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<Inside> Ugh
<Inside> Is there a gem or something that can calculate the duration between two datetimes while excluding specific time periods?
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<Inside> ie: if I have 3:15pm -> 8:49am, you would exclude everything between 5pm and 8am and give me a delta of 2.3hrs?
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<Swyper> hi
<Swyper> any good linters for .erb files in ruby?
<Swyper> for vscode
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<Bish> why is the net-ssh design so odd, with eventloops n shit
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<ytti> as opposed to?
<ytti> ssh is multichannel tcp session
<ytti> so you can't do synchronous
<ytti> you can't even do select/epoll, really
<Bish> but why not have threads in background and have a cool DSL to talk with it
<Bish> this feels very c-ish
<ytti> it may be fair to ask, if it's overengineered with the multichannel stuff
<ytti> or even layer violation
<Bish> well, for it being overengineered, it feels cumbersome
<ytti> (i'm talking ssh as protocol, not implementation)
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<Bish> oh, okay, well, i mean ssh (the client) abstracts it pretty well
<Bish> the ruby library, not so much
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<ytti> i've been quite happy with net-ssh API
<ytti> but i may be naive
<Bish> for what are you using it?
<Bish> im trying to extend it right now.... to have a connection to a unix socket on the remote end
<ytti> i implement the same api for telnet+ssh
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<ytti> so consumers (device models) can use either without specific config
<Bish> i don't really get what oxidized does
<Bish> does it save the configuration of eth0 (example) so you can recreated it on .. another machine for example?
<ytti> Bish, it collects specified configurations from network devices and stores the config in git
<ytti> ssh is one input method it can use
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<Bish> so yes?
<Bish> the purpose is that u caqn swapout a machine, and restore the network configuration?
<ytti> i think so, if i understood whhat you asked
<ytti> yes
<Bish> that's cool
<ytti> but usually for appliencies
<Bish> my project is somewhat similiar
<ytti> from various vendors
<ytti> not like linux server
<Bish> but they speak ssh always?
<ytti> no
<ytti> we support multiple input methods, ssh, telnet, http, tftp, ftp
<ytti> most use ssh, but not all
<ytti> unfortunately i dumbly coupled the business logic of get config, store config
<ytti> with the API of interfacing with devices
<ytti> the API for interfacing with devices should have been separate library
<ytti> as it would have had utility in other applications
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<ytti> and i'd probably need 20-50h to cleanly decouple it now
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<Bish> yeah things that are obvious in the end to decouple are the best kind of problems
<Bish> things that should obviously(in retrospect) be decoupled
<Bish> *
<Bish> but what do you mean by overengineered ssh?
<Bish> it looks pretty much like the minimal protocol for that prupose
<Bish> you can't really strip information from that package
<Bish> packet*
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<ytti> i think the channel system may be overengineered
<Bish> yeah i got that, but why?
<ytti> it's like implementing own trasnport protocol inside TCP
<ytti> i'm nnot sure if there is real added value
<Bish> i mean it's simple multiplexing by a integer value, isn't it?
<ytti> then again QUIC does something similar
<Bish> it's the obvious way to do it? isn't it?
<ytti> would love to see ssh over quic
<ytti> but why? why are channels even needed?
<Bish> for the tool im writing right now it's great
<ytti> why not new TCP session?
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<Bish> well, single point of failure, i will be really happy about this, because you can have a connection between 2 services
<Bish> and you simply buffer everything between them
<Bish> if the connections gets lost you simply buffer stuff, until you reengage
<Bish> and these services can multiplex/route the data where it belongs
<Bish> and i guess.. how would you model (std)/in/err/out
<Bish> those are channels in the end
<Bish> and since you have to do multiplex that either way, why not add netio
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<Bish> yeah but udp would be cool for ssh
<Bish> with roaming support
<Bish> mosh with real ssh features.. kinda
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<Bish> ytti: you seem to know ssh quite a bit
<Bish> can you explain to me why there is on_eof and on_close ?
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<Bish> can somebody explain to me what exactly the difference between eof and closed? on a socket is?
<Bish> i understand why this is needed for files
<Bish> but why exactly can a unixsocket send me "eof" while it's not closed
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<havenwood> "It is extremely useful to be able to send an. EOF to the other end while still being able to read the socket. Consider the case of a socket-copying program such as a proxy server, which simply copies all its input to its output in both directions; it needs to be able to transmit a received EOF from one side to the other, but it can't assume that the end to which it transmitted the EOF has finished sending data in the other direction, so it can't
<havenwood> just transmit EOF by closing the socket: it needs to shutdown its output."
