Did you eat the seating arrangements?
<Darmani>
the seating arrangements??
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<Darmani>
dafuq
<Ox0dea>
You ever put chicken in an omelette?
<chadhs>
are many of your managing ruby processes with supervisor?
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<chadhs>
having a heck of a time getting something like this `cd /home/app && sudo -u appuser bundle exec /home/app/ruby_daemon -d` to work in supervisor
<Darmani>
Ox0dea: Chicken?
<Darmani>
In an omelette?
<Darmani>
Why would you ruin a perfectly good omelette?
<jbrhbr>
chadhs: supervisor lets you specify a user and a directory, i don't see why that would be in your command
<Ox0dea>
Darmani: Pfft. It's delicious.
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<norc>
Oh. Somehow it kept the nick weird.
<norc>
Anyway
<jbrhbr>
(maybe irrelevant but that's all i see)
<chadhs>
jbrhbr: it's not, i've tried that, but that command works in a simple shell script
<Ox0dea>
But wrapping something in its own liquefied babies and cooking it is the most disrespectful thing ever.
<Darmani>
Ox0dea: Lmao the eggs have feelings now do they?
<adaedra>
Off-topic? In my #ruby? More likely than you think!
<Darmani>
god the lives I've taken over the years....
<Ox0dea>
Darmani: You kill your food?
<chadhs>
i'm probably missing something that sudo -u appuser is giving me ENV wise
<Darmani>
Ox0dea: If it's not dead already then yeah
<jbrhbr>
chadhs: all i can suggest is to try to use the proper supervisor settings for this. `sudo` and `cd` shouldnt' be in there
<Darmani>
Someone has to.
<Ox0dea>
What is dead may never die.
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<chadhs>
Ox0dea: technically those are unfertilized eggs
<Ox0dea>
chadhs: You're not wrong.
<Darmani>
Ox0dea: valar morghulis
<chadhs>
Hen periods
<Ox0dea>
Darmani: Jon Starkgaryen = Azor Ahai?
<norc>
Ox0dea: It is all clear now, I understand how foo[] is parsed now - and why a&.[0] cannot be simply patched in.
<Ox0dea>
norc: Via -y?
<Darmani>
lmao idk who Azoe Ahai is :3
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<chadhs>
jbrhbr: correct, i'll keep playing around with it and hit up the supervisor irc as well thnx
<norc>
Ox0dea: With the help of and just figuring out some other parts of the syntax.
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<norc>
The implementation of &. is surprisingly simple.
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<Ox0dea>
I looked at it when it was .?, but not deeply.
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<Ox0dea>
Does & (the #to_proc operator) throw any spanners into the works?
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<MattV>
I'm trying to optimize an Ansible playbook and at this point the Ruby install is the longest running step (typically 7+ minutes). Any tips for speeding up "rbenv install 2.1.2"?
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<Darmani>
So guys. I'm kinda stuck.
<lucasb>
So I understood ARGF.class is just a minor internal detail, harmless. I'll not get surprised next time I see it. Thanks everybody for answering.
<Darmani>
I'm supposed to create methods like .each, and .eachwithindex etc. But I'm not sure how to do that.
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<jhass>
Darmani: with def
<Darmani>
I know I need to use yield in some way... but idk how to do it Q.Q
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<jhass>
which tutorial are you following?
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<Darmani>
Well the website is called "The Odin Project" but it's not a tutorial
<Darmani>
It's my next challenge I suppose.
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<jhass>
if you're unable to look up "ruby yield" or "how is each implemented in ruby" another way to learn ruby might be better for you
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<norc>
Ox0dea: Most of the work on that big advertised feature was just the discussions about whether it should look like &., .? or `}~
<Darmani>
jhass: Lol wow.
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<Darmani>
jhass: What's the point of this chatroom then? If you can look up everything then why is anyone even here?
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<norc>
Darmani: If you want us to write code for you? Hire us. If you want us to be a fully fledged teacher? Hire us. If you have a specific question that you have exhausted your own options? Ask us.
<norc>
It is that simple.
<jhass>
Darmani: see the channel rules, 2.2 and 2.3 in particular
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<Darmani>
norc: Hmm. That's a good point.
