<asheesh>
BTW I realized that in addition to a Sandstorm app triggering "Share", it makes sense [to me] for an app to be able to trigger "New grain [of this app]", at least if you have the app installed etc.
<mnutt>
asheesh: for the web-publishing docs, maybe just reference a non-www subdomain. so set up site.example.com as sandstorm-www.site.example.com.
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<asheesh>
Gotcha
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<mnutt>
kentonv: you probably see davros 0.11.3 and 0.11.4 in the queue. you can ignore 0.11.3, it’s a bad release
<kentonv>
0.11.4 approved!
<mnutt>
0.11.4 contains fixes for web publishing instructions and upload button, which I think were the major bugs found so far.
<mnutt>
thanks!
<asheesh>
such goodness!
<kentonv>
mnutt: minor nitpick, a lot of people probably won't know what "apex domain" means. I'd say not urgent to fix but maybe worth tweaking the language in a future release. Otherwise, the warning is pretty great.
<mnutt>
cool, yeah. is “top-level” more descriptive?
<kentonv>
yeah I think most people would understand that
<asheesh>
second-level in theory
<kentonv>
hmm
<asheesh>
Can't set TXT records on COM
<kentonv>
yeah I guess technically "com" is the top-level
<mnutt>
ahh, true. TLD means something.
<asheesh>
"Works for subdomains, but not your main domain name" or something. I dunno.
<mnutt>
yeah, maybe “not a subdomain” is best
<kentonv>
maybe give an example
<kentonv>
like, you could explicitly suggest "www.<whatever they typed>"
<mnutt>
in fact, that’s what it does :)
<kentonv>
oh yeah
<kentonv>
so it does
<kentonv>
I forgot. :)
<kentonv>
you're one step ahead of me
<mnutt>
two-way bindings are cool
<mnutt>
(mostly)
<asheesh>
nooo don't tell zarvox
<mnutt>
haha, I know, data down, actions up, etc. sometimes a nice two-way binding really hits the spot though.
<kentonv>
hmm is it possible for me to create folders without setting up sync?
<asheesh>
"yes, use a command line webdav tool"
<mnutt>
I had not thought of that until literally 5 minutes ago when I was testing out file uploads
<mnutt>
nor is it possible to delete a directory from the web UI
<mnutt>
it’s on the roadmap
<ckocagil>
so I was writing a little document on sandstorm app porting in markdown. then I realized there wasn't a good sharable markdown editor on sandstorm. now I'm porting one
<ckocagil>
dammit sandstorm, I need my life back
<mnutt>
ckocagil: porting dillinger? or something else?
<ckocagil>
dillinger, yep
<mnutt>
i,i I wonder if it would be possible to write a localstorage shim + a small backend stack so that frontend-only apps could persist
<asheesh>
I would love that.
<kentonv>
ckocagil: Is it real-time collaborative?
<asheesh>
It could live in the "static" vagrant-spk stack.
<jparyani>
mnutt: i wrote something like that already for laverna
<kentonv>
mnutt: that's basically what sandstorm-rawapi-example is
<ckocagil>
kentonv: nope. for real-time markdown I plan to build something with etherpad + its markdown plugin
<kentonv>
ckocagil: etherpad's markdown plugin unfortunately does the opposite of what you might expect: it takes rich-text etherpad content and renders it as markdown markup
<mnutt>
I had an idea for a screensharing app (original user uses webRTC to send screen share to grain over websockets, using sandstorm sharing, “view only” users just see output) but sadly chrome requires an extension for screen sharing.
<mnutt>
also, I have no idea how performant it would be
<kentonv>
hmm I thought google hangouts operated with no plugins on Chrome
<kentonv>
and it does screen sharing
<kentonv>
but I guess maybe the screen sharing part in particular requires a plugin? But I don't remember installing it...
<geofft>
Google Chrome ships the required plugin for Hangouts (or auto-fetches it or something)
<geofft>
but hm, yeah, I think recent webrtc supports this natively
<zarvox>
I wonder what the confinement story for webrtc looks like <_<
<mnutt>
chrome actually allowed you to turn it on with a flag, but then removed that and now requires an extension
<mnutt>
for security reasons, but now you have to carry around this extension that can access your screen at any time, I guess
<kentonv>
zarvox: I think not so bad actually. You need to exchange some tokens through some other means before you can start a WebRTC connection, which actually makes it fairly capability-ish
<mnutt>
webrtc includes p2p access and that would likely go against confinement, right?
