havenwood changed the topic of #ruby to: Rules & more: https://ruby-community.com | Ruby 2.6.5, 2.5.7, 2.7.0-rc2: https://www.ruby-lang.org | Paste 4+ lines of text to https://dpaste.de/ and select Ruby as the language | Rails questions? Ask in #RubyOnRails | Books: https://goo.gl/wpGhoQ | Logs: https://irclog.whitequark.org/ruby | Can't talk? Register/identify with Nickserv first!
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<zenspide`> halp! I'm genuinely stumped for once!
<zenspide`> I'm actually pretty impressed with how much this is confusing to me
<zenspide`> havenwood: ^^
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<uplime> is... is that valid?
<zenspide`> it runs... so...
<zenspide`> baweaver: ^^^
<uplime> TIL you can have instance variables for the class itself
<zenspide`> class instance variables
<zenspide`> remember, (nearly) everything is an object
<uplime> yeah, fair point
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<baweaver> zenspider: huh
<baweaver> Lemme take a look at that in more detail in a bit, that's interesting.
<baweaver> I mean cheating is to use TracePoint to see exactly what in the world context it thinks it's in.
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<zenspider> baweaver: I hesitate to say this but I'm starting to suspect this might be a bug in ruby... at least, certainly a bug in my model of how ruby works.
<zenspider> I'd appreciate any help
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<baweaver> Any specific version?
<zenspider> doesn't seem to matter
<zenspider> I'm cooking so I'll be bipping in and out
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<baweaver> 2.6.5 has it
<baweaver> Hrm, will poke at this more later.
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<zenspider> finally got ahold of tenderlove and we worked it out
<zenspider> I do not like it... but it works...sec
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<zenspider> I need an accessor that'll walk up and find the right civar...
<zenspider> I can't use cvars because the actual code is too chaotic to guarantee who will access and store the cvar first
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<uplime> is there a standard way to deamonize ruby programs?
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<brool> ruby my_program.rb &
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<uplime> kind of hard to manage then :/
<uplime> I'll be managing it with start-stop-daemon, but I need it to fork into the background first
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<al2o3-cr> &ri Process.daemon uplime
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<uplime> oh cool, thanks
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<al2o3-cr> uplime: yw
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<gweisbrod> hey i’m trying to write my first gem - is there a way i can have arbitrary code run as part of the install process? ok if install must be done via `bundler install` instead of `gem install` to get this functionality
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<jerry_jerry> 2.7.0 released
<Mrbuck> nice
<Mrbuck> in python world 2.7 is so famous
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<jerry_jerry> However, as of 2015, there already was Python 3.5
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<jerry_jerry> 2.7.0 released
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havenwood changed the topic of #ruby to: Rules & more: https://ruby-community.com | Ruby 2.7.0, 2.6.5, 2.5.7: https://www.ruby-lang.org | Paste 4+ lines of text to https://dpaste.de/ and select Ruby as the language | Rails questions? Ask in #RubyOnRails | Books: https://goo.gl/wpGhoQ | Logs: https://irclog.whitequark.org/ruby | Can't talk? Register/identify with Nickserv first!
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<havenwood> Ruby 2.7 is a lovely gift to get this year. I'm excited. Merry Christmas!
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<havenwood> And it's available in ruby-install, ruby-build and RVM!
<havenwood> ruby-install --latest ruby-2.7.0 -- --with-jemalloc
<havenwood> rvm get head && rvm install ruby
<havenwood> cd "$(rbenv root)"/plugins/ruby-build && git pull && rbenv install 2.7.0
<havenwood> (Unsure on that last one. :P Seems plausible.)
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<Mrbuck> havenwood: yoou guys doing Ml with ruby ? Not sure if it was you or someone I heard before
<havenwood> Mrbuck: I think we use Python on that front but it's not my area. FWIW, this repo is nicely curated (but not comprehensive) for ML libs in Ruby: https://github.com/arbox/machine-learning-with-ruby
<havenwood> Mrbuck: I think you're thinking of someone else. Unsure! I do like to play with ML in Ruby, but not for my day job.
<Mrbuck> havenwood: Checking that repo. Thank you, ML is my long long term goal couldnt be my day job too
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<miah> happy 2.7 day
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<adam12> miah: happy 2.7 day!
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<havenwood> happy 2.7!
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<adam12> /usr/home/adam/src/ruby-2.7.0/ext/readline/extconf.rb:62: Neither readline nor libedit was found
<adam12> Hmm
<adam12> Maybe that wont' matter now that reline ships in 2.7.
<adam12> Nope. Doesn't matter.
<erikh> maybe a configure flag?
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<jerry_jerry> I've seen benchmarks from 2017 showing NArray vs Python; and now Python vs Julia.
<jerry_jerry> I fear Ruby needs to catch up
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: Show the benchmarks where Ruby is behind?
<jerry_jerry> wait a sec
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<havenwood> jerry_jerry: C-extensions tend to run as fast in one language as another. I feel the barrier between language is thinner than ever, especially with projects like LLVM and GraalVM.
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: If you really do need a Python library from CRuby, pycall.rb is nice: https://github.com/mrkn/pycall.rb
<jerry_jerry> Tentative Benchmark for Ruby/Numo::NArray (2017). Ruby Numo (NUmerical MOdule) (https://github.com/ruby-numo/numo-narray).