<Darmani>
norc: Well said. I rest my case.
<Ox0dea>
Darmani: On the flip side, what's the point of Google if nobody uses it?
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<Darmani>
Ox0dea: No one asked for your opinion xP
<Ox0dea>
And yet I kindly supplied it.
<Ox0dea>
See how much I love you?
<Darmani>
lmao is that love?
<Darmani>
I don't want it.
<norc>
Isn't Ox0dea gracious.
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<Darmani>
norc: Like a god come down to grace me with his presence.
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<norc>
Darmani: Respecting the hierarchy is a good start.
<jhass>
can we skip the noise please? thanks
<norc>
Ox0dea: Back to topic. What did you mean with regards to to_proc?
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<Darmani>
norc: Will do captain.
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<Ox0dea>
norc: `foo&:bar` parses.
<norc>
What.
<Ox0dea>
>> [1,2,3].map&:succ
<ruboto>
Ox0dea # => undefined method `&' for #<Enumerator: [1, 2, 3]:map> (NoMethodError) ...check link for more (https://eval.in/497813)
<Ox0dea>
Er... it parses, but it doesn't do the right thing. :P
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<norc>
Yeah I can see that.
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<Ox0dea>
I thought it might've been something that needed taken into consideration for `&.`.
<Darmani>
norc: I'm curious. How much would it cost to hire you for a tutoring sort of position?
<norc>
Darmani: You would have to ask my employer.
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<eam>
Darmani: I'll tutor you for free, if you ask directed and specific questions
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<Darmani>
eam: umm. What's your favorite color?
<eam>
Darmani: questions related to your ruby issue
<Darmani>
eam: I know I'm kidding =P
<eam>
;)
<Darmani>
eam: Thanks though I'll pm you if that's cool(:
<eam>
well, I'd rather do it in the channel so everyone can learn too
<Darmani>
But they don't want me to ask questions if I don't google the shit out of them first lol
<eam>
what would help is to phrase stuff like "I tried X in implementing each() but I'm stuck on Y"
<norc>
Ox0dea: Checking now, I have absolutely no clue how &:sym is implemented.
<eam>
you don't need to google -- but being more specific about what you've tried and where you're confused is pretty important
<Darmani>
jhass: Thanks you sir. I'll read that ^^
<Ox0dea>
Darmani: How might you iterate over a collection without #each?
<jhass>
?guys Darmani
<ruboto>
Darmani, Though inclusion was probably intended, not everyone relates to being "one of the guys". Maybe consider using "folks", "all", "y'all", or "everyone" instead?
<Darmani>
Ox0dea: For i in ___?
<eam>
he didn't even say guys
<Darmani>
I would assume.
<Ox0dea>
Darmani: That's one way to do it, sure.
<baweaver>
Python yeah
<jhass>
eam: actually they did
<baweaver>
Does Ruby have for in? Can't remember
<baweaver>
never used it
<Ox0dea>
It does, but it literally gets turned into a call to #each.
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<baweaver>
I just never use it so I never remember :P
<Mon_Ouie>
Also the iterator variable has a different reach than when you use #each
<Darmani>
Ox0dea: hang on
<Ox0dea>
>> class C; def each; 42 end end; for _ in C.new; end
<jhass>
Darmani: you should discard it and try to find another solution
<norc>
Ox0dea: Well, if the whole parser got rewritten as a recursive descent parser - it would probably eliminate most of it and allow for new things.
<jhass>
explaining it requires understanding the other solution(s) first
<Darmani>
jhass: I should? why???
<jhass>
see above
<norc>
Ox0dea: There is a lot of it to make a non LALR syntax work somehow.
<jhass>
and given the frequency with which you write I don't believe you that you spent serious thought on it
<Ox0dea>
And it's prime!
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<zotherstupidguy>
Darmani whats the q?
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<Darmani>
zotherstupidguy: Meh it's nothing. I have like 6 people helping me.
<Darmani>
I'll figure it out.
<Darmani>
Thank you though.
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<Darmani>
jhass: Well if the answer has to do with Mixins. I obviously don't understand them as well as I should.
<Darmani>
I thought I just needed to require the module I made.
<Darmani>
But that's not it.
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<jhass>
do you know the difference between a method and a function?