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<havenwood> ^ from Fundamental Networking in Java
<havenwood> Bish: has ^
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<havenwood> Bish: "Output shutdown can also be used to semi-synchronize client and server before closing, in circumstances where this is important. Before closing, both ends do an output shutdown and then a blocking. read expecting an EOF. When the EOF is received, that end is assured that the other end has done the output shutdown. Whichever end did the output shutdown first will block in the read for the other ed to do its shutdown."
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<Bish> havenwood: understood, didnt find a source like that
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<Bish> but how would i send a eof
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<Bish> the only way i can imagine is closing the socket
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<Bish> i think what confuses me that IO includes "closed?" into sockets
<Bish> which remains false, even if eof? is true
<Bish> why is that?
<Bish> because eof? true means there is no way the socket can still be used (without connecting again) if thats possible
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<Bish> or am i wrong with anything there?
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<havenwood> &>> require 'socket'; a, b = UNIXSocket.pair; a.close_write; [a.closed?, b.eof?]
<rubydoc> stderr: playpen: application terminated abnormally with signal 31 (Bad system call) (https://carc.in/#/r/84qe)
<havenwood> Bish: #=> [false, true]
<havenwood> Bish: With #close_write, EOF is sent without closing read.
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<al2o3-cr> Bish: man 2 shutdown
<al2o3-cr> give that a read
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<adam12> havenwood: More Rubyconf videos posted.
<havenwood> adam12: Ooh, nice
<havenwood> 48 videos
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<adam12> So double from yesterday.
<adam12> (over double)
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<Bish> havenwood, al2o3-cr: thanks for your help
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<Bish> i went home from work (because slow response)
<millerti> Is it possible to run a Ruby program setuid root? I tried setting the s bit on a ruby program, but I get permission denied when trying to write a particular file owned by root.
<Bish> havenwood: but in my example (talking with the docker daemon via unixsocket)
<Bish> the server sends eof, but closed? remains false
<Bish> why doesn't it close the connection if there is _no way_ to ever receive something?
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<nofxx> millerti, just like any other way to write on *nix, you need to run as root to do that
<al2o3-cr> millerti: setuid bit doesn't work for scripts in linux.
<Bish> ohshit it doesn't?
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<millerti> I know it doesn't work on Bash scripts, but googling, I found that the Ruby interpreter is aware of the s bit.
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<al2o3-cr> millerti: no scripts.
<Bish> yeah but does it matter? i mean the ruby script cannot elevate itself just because its reading a file
<Bish> the ruby interpreter*
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<Bish> al2o3-cr: i read the manpage, yeah u can individiually close read and write
<Bish> but why the heck doesn't it close the connection?
<Bish> and if i have a pair of unixservers, why the heck is the second not closed? while i invoked .close on the first one
<Bish> i am guessing closed? is just for files?
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<captain_none_ame> hi
<havenwood> captain_none_ame: hi!
<captain_none_ame> In a regular fight, who win Perl or Ruby ?
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<captain_none_ame> hi Mr. havenwood
<captain_none_ame> Mr. havenwood , In a regular fight, who win Perl or Ruby ?
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<havenwood> captain_none_ame: Perl 5 or Perl 6?
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<captain_none_ame> Perl 5
<captain_none_ame> Perl 6, is a new language
<captain_none_ame> I am talking about Perl
<captain_none_ame> Mr. havenwood
<havenwood> captain_none_ame: My formal title is havenwood, Esq.
<uplime> havenwood: surely you mean raku!
<havenwood> uplime: I thought it!
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<uplime> hehe
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<captain_none_ame> havenwood, Esq Is ruby dying ?
<havenwood> captain_none_ame: Nope, it doesn't seem like any of the top ten languages are dying. They've gotten fairly well entrenched. There are a few new players but the old ones aren't falling off these days like in the past.
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<captain_none_ame> Ok thanks. Do you knows some things about Rails havenwood , Esq ?
<havenwood> captain_none_ame: If it's in the upper-rightmost box on this graph, it's thriving: https://redmonk.com/sogrady/files/2019/07/lang.rank_.619.png
<havenwood> captain_none_ame: Yes, many Rubyists know of Rails.
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<captain_none_ame> Which is better Laravel, django or Rails ?
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<uplime> if your project is already in python, django is better. if your project is already in ruby, rails is better
<uplime> if your project is already in php, laravel is better
<captain_none_ame> Hi Mr. uplime
<uplime> hello
<havenwood> captain_none_ame: Those are three fairly similar tools. They're all nicely done and well maintained.
<havenwood> captain_none_ame: All MVC pattern architecture too.
<captain_none_ame> Mr. uplime If there is no project yet ? Which is better to start from scratch ?
<uplime> whichever language you're most comfortable with
<havenwood> captain_none_ame: Django is for perfectionists with deadlines and Rails is for making friendly programmers happy. Which appeals to you more?