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<kentonv>
mnutt: well, it only goes against confinement if it allows the app to communicate with something it couldn't already communicate with.
<mnutt>
ah, yeah
<kentonv>
if a token exchange is needed before setting up the connection then that implies a communication link already exists
<kentonv>
that said I don't know if WebRTC's tokens are unforgeable
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<XgF>
mnutt: Hey, Davros is cool :-)
<mnutt>
XgF: thanks!
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<XgF>
kentonv: before WebRTC is really usable on Sandstorm, Sandstorm will need a TURN server =/
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<XgF>
(also a STUN server, but STUN and TURN are kinda tightly linked)
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<simonv3>
Hey all, I’m a bit confused by the pricing on Sandstorm - I’ve been using the free tier for a while, and just ran out of space after installing Davos and syncing with my local owncloud folder (awesome stuff by the way, this is killer-feature for me)
<simonv3>
So I was looking if I can upgrade my plan
<simonv3>
I’m happy to purchase, but it also says "free during beta"
<simonv3>
Davros rather
<offby1>
heh. That's some catch, that Catch-22.
<dwrensha>
simonv3: the free plan will be free even once we're out of beta. The other plan won't be.
<dwrensha>
other plans*
<XgF>
simonv3: So basically you enter your card details but won't be billed until Sandstorm exits beta
<simonv3>
XgF: dwrensha cool, thanks for clarifying!
<simonv3>
I will wait until I’m not on a public wifi connection to do so :)
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<simonv3>
Are there bandwidth limits to Sandstorm plans?
<simonv3>
(not that I’m thinking of over using it, just curious)
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<simonv3>
Or is that even a question that makes sense?
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<offby1>
Makes sense to me; they're hosting for you, so they need to pay for your bandwidth.
<mnutt>
I thought about that a bit too, when thinking about a webrtc-enabled screensharing app. doesn’t hit any disk quotas, but could use tons of bandwidth
<mnutt>
btw, you’re welcome sandstorm for davros hitting everyone’s disk quotas :)
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<dwrensha>
mnutt: my (admittedly limited) understanding was that webrtc would only use the server for coordinating a direct connection between peers. Is that not the case?
<mnutt>
dwrensha: yeah what I was thinking of would most likely route through the server for reliability/containment reasons, but I may have misunderstood webrtc security
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<XgF>
dwrensha: WebRTC tries to form a direct connection
<XgF>
dwrensha: Because of NATs that fails surprisingly often in which case you end up needing a TURN server to relay
<dwrensha>
XgF: interesting, thanks
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<ckocagil>
I need a guinea p-- I mean is anyone willing to test my ported app?
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<asheesh>
ckocagil: Sure maybe, what's the app?
<asheesh>
Also sandstorm-dev the email list can be good for this too.
<asheesh>
But I do love me some alpha testing.
<ckocagil>
asheesh: dillinger. I can send the apk, or maybe you can allow me on your sandstorm? :-)
<ckocagil>
s/apk/spk/
<asheesh>
My preerence is you send me e.g. a filedrop of the SPK
<asheesh>
I can double-check I'm on the new code by making a new grain
<neynah>
Haha, under the settings gear on dillinger.io "WTF is Dillinger?"
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<ckocagil>
asheesh: yeah I can repro. saving is broken. somehow.
<asheesh>
Fascinating.
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<neynah>
thanks for linking your repos btw ckocagil, makes my life easier
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<neynah>
ckocagil, there's a PR for you! :)
<ckocagil>
that was fast!
<neynah>
:D Feel free to poke me again for more icons. (That goes for everyone else as well)
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<asheesh>
TW ckocagil I don't see it (in the network tab) actually making any requests to do the save, weirdly
<asheesh>
s/TW/BTW/
<ckocagil>
asheesh: I fixed that. somehow.
<asheesh>
Great!
<ckocagil>
I'm thinking if I should do auto refresh every n seconds in read-only mode
<asheesh>
The only reason not to is if it causes a page refresh rather than just a data refresh
<asheesh>
If it causes a full page reload that changes scroll position on the page, then yuck IMHO
<ckocagil>
I can do a data refresh, but I'm not sure about the scroll position
<zarvox>
Thoughts on frontend styles - as we modularize our styles and try to reuse widgets, we wind up specifying dependencies to make the JS side of things happy, and specifying an duplicate, explicit, possibly-inconsistent load order (which needs to respect those dependencies) in the shell.scss's imports.