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<Darmani>
No.
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<norc>
Ox0dea: Though I think the issue here is just rather simplistic syntax highlighting on eval.in side.
<norc>
It should be able to highlight the actual string.
<jhass>
Darmani: look it up then ;)
<Darmani>
I guess.
<Ox0dea>
norc: Aye, Vim handles it just fine.
<Ox0dea>
I was pleased to see eval.in doesn't. :)
<jhass>
and if you workshop or whatever throws you into all this claiming it's okay for complete beginners, it's bullshit, should be distrusted and replaced ;)
<norc>
Ox0dea: Im pleased to see eval.in has Ruby 2.3 already. :)
<norc>
Though the whole thing feels completely lack luster already.
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<Ox0dea>
Ouch.
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<Ox0dea>
I do think `%d[1 2 3]` and `[1, 2r, 3.14].all?(Numeric)` would've been shiny.
<norc>
Here we go again....
<norc>
:-)
<Ox0dea>
I'll stop, then.
<norc>
No it is fine, I thought about it a good while and you are absolutely right.
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<norc>
The second I would see actual use in a lot of places.
<norc>
The first is just, well - it should have been there already.
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<norc>
>> puts(1 if 1)
<ruboto>
norc # => /tmp/execpad-a03929076af6/source-a03929076af6:2: syntax error, unexpected modifier_if, expecting ')' ...check link for more (https://eval.in/497826)
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<norc>
This one is still bugging me. :S
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<jbrhbr>
norc: you mean it's bugging you because you're reading through the parser code to try and understand why?
<norc>
jbrhbr: I think I understand why at this point.
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<norc>
Im just a bit scared to actually try and patch it.
<jbrhbr>
:)
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<norc>
I mean it would actually be sweet, since it would make things like: method(arg, {opt: 1} if setting.true?) a bit more readable than wrapping it inside parens.
<norc>
Not that a setting.true? would by itself help with readability, but anyway...
<Ox0dea>
jbrhbr: They're not odd if you use them appropriately. :)
<tubbo>
Darmani: no i meant with the SO article
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<Darmani>
oh.
<tubbo>
explains the diff between a method and a function pretty clearly imho
<jbrhbr>
heh, happy new year Ox!
<Ox0dea>
Darmani: Name your module Enumerable. :P
<norc>
Ox0dea: They are just odd in that too many people abuse them, and sooner or later you will work on a project that is just riddled with a mixture of both, filled with parens to "fix" the wrong precedence order...
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<norc>
Which is annoying.
<Ox0dea>
>> 'Happy New Year, #rudy! <3'.bytes.reduce :+
<norc>
tubbo: Oh oh. Is that from ECMA6 and I missed it completely?
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<norc>
tubbo: I kinda like how that feature is not implemented on any browser yet. :-)
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<norc>
tubbo: Anyhow. I stand corrected.
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<tubbo>
norc: yup :)
<tubbo>
i'm surprised that any of the ES6 features are implemented in any browser
<tubbo>
:P
<norc>
Well, Promises are about the most exciting thing in my opinion.
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<tubbo>
i like the class syntax
<norc>
Well its just syntactic sugar.
<tubbo>
but modules are probably the most important thing
<norc>
And the issue with that is is that people will step away from looking at JS as a prototype based language.
<tubbo>
that's my fear as well
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<norc>
Well, Promises by themselves greatly reduce the need to load jQuery, promisejs or your own implementation in half the implementations - just because you want that pattern.
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<tubbo>
norc: did that happen with coffeescript? did people use CS as a classically-inherited language?
<norc>
Well, iterators are absolutely ugly to use in C++ too, but they are useful there too.
<norc>
;-)
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<tubbo>
i just wish it was like Ruby wherein all you have to do is mix in a module and define each()
<norc>
tubbo: Also all the magic things like $ itself give you the impression that jQuery modifies the language.
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<norc>
But if you understand that $ is just a function object that just acts differently depending on what it gets passed, things are a lot more obvious
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<norc>
Starting developers completely dont understand it and often end up in ##jquery asking all kinds of weird questions.
<tubbo>
i dunno, i never got that impression
<tubbo>
but i can see why one might
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<norc>
tubbo: Or another common problem is cloning an object.