<uplime> havenwood may be too close to this
<captain_none_ame> both
<havenwood> captain_none_ame: What does the app do?
<captain_none_ame> Is there any solution to replace the ":" in Python with curly braces ?
<havenwood> captain_none_ame: Between Rails, Django and Laravel I'd say to use Phoenix: https://www.phoenixframework.org/
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<captain_none_ame> The problem with phoenix is that I should learn a lot of things to go with it
<uplime> is that the elixir one?
<captain_none_ame> I'm also not confortable with functionnal programming
<havenwood> uplime: Aye. Super nicely done.
<uplime> yeah, it seems pretty nice. the bit i played around with it, it reminded me of rails
<havenwood> captain_none_ame: I've had a Laravel, Django, Rails and Phoenix app in the past. I loved the Rails app best since it was the most polished code and had the most glorious tests.
<captain_none_ame> Also some folks said it is not as stable as the 3 others
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<havenwood> captain_none_ame: Elixir isn't as entrenched, but it's quite stable.
<captain_none_ame> Good , I will try it one day
<havenwood> It is functional, but in an accessible way.
<havenwood> I think it's easier to teach Elixir than Ruby, but I love Ruby.
<captain_none_ame> And you hate Perl
<havenwood> captain_none_ame: Perl 5 or Perl 6?
<captain_none_ame> 5
<havenwood> captain_none_ame: There are a fair number of monks here.
<havenwood> captain_none_ame: I like that Perl 6 is modeled on Ruby as a starting point. It shows: https://gist.github.com/havenwood/3933580
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<havenwood> captain_none_ame: I've not used mojolicious but it's an MVC framework for Perl 5 if you're looking for one: https://www.mojolicious.org/
<havenwood> Or Catalyst.
<havenwood> captain_none_ame: Depending on what you're doing, none of these might be appropriate. What are you making?
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<havenwood> captain_none_ame: In Ruby, I like Roda: http://roda.jeremyevans.net/
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<captain_none_ame> Thanks havenwood, Esq.
<captain_none_ame> havenwood Which hosting provider do you recommand for a Ruby project ?
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<captain_none_ame> Sorry if my English look perlish, I'am not an english native
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<havenwood> captain_none_ame: AWS, GCP or Azure are often good bets. Or a one-click deploy to Heroku.
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<captain_none_ame> Perfect thanks.
<captain_none_ame> Last question before I stop to annoy you
<captain_none_ame> Which is better for creating a good project fast Rails or Django ?
<captain_none_ame> GOOD *
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<havenwood> captain_none_ame: If you say what the project is going to do we'll know how GOOD it needs to be and then can help you pick a framework with the appropriate goodness.
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<captain_none_ame> It's kind of a social network
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<captain_none_ame> focused on movies
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<havenwood> captain_none_ame: has_many :directors, -> { directors }, class_name: 'Crew', as: :crewable
<havenwood> captain_none_ame: Rails.
<havenwood> captain_none_ame: has_and_belongs_to_many :posters, -> { where(group: 'poster') }, class_name: 'Image', inverse_of: :movies
<havenwood> captain_none_ame: Good luck!
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<captain_none_ame> Thank you very much havenwood, Esq !
<captain_none_ame> I will go with it, since I just want to try this framework.
<captain_none_ame> Good night
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<Bish> ewww rails
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<nacsurte> If i want to bail out early on a switch statement, should i use break or next
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<nacsurte> Or is there a way to bail out of a "when" early?
<uplime> I'd use an if personally
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<uplime> when "foo" ... if bar then baz else bingo end
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<havenwood> nacsurte: A case statement doesn't fall through in Ruby. It bails for you
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<michaelsaunders> Is it possible to use gems inside a ruby application without needing rails?
<uplime> sure, gems aren't dependant on rails
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<nacsurte> havenwood: Sorry i mean, if i wanted to exit early from a case
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<michaelsaunders> is there a sample for ruby and gems
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<nofxx> hey, nice this new irb... lint, colors and ident
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<Bish> nofxx: have you heard of pry
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<Bish> michaelsaunders: what do you mean?
<Bish> on how to create a gem?
<nofxx> Bish, it's one of those stuff you just can't unhardwire in the brain, you know? Use it for debugging, but will never remember I can start it
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<nofxx> I'll just open a new tab and type irb...
<Bish> and what is new about irb?
<Bish> 2.7 irb or what?
<Bish> never seen colorized irb, always used pry
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<nofxx> Bish, irb 1.1.0 (2019-11-21)
<SeepingN> wirb
<nofxx> 1.1 ? crazy...
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<SeepingN> so they've baked wirbiness things into 1.1 irb?
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<nofxx> SeepingN, seems like...I'm not requiring wirb or wirble
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