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<zarvox>
No changes required for now, since it's not that much to keep track of at the moment, but something to be aware of as we try to DRY up frontend things and make reusable frontend components.
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<kentonv>
btw mnutt you should consider posting a Show HN -- "Show HN: Davros: Dropbox-like file sync on Sandstorm". Link to app market page, or link to github and have its readme link to the app market page.
<mnutt>
good idea. I should be linking to the app market page, maybe create a short screencast of getting syncing set up
<mnutt>
sandstorm’s “demo this” functionality is really, really awesome
<kentonv>
:)
<asheesh>
(-:
<zarvox>
Is there a way to invert a value in Blaze templates? I want to pass {{>appDetailsWidget ... showUninstall=!isAppInDevMode }}
<zarvox>
but I appear to need to define another template helper to invert isAppInDevMode, which is itself a helper :/
<dwrensha>
maybe offtopic: has anyone *ever* wanted "backspace" to mean "browse to the previous state in my browsing history"?
<zarvox>
A lot of people see a key with a left arrow on it and infer that it must go back
<asheesh>
Yeah, when I was an IE 4 user I used that all the time.
<zarvox>
Thankfully this behavior is not the default on Linux
<zarvox>
where instead you can use Alt-Left
<kentonv>
zarvox: sure is the default in chrome
<asheesh>
I think I learned Alt-Left Alt-Right from Netscape 4 on Linux, from the menu item listing the keyboard shortcut.
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<zarvox>
Oh, huh. Guess I'm a Firefox user through and through.
<gwillen>
minor nit in the wekan port: it really insists that your sandstorm profile pic has a square aspect ratio
<gwillen>
otherwise it squashes it
<dwrensha>
maybe sandstorm should pad non-square profile images
<gwillen>
that would fix it, yeah
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<zarvox>
Yeah, I guess most of the avatar services guarantee square aspect ratio, and let you pick the desired image size
<kentonv>
dwrensha, gwillen: Sandstorm should do a bunch of image processing on avatars... but if we're going to process user-provided images on the server I want it happening in a sandbox, which makes it a non-trivial project.
<kentonv>
actually what might even be easier would be to do the image processing in the user's browser before upload
<asheesh>
Every Sandstorm ships with an imagemagick app which exports a capability to the shell!!!?
<kentonv>
asheesh: probably more like what we do for zip/unzip right now.
<asheesh>
I'm semi-joking, yeah.
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<gwillen>
kentonv: understood
<gwillen>
kentonv: are you already aware of the EXIF rotation issue, when you get around to doing this?
<kentonv>
gwillen: no, what's that?
<gwillen>
when you take a photo with a phone camera (or some other cameras), the pixels are oriented upright with respect to the image sensor, and an enum in the header describes the orientation of the image sensor with respect to gravity
<kentonv>
right
<gwillen>
desktop image editors generally respect that header and treat it as meaning which way the image is "actually facing"
<gwillen>
browsers don't
<kentonv>
ah
<asheesh>
hopelessness ensues
<gwillen>
because at some point chrome said "wontfix, that's not what that means"
<gwillen>
so ff had to copy it
<gwillen>
and it's set in stone now
<gwillen>
yes, hopelessness indeed ensues
<ckocagil>
wouldn't that have a very low priority anyway?
<gwillen>
(this is extra weird to debug because chrome _does_ respect the EXIF tag when displaying an image in a browser window by itself, but NOT in an img tag)
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<kentonv>
considering rotation of jpeg is lossless, it's sad someone decided adding metadata was a good idea
<gwillen>
presumably they didn't want to have to compute the rotation while saving the image on the camera with its tiny CPU
<gwillen>
(I didn't know it was lossless, that does make it sillier)
<ckocagil>
I really don't think the overhead would be more than a hundred millisec or so
<ckocagil>
if that
<kentonv>
hmm, technically only lossless if the dimensions are multiples of 16 (or 8 in some cases). It seems like most standard dimensions would qualify but maybe that's a consideration.
<gwillen>
that's huge if you're already limited by your ability to stream photos onto flash though
<gwillen>
ahh, *nods*
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<XgF>
dwrensha: I use backspace to go back all the time