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<Darin_>
Hey, if I want to call a function in another function as a result of a if/else statement do I just say if x (name of method) else (name of other method)?
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<norc>
darin_: Try it out and see what happens.
<tubbo>
norc: compared to the DOM, jQuery is the greatest API ever made.
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<norc>
tubbo: Absolutely. A lot of it has become obsolete due to new features in ECMAScript however.
<Darin_>
I did, but I suck at coding and Im not sure what my problem is. Either way, it's not getting the result I want.
<norc>
But the sheer power of selectors alone just makes me keep it.
<norc>
darin_: Then share us your code and the error message you are getting
<MattV>
I'm trying to optimize an Ansible playbook where the Ruby install is the longest running step (typically 7+ minutes). Any tips for speeding up "rbenv install 2.1.2"?
<eam>
MattV: try profiling it. Is it installing a precompiled ruby?
<norc>
That code reflects what a Module is and how it should be used.
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<eam>
MattV: likely the time is either spent in downloading the stuff to install (in which case, caching the objects will be a big win) or in compiling a custom ruby (is a native prebuilt ruby available for your platform/version target?)
<Darin_>
And when I actually give some arguments, the numbers are way off.
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<Darmani>
norc: So you can use the same word in different instances?
<Darmani>
That's what it's for?
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<norc>
Darmani: Think of it the other way around. It is for mixing common functionality into seperate things
<eam>
MattV: you can do some simple profiling by just watching the output and seeing what happens when, since rvm prints out what it's doing
<norc>
Darmani: Let me modify and show you
<Darmani>
Ok...
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<Diranged>
Hey on an older Ubuntu 12 system, we're installing the ruby-rest-client package which istalls the gem into //usr/lib/ruby/vendor_ruby/restclient .. but we're finding that it doesnt show up in gem list, so anything that depends on it tries to install the latest rest-client package.
<Diranged>
On ubunt 14 (with rubygems-integration instead of rubygems), works fine..
<Diranged>
I know it sucks to support Ubuntu 12, but we hae to right now.. is there a hack to make gem properly see gems in /usr/lib/ruby/vendor_ruby/restclient?
<Diranged>
er .. in vendor_ruby
<MattV>
eam: As far as I can tell, it shouldn't be the download that's taking so long. When I try downloading the https://cache.ruby-lang.org/pub/ruby/2.1/ruby-2.1.2.tar.bz2 file manually, it typically downloads in less than 30 seconds.
<brendan->
Diranged: can you add that path to the GEM_PATH?
<brendan->
(i'm shooting in the dark)
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<eam>
MattV: sorry I just noticed you said rbenv not rvm - does it have a verbose mode where it prints out what it's doing?
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<norc>
MattV: You could look into skipping the dev documentations, the whole ri generation thing makes up for considerable time.
<eam>
if so, try piping it through something to attach a timestamp to each line, so you can see where it's spending time. Something like |ruby -ne'puts Time.now.to_s + " " + $_'
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<Diranged>
brendan-: trid that, no change?
<norc>
MattV: For me a fresh build on trunk usually takes around 2 1/2 minutes on my old macbook air.
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<MattV>
eam: From what I could tell in the documentation, it doesn't have a —verbose flag.
<norc>
Diranged: It is best to not install Ruby things through your package manager at all.
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<Darmani>
norc: Okay.
<Darmani>
I think I get it.
<Diranged>
norc: thats not an option for me in this case..
<MattV>
norc: There are NFS mounts on the VM where Ruby is being installed, but I don't think Ruby is installing to one of the NFS mounts. I will double check though. Thanks!
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<apeiros>
darin_: you know, if you call the gist .rb, it will properly highlight the code
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<eam>
norc: your macbook air would probably thrash most spinny-disk based servers on compilation time
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<eam>
7 minutes on a hard disk vs 2 minutes on an SSD sounds about right
<Darin_>
??? Not sure I know what you mean.
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<norc>
eam: spinny what?
<norc>
:-)
<eam>
indeed -- but MattV may have a disk :)
<Darin_>
Oh, never mind. I see now.thanks I'll fix that.
<norc>
eam: Sorry, Ive been using ssds for such a long time now, I have kind of forgotten why I did the change in the first place.
