<havenwood>
szqdsegrhrdgdrg: Like Rails, Laravel ship with libraries to handle queues, file storage, and mailers. Rails fairly recently got things like rich text editing, websocket channels, and multi-db support.
<havenwood>
szqdsegrhrdgdrg: A difference with Rails is that it modifies the Ruby language, which is extensible, for all sorts of convenience methods for a web framework.
troulouliou_div2 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
_phaul is now known as phaul
<havenwood>
szqdsegrhrdgdrg: Phoenix is another very nice framework option for Elixir.
<havenwood>
szqdsegrhrdgdrg: If you aren't using rich text editing, mailers, file uploads, etc, etc, you might want something lighter or more composable than either.
<havenwood>
szqdsegrhrdgdrg: If you need everything Rails offers, use Rails.
<apotheon>
havenwood: "A difference with rails is" . . . that I don't have to use PHP?
<apotheon>
. . . but Elixir looks pretty cool.
sergioro has joined #ruby
<apotheon>
I charge twice as much for PHP as for Ruby, because I don't want to use it, and I expect to get compensated for doing things I loathe.
<apotheon>
Your mileage may vary.
fernando has quit [Quit: fernando]
<havenwood>
apotheon: I enjoy Elixir. Phoenix is quite nice. Not quite as much convenience as far as built-in features compared to Rails, but the language is nice, way more on the supervision / modular fault tolerance front, it's definitely Rails-inspired, and LiveView is super neat.
<apotheon>
What's LiveView?
wildtrees has quit [Quit: Leaving]
fernando has joined #ruby
<apotheon>
I haven't really had particular reason to get into Elixir stuff, so my effort has gone elsewhere, but it does seem like it'd be pretty enjoyable if I found myself in a position to need it for some reason.
<havenwood>
apotheon: It's server-side HTML rendering using diffs and dom patching.
<havenwood>
apotheon: It's what I've been *wanting* to do for ages, but done super nicely.
<apotheon>
"Whew. I don't have to build that item on my to-do list, either!"
<apotheon>
I talked to someone about my long-term plans for a project -- the secret, behind-closed-doors part, but mostly because it's not relevant yet rather than because I'm paranoid about others learning about it. He said something about how I shouldn't just tell people about that stuff.
<apotheon>
I told him that if someone else does a good job with it I'll be grateful to not have to do all the work myself, and if someone else does it badly I'll still do it.
<apotheon>
Now we just need to reimplement it in Ruby with Erlang-style concurrency!
<havenwood>
apotheon: Ruby 3 async with websockets should work well. Can still use morphdom. I talked to a Rails dev who implemented something along these lines. Sec, lemme find the repo.
impermanence has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<havenwood>
I gave a talk on H/2 websockets and that ^ lib at OSCON.
<apotheon>
I'm not entirely clear on the connection to Falcon in the README.
<apotheon>
Is Falcon a hard dependency?
<havenwood>
apotheon: Falcon is a Fiber-backed webserver and it can suspend fibers that are out on I/O missions and resume when they return with a result.
<havenwood>
apotheon: So with Falcon, you can have *many, many* open connections without scaling issues.
<apotheon>
I like the code sample accordions there.
<havenwood>
apotheon: Agreed. Nicely done.
fernando has quit [Quit: fernando]
<havenwood>
apotheon: I encouraged the author to abstract a version that isn't entangled with Rails, then make a Rails plugin to entangle.
<havenwood>
I just really like the idea. I'm trying to get my girlfriend to have her Elixir team implement SVG chart generation in Elixir so they can do LiveView charts.
<havenwood>
We should do the same in Ruby. :)
<apotheon>
Yeah, making it separable is a great idea.
<havenwood>
Then WebAssembly for the non-DOM parts.
<apotheon>
Your girlfriend is an Elixir dev . . . ?
<apotheon>
Cool.
<apotheon>
The missus is an Oracle DBA and DB developer.
<apotheon>
. . . so obviously she makes more money than me.
<havenwood>
apotheon: Haha, nice.
<apotheon>
She's sitting a couple feet away on the couch browsing the web with OpenBSD.
<apotheon>
Oh, right, I remember you mentioning this thing to me before.
<havenwood>
Her day work apps are Elixir/Ember but dabbles in Ruby for my sake. :P
<adam12>
lol
<apotheon>
That's nice of her.
drincruz has joined #ruby
<szqdsegrhrdgdrg>
The creator of Ruby, say that he will do anything not to Ruby die
<apotheon>
I've given the missus software I wrote for her birthday more than once, and I think those things may be her all-time favorite birthday gifts. That's pretty cool.
gitter1234 has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<apotheon>
(wrote in Ruby, of course)
<apotheon>
One of those things was a tool for automating setup of her most commonly used workspace layouts with running software in them, for i3.
<havenwood>
szqdsegrhrdgdrg: Matz never said that. :P He did say we must keep swimming to not die.
<havenwood>
Sharks...
<taserface>
well I out-geek you all
<taserface>
I don't have a girlfriend
<taserface>
suck it
<apotheon>
I'm pretty sure there are a couple species of shark that don't need to do that but, in general, yeah . . . they don't get enough oxygen if they aren't in motion.
<havenwood>
apotheon: I think about those species every time Matz gives his keynote about sharks.
<apotheon>
I guess, according to the law, I don't have a girlfriend, either.
<apotheon>
The government says I have a wife.
<havenwood>
I have a domestic partner.
<taserface>
szqdsegrhrdgdrg: ruby is unlikely to die in our lifetime
drincruz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
<apotheon>
I was going to make a joke about the missus not being very domestic, but I realized that we haven't left home more than two or three times in about two weeks (other than to go for walks together), and that's not because of COVID-19; that's normal for us.