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: I don't see any benchmarks. Is that the right link?
<jerry_jerry> Hold on
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<jerry_jerry> Tentative Benchmark for Ruby/Numo::NArray (2017). Ruby Numo (NUmerical MOdule) (https://github.com/ruby-numo/numo-narray/wiki/Tentative-Benchmark).
<jerry_jerry> Newer benchmark on Python shows that Julia is about –3% faster than Numpy, meaning that Julia is on the level of Numpy.
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<havenwood> jerry_jerry: I don't see a big difference. Am I reading this wrong?
<jerry_jerry> The numbers in that 2017 speed test suggest 1.5x, or 36 hours, for what Numpy can do in 24.
<jerry_jerry> I guess you reading it wrong.
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: Yeah, you'll need to use Cuda to get similar numbers in Ruby.
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: https://github.com/sonots/cumo
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: I saw those numbers as similar. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<jerry_jerry> okay, if 24 is similar to 36
<jerry_jerry> you're the professor here,
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: Yeah, it's within an order of magnitude. I'm not surprised the Python version is slightly more optimized. It's widely used.
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: But... use the GPU.
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: Why care about a slight difference when you can get an order of magnitude better performance with the right tool.
<jerry_jerry> yeah, or I just install Julia and it runs out of the box as fast as numpy
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: Or use Ruby with Cuda and run faster than either.
<jerry_jerry> how do I know whether I have NVIDIA GPU Compute Capability 3.5 (Kepler) or later
<jerry_jerry> certainly an option
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: The language isn't really the bottleneck here. If you really want to do this on a CPU, I'd not be surprised if Julia has a better optimized version out of the box.
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: Try Cumo.
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: They list them here: gpus
<jerry_jerry> ah, great
<jerry_jerry> I find it fascinating that the stuff that was developed for first-person shooters is now the backbone of data "science"
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: Parallel computations got important
<jerry_jerry> indeed
<jerry_jerry> okay, don't have a CUDA GPU it seems
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: SIMD is a fallback option :P
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<havenwood> jerry_jerry: That's an example of handwritten code ^ that targets SIMD for efficient operation on a CPU. I don't think it would beat a GPU, but I have no benchmark to prove it.
<jerry_jerry> yeah, obviously
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: Nobody is volunteering to maintain SIMD code here, but it's fast.
<jerry_jerry> everybody is preoccupied with active record migrations ? ;)
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: Ruby has lots of folk working on performance and parallelism. Some great stuff this year and more next. :)
<jerry_jerry> yeah true
<jerry_jerry> fingers crossed
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: If you're interested in performance and Ruby, TruffleRuby, JRuby with Graal, and an honorable mention to CRuby with the new JIT.
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: For this particular task, the GPU just wins—language aside.
<jerry_jerry> heard about them, haven't looked into them, though
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: https://github.com/oracle/truffleruby
<jerry_jerry> I think I have'em on Twitter, too; they're pretty proud
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: With TruffleRuby you can also have language interop with Python running on Graal.
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: "Add fast and low-overhead interoperability with languages like Java, JavaScript, Python and R"
<jerry_jerry> hm, R
<havenwood> I've tried it with R, it's fun!
<jerry_jerry> having R certainly is a plus
<jerry_jerry> there is so much readymade for R
<jerry_jerry> it gets the air of being even "scientific"
<jerry_jerry> haha ... and all we want are better cat pictures
<jerry_jerry> haha
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<havenwood> jerry_jerry: good paper on how Graal also works with C extensions: https://chrisseaton.com/rubytruffle/modularity15/rubyextensions.pdf
<jerry_jerry> what does it actually mean, I run graalvm and inside it I run Ruby?
<jerry_jerry> and inside I also have R etc?
<jerry_jerry> and all is faster than my normal desktop?
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<havenwood> jerry_jerry: The GraalVM has a sea of nodes rather than an AST. It interprets various languages into nodes (even compiled ones like C or Fortran with Sulong via LLVM).
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: The VM doesn't care whether the nodes came from Python or Ruby, so it's efficiently scheduled without a barrier.
<jerry_jerry> how come that you're so familiar with this topic?
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<havenwood> I'm a Rubyist
<jerry_jerry> a ragtag fighter and rebel of programming
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: Good diagrams in this paper: https://chrisseaton.com/truffleruby/cross-language-interop.pdf
<jerry_jerry> hm that means we can just pick the best features of the languages instead of keeping them apart
<jerry_jerry> nice
<havenwood> yeah, I like that. it lets us cooperate across communities without penalty.
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: Neat to see a debugger be able to step between languages too: https://chrisseaton.com/truffleruby/fastflexible/fastflexible.pdf
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<jerry_jerry> havenwood: let's stop here
<jerry_jerry> the amount of info is bigger than I can absorb
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: TruffleRuby is a neat language to contribute to if you like Ruby, since it's primarily written in Ruby-even core libs. Give it a look.
<jerry_jerry> be assured, I'm somewhat of a librarian, so I file the info neatly
<havenwood> jerry_jerry: Okay, good day!
<jerry_jerry> thanks man
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<jerry_jerry> havenwood: have you seen this https://www.scivision.dev/speed-of-matlab-vs-python-numpy-numba/ ?
<jerry_jerry> one of it uses CUDA
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