<apeiros>
darin_: and the reason nothing is printed - because you don't call any method which prints anything
<eam>
we no longer run any of our datastore systems on spinning rust, it's just way too slow
<apeiros>
(well, you do: get_temparature, but that only prints if no temperature was given in the args)
<MattV>
eam: I do have an SSD in my host OS (OS X). The Ruby install is happening in an Ubuntu guest. I'm not sure how much overhead VirtualBox adds though.
<eam>
MattV: oh, VM can add a great deal of latency
<apeiros>
eam: aren't you the one working in a shop with >10k servers?
<norc>
eam: Honestly the fix for databases is not SSDs. It is just throwing so much RAM at it that it can hold the entire database in memory.
<norc>
Which granted is more expensive, but *that* provides for real speed,.
<eam>
apeiros: these days I'm working in a much smaller scale operation, but in the past, yes, >100k
<Darin_>
I see that. I am learning that ugly code usually doesn't run right, and if it doesn't "feel" right, it probably isn't. And I added some trash to an if/then nested in the if/then statement and it just messed up.
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<apeiros>
oh, even 3 orders of magnitudes more :D
<eam>
norc: except for write heavy loads
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<eam>
agreed re: caching however
<norc>
eam: Yeah I suppose. Im just a bit biased since most my work was read focused.
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<eam>
yeah, I've done read heavy in the past (ad serving, search) and it's entirely as you describe
<norc>
The work related to databases anyway.
<eam>
now I do a lot of transactional stuff
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<eam>
a server grade ssd is stupid fast compared to the stuff in a laptop as well
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<eam>
it's also very nice not having to constantly swap disks out of a huge array
<norc>
eam: Though since I switched things have become much more relaxed. All our databases are stored on a clustered NFS solution for maximum availability (which has still fairly decent throughput, but horrid seek times for obvious reasons).
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<norc>
But they can still be held in memory.
<eam>
yeah, it's always seeks and latency that are the killer
<norc>
Yup
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<norc>
I think for us this NFS cluster is actually ideal, since it is a transparent solution to replication which adds 0 maintenance or setup work for us.
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<eam>
well, what do you use to actually replicate the data? A filer or some kind of block level replication?
<norc>
NetApp Filer
<eam>
standard and solid, if expensive :)
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<norc>
Yeah. It also serves the VMware images, so it simultaneously provides automatic recovery on everything.
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<norc>
eam: I must say though, they are worth their money.
<eam>
works great provided your scale is within the i/o performance of a single filer
<eam>
which many, many tasks are
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<eam>
yeah, outsourcing that kind of complexity is generally worth the cost
<norc>
Yeah. Even things like disk replacement happens completely automatically.
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<norc>
(And we have them on-site)
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<norc>
I was really amazed by their service.
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<norc>
eam: How do you have replication set up for your databases?
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<apeiros>
eam: ssd stupid fast compared to laptops - even last gen laptops? iirc apple uses ssds which provide >1GB/s of throughput?
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<apeiros>
(I have zero knowledge about server ssds - so honest question :D)
<eam>
apeiros: I'm less familiar with desktop products but I believe so
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<eam>
the thing about consumer grade ssd is they can't take enough writes to serve a production database
<eam>
unless you have a mostly r/o dataset
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<apeiros>
ah, since consumer grade ssd is probably optimized for read as that's what consumers do most?
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<eam>
it's primarily a matter of how the error correction works, and how much unused capacity the device has to remap failing cells
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<eam>
ssd is essentially a game of "how much extra room did we give you to compensate for the periodic and inevitable wear failures"
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<eam>
hard drives do the same thing with remapping failing sectors (the g-list), but not on the same scale
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<eam>
if you get a refurb hard disk don't be surprised if the i/o performance is degraded due to extra seeks from the remapped areas :)
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<eam>
no seeks on an ssd so the degredation doesn't tend to degrade performance -- it's just that you eventually run out of cells
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<eam>
looks like apple ssd claims around 40k iops (vs hundreds for disks) -- and I think the high end fusionios claim 1M
<apeiros>
heh, a slight difference :D
<eam>
that may mostly be due to PCIe though, and maybe apple's using that now
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<eam>
going via a drive bus is the bottleneck (which is fantastic, and nuts)
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<apeiros>
afaik apple does use PCIe by now, yes
<eam>
maybe they have similar performance now
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<apeiros>
they claim "up to 2.0GBps"
<apeiros>
and if they use the right acronym, that's GBytes, not Gbits :)
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<apeiros>
I assume a single (or a combination of) IOP reads/writes a chunk of data, so that can't be directly translated
<norc>
apeiros: I got a question. Do you have to use a HTTP proxy for your macbook at work?