<apotheon>
(working from home is a wonderful thing for introverts)
<apotheon>
taserface: I plan on living forever.
<havenwood>
Matz says he'll be the benevolent dictator for Ruby only in his corporeal form, but also plans on living forever.
<havenwood>
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<adam12>
Hah
<apotheon>
Hey, it's another thing I have in common with Matz!
<apotheon>
havenwood: You seem to have good taste in licenses.
<apotheon>
lemme double-check that comment for accuracy
<havenwood>
apotheon: I'm a lawyer. :P
<apotheon>
Srsly?
<havenwood>
Yup. Still keep my license active though I don't practice law anymore.
<havenwood>
Well, in "special status" but not inactive. :P
<apotheon>
Actually, I'm having a hard time finding something you wrote from scratch that has a license on it, now that I think about it.
<apotheon>
found one
<havenwood>
apotheon: What doesn't have a license? Hah.
<apotheon>
ein
<apotheon>
example
alexherbo2 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<havenwood>
apotheon: One-off script example without tests.
<apotheon>
yeah
<apotheon>
not big projects
<apotheon>
Most of what's in your repositories so far seems to be forks, though, upon closer inspection.
<apotheon>
(not a complaint or anything; just a realization that fewer of the license choices were your own than it first seemed)
<havenwood>
apotheon: Anyway, if you look at my gems you'll find MIT unless there's a reason for CC or something else.
<taserface>
oh let's start that discussion
<apotheon>
I'm trying to not really start that discussion, actually.
<apotheon>
thus "I'll take your word for it"
<apotheon>
havenwood: What does "special status" mean, anyway?
<apotheon>
Hilariously, my interest in licensing led me to a point where a patent lawyer I know asked me for information and advice about some software licensing stuff because the copyright lawyers he knew were, in his words, "clueless".
<havenwood>
apotheon: I can't appear in court other than as a prosecutor, public defender, etc. without getting admitted pro hac vice but don't have to do expensive annual continuing education (CLEs) and can go active status whenever I wannt.
<apotheon>
havenwood: Ah, that's cool.
<havenwood>
apotheon: I did actually do a fair amount of copyright law and business drafting as in-house counsel after quitting medical malpractice. I've been inventor on several patents but am not myself a patent lawyer.
<havenwood>
I'm actually not eligible for patent law since I don't have a technical degree.
<havenwood>
for the patent bar*
<apotheon>
I figured that was what you meant.
jingjinghack has joined #ruby
<apotheon>
havenwood: Do you mind if I PM you about something related to copyright law?
<havenwood>
apotheon: I don't mind reading it! I can't promise a response other than that you should seek legal advice. :P
<apotheon>
right
caterfxo has quit [Quit: leaving]
<apotheon>
sent
szqdsegrhrdgdrg has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
impermanence has joined #ruby
bvdw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
bvdw has joined #ruby
tpanarch1st_ has joined #ruby
tpanarch1st has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
Elicro has joined #ruby
william1_ has joined #ruby
william1_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
plutes has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
plutes has joined #ruby
gix has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
Elicro has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<pyrmont>
havenwood: Am also a lawyer! :D
renich has quit [Quit: renich]
alfiemax has joined #ruby
taserface has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
adam12 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
cschneid has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
adam12 has joined #ruby
cschneid has joined #ruby
tpanarch1st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
caterfxo has joined #ruby
<havenwood>
pyrmont: Rubyist Lawyers Guild!
cockadopolous has quit [Quit: leaving]
<pyrmont>
havenwood: It's the best way for us to work concurrently (apologies in advance to everyone).
<al2o3-cr>
it's shorter i wouldn't say it's better
<kitallis>
wow
<al2o3-cr>
oh, if you don't want the *new* to_h stick a to_h at the end instead.
nofxx__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
<al2o3-cr>
instead of Hash[] that is
<kitallis>
yeah
<kitallis>
just going to do that
roadie has joined #ruby
<kitallis>
sometimes I tend to intentionally make code that is concise, when its locality is a part of a chain of transformations in lieu of excessively verbose
<kitallis>
this was one of those cases
nofxx__ has joined #ruby
<kitallis>
clojure's -> macro has ruined me
<al2o3-cr>
kitallis: bear in mind they i showed is approx 2x slower than your way.
akem has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<al2o3-cr>
*bare
<al2o3-cr>
lol bear haha
drincruz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
<leftylink>
now you're reminding me of the full bridge rectifier video
<leftylink>
where he goes on a tangent about the phrase "bare hands"
<al2o3-cr>
i'm a dope sometimes.
<leftylink>
I think it's a good time for me to watch that video again. it's been a while.
<kitallis>
is that electro boom
<al2o3-cr>
%w(male female non-binary).each_with_object({}).to_h is also slower :(
akem has joined #ruby
nullus has joined #ruby
coniptor has joined #ruby
jmcgnh has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
kitallis has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
drincruz has joined #ruby
vondruch has quit [Quit: vondruch]
vondruch has joined #ruby
fluxAeon has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
conta has quit [Quit: conta]
tpanarch1st_ has joined #ruby
Translat-Embedde has joined #ruby
jmcgnh has joined #ruby
bvdw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
bvdw has joined #ruby
fluxAeon has joined #ruby
NODE has quit [Quit: changing servers]
NODE has joined #ruby
wymillerlinux has joined #ruby
mheld has joined #ruby
cschneid_ has joined #ruby
cschneid has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
pupsikov has joined #ruby
banisterfiend has joined #ruby
Bounga has joined #ruby
Bounga has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Bounga has joined #ruby
Rapture has joined #ruby
_whitelogger has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Ven`` has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
william1_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
hiroaki has quit [Remote host closed the connection]