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<apeiros>
norc: sadly, yes
<eam>
ah yeah, they switched to pcie cards in 2015
<norc>
apeiros: And do have multiple network locations, some with HTTP proxy and some without?
<apeiros>
norc: yes
<eam>
apeiros: that's not far off the PCIe bus limits depending on the configuration. Crazy fast
<norc>
And this surely must be annoying with your bash environment variables
<eam>
Apple's Samsung-made PCIe 3.0 flash card in the 2015 MacBook Pro, which comes with 128GB, 256GB and 512GB and 1TB capacities, went from a PCIe 2.0 x2 (or two I/O lanes) in the previous model to a PCIe 3.0 x4 (four I/O lanes).
<norc>
:-)
<apeiros>
norc: I think I've 4 set up regarding proxies
<apeiros>
http_proxy, https_proxy, ftp_proxy and no_proxy
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<apeiros>
(with no_proxy of course not mentioning the protocol, because fuck what)
<norc>
apeiros: I just figured out that bash can simply set up a signal handler for USR1. I also found out that fswatch can watch file changes. I also found out which core modules changes when a network location changes. I also found out how to dynamically probe for the highest priority network services proxy..
<norc>
apeiros: Want me to go on? :-)
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<apeiros>
ah, you mean that way "multiple network locations"
<apeiros>
in the OS
<norc>
Yeah.
<apeiros>
well, in bash I have a script which pings the proxy and turns on/off the env vars :)
<apeiros>
and which I can trigger manually
<norc>
I just got sick of doing this manually.
<norc>
I figured out how to do this dynamically. Completely. :D
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<norc>
For all active interactive and non interactive bash shells
<apeiros>
mine's too, but probably less elegant than yours, so - gladly will take a look at your solution :D
<apeiros>
ah well, yeah, you have to start a new shell for it to take effect
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<apeiros>
(with mine)
<apeiros>
I rarely need it though, since I rarely ever take my work laptop outside work
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<eam>
if you're trying to do complex stuff with proxy configuration -- have you looked into writing a proxy.pac?
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<norc>
eam: Nope what is that?
<apeiros>
eam: that's what we use on the OS level, but that doesn't affect bash, or can it too?
<norc>
eam: My main issue is just the env variables for bash. Especially current interactive shells.
<apeiros>
eam: na, it's good for everything which uses the OS settings
<apeiros>
but sadly Terminal.app isn't one of them :(
<norc>
(well and some files for git and curl)
<norc>
apeiros: *bash
<eam>
ah interesting (I haven't done much with it myself, but I've seen others do complex things)
<apeiros>
norc: Terminal.app would be what has to interact with the OS and "update" the running bash process
<norc>
apeiros: Nope.
<apeiros>
at least I don't see a patch to bash specifically for OSX :D
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<apeiros>
I mean: yes, you could do it. but that'd be ugly, no?
<eam>
I actually have some code floating around to change env vars in existing bash processes ...
<apeiros>
I'm curious to see your solution, though
<norc>
apeiros: I dont use Terminal.app anyway.
<norc>
iTerm all the way.
<norc>
It is by far the best terminal emulator I have seen on any operating system.
<apeiros>
norc: not using it. had issues with swiss german keyboard layout
<apeiros>
and with problems I mean it crapped its pants
<norc>
That sounds weird.
<apeiros>
might be solved by now, it's been a while
<eam>
I had to patch iterm2 to remove a bunch of bad behavior with ansi escape sequences
<eam>
but it's pretty good otherwise
<norc>
apeiros: I shall wrap it up tomorrow at work then. :)
<apeiros>
norc:
<apeiros>
I think some of my coworkers will be even more happy about this than me :D
<apeiros>
(they take their laptops home more often than I)
<norc>
apeiros: My most important application is cntlm though.
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<norc>
(Since we are forced behind an NTLM proxy)
<slash_nick>
I thought you were talking about BMC's Control-M
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<apeiros>
ah, no ntlm for us I believe
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<norc>
All the unixoid things just dont work with NTLM.
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<norc>
Also there is a serious bug with the OSX keychain that messes when you use Safari and Firefox at the same time.
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<norc>
So by using CNTLM you avoid all these headaches.
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<apeiros>
the bug in safari and firefox is only related to ntlm?
<ta0>
will there ever come a day when ruby eliminates tail calls by default? why is that not a thing? recursion seems so natural sometimes
<norc>
apeiros: As far as I know yes.
<norc>
apeiros: And it has interactions with network mounts
<ta0>
also if I create a nested hash with a block that uses &default_proc to nest, the depth to which I can index that hash is dependent on how far the stack will go, right? since it's calling that proc every time?
<norc>
(i.e. if you have smb shares authenticating with the same credentials, things just break all the time and you cannot authenticate)
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<eam>
norc: you use iterm2 yeah? Try running this: echo -e '\033[;i'
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<apeiros>
eam: hacking foreign computers is illegal!!!!!1!!1!elf!
<eam>
;)
<norc>
eam: wtf.
<norc>
Like really. Wtf.
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<eam>
so once I had a server which happened to be spitting that byte sequence to its console (and thus into my terminal) and I couldn't work on it cuz ... yeah
<eam>
iterm2 added some custom sequences too, identified by the number 1337 ...
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<norc>
eam: I looked at it 3 times again, and then looked up and read "iTerm 2 [...] does amazing things".
<norc>
It suddenly became quite comical.
<eam>
it does indeed
<eam>
anyway, some random server somewhere, for some stupid reason, sent that sequence while doing a POST -- which is how I discovered it
<eam>
big WTF day for me that day, let me tell you
<norc>
I can only imagine.
<eam>
but yeah if you want to change someone's iterm theme because they catted your textfile -- that's how to do it
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<adaedra>
it's not an iterm-only feature.
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<eam>
the 1337 codes are
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<drys>
please guys how do i solve this problem. since there is no single video format supported by the web browsers, developing a video streaming site would mean i would encode and upload the same video with three different format..this would consume server space, i have over a 1000 video and each is as large as 1.5gb
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<Radar>
drys: Upload to Vimeo and embed the Vimeo player on your site?
<eam>
1.5T of space isn't a lot
<eam>
obtaining that kind of storage is substantially cheaper than trying to address the browser codec issue
<norc>
CDN.
<norc>
People need to stop worrying about such things themselves. ;-)
<atmosx>
eam: that sequence prints a document with some gibberish on it?!
<eam>
atmosx: yeah it's the ansi sequence to print the contents of the terminal
<drys>
@Rader, Thanks for the reply. these are actually my dvd movies collection, do you think uploading it to vimeo wont send me to jail
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<Radar>
drys: lol
<norc>
drys: You will have to ask a lawyer if you want a good answer for this.
<atmosx>
drys: hahahaha
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<norc>
drys: But anyway, people usually place such things into CDNs (like Amazon CloudFlare for example).
<eam>
1.5G for a movie rip, kids these days and their fancy high bitrate encodings
<norc>
It solves issues with availability, storage and performance.
<norc>
And it just works.
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<norc>
*Amazon CloudFront.
<norc>
>_>
<atmosx>
I love how amazon changes the names for everything
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<drys>
okay then i will make them all available with the common video format ogg, mp4, webm
<_Darin>
Sorry, to those who I was chatting with earlier... my phone quit working and then I got relieved for the night. So, now I can get back to coding.
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<norc>
drys: Remember that container is not codec though.
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<norc>
_Darin: We can do your chastization now if you have time for it.
<_Darin>
I definitely have time. It's only 1230 am
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<_Darin>
haha. The NAVY has my sleep schedule all messed up.
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<drys>
everything work already with just a single format, now that i will be making the video available in 3 format how do i adjust my database table for the 3 format. do i create column on the movie table for each format?