purr changed the topic of #elliottcable to: this is CLEARLY a cult.YEP
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> alexgordon nnnnnn
<alexgordon> ?
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<devyn> whitequark: haha
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<glowcoil> purr her
<purr> glowcoil: ... purr *his*
<glowcoil> purr is cool. i like her
<purr> glowcoil: ... like *his*
<glowcoil> haha
<glowcoil> beatcha
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> glowcoil: <3
<ELLIOTTCABLE> devyn, glowcoil, joelteon …
<ELLIOTTCABLE> for better or for worse, I finished that XP farm.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> at least, the functional parts.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> it's GINORMOUS.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> got some aesthetic shit to do.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> and miiiiight just tear down half of it, anyway, 'cause I left a bug in there.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> meh. watevs.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> regardless: goodnight, all.
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<devyn> ELLIOTTCABLE: awesome
<devyn> glowcoil: lol English
<purr> lol
<devyn> possessive and accusative feminine pronouns should totally be the same
<devyn> that makes so much sense
<devyn> /s
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<devyn> let's just do away with nominative and accusative case differentiation
<devyn> it's not like English normally does that for nouns
<devyn> "I like she"
<devyn> "She like I"
<devyn> hell even get rid of "I" and use "me" instead
<devyn> "Me like she"
<devyn> "She like me"
<prophile> hell, do away with first and second person all together
<devyn> that would be unusual
<devyn> and no where is second person used there anyway
* prophile crush devyn wixh shoe
<devyn> japanese often avoids second person though. feels kinda gossipy.
<devyn> sorry thinking of something else but they do that too
<devyn> japanese avoids third person pronouns because they feel gossipy
<devyn> second because it feels rude
<devyn> second less so than third though
<devyn> third person pronouns are super rare
<devyn> except in like, gossip, or music
<devyn> first can be alright if necessary but it's usually dropped too
<devyn> basically, Japanese hates pronouns
<glowcoil> devyn: also they're an open class whereas verbs are a closed class
<glowcoil> right?
<devyn> glowcoil: which are
<devyn> ?
<devyn> pronouns?
<devyn> I'm not sure
<devyn> huh wikipedia says so
<devyn> I'm trying to think of instances in which new pronouns are formed though
<devyn> maybe in slang / yakuza speech?
<devyn> I'm also not entirely sure that verbs are closed, because there are quite a lot of obvious compound words that are ichidan or godan verbs in Japanese
<devyn> er, always godan*
<devyn> don't think a compound could ever be ichidan
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<aki_> ELLIOTTCABLE: I don't know how to read nest or you're measuring in Kelvin?
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> aki_: hm?
<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: lang design with me
<alexgordon> says it has sensitive material
<whitequark> ec has finished his xp farm
<whitequark> I have finished my toolpath generator for paste stencils: http://i.imgur.com/JIIKxcr.png
<whitequark> \o/
<ELLIOTTCABLE> hm?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> alexgordon: lolno
<purr> lolno
<ELLIOTTCABLE> aki_: celsius.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> aki_: and it says, it's ~70 in my house
<ELLIOTTCABLE> whitequark: wat
<whitequark> well
<whitequark> a stencil is a thing to apply solder paste to the pcb through
<whitequark> and my script generates toolpaths for my cnc machine so it would cut stencils out of... well, anything you put in it
<whitequark> and it generates those toolpaths from boards in eagle cad.
<whitequark> am i being clear
<aki_> ELLIOTTCABLE: what's the 270•?
<aki_> 270°
<ELLIOTTCABLE> oh. lol.
<purr> lol
<ELLIOTTCABLE> that's my home's name.
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<whitequark> wheeee, http://i.imgur.com/QagZnYg.jpg
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<alexgordon> glowcoil where art thou
<glowcoil> hi alexgordon
<alexgordon> glowcoil: I'm unable to resist the urge; hacking on furrow again https://github.com/fileability/furrow
<alexgordon> :P
<glowcoil> haha
* alexgordon installs clang 3.4
<joelteon> hey guys, are you good at angular
<Willox> oo
<Willox> alexgordon, one day you should rewrite the generation in furrow
<alexgordon> Willox: LOL
<purr> LOL
<Willox> and then delete the python parts
<alexgordon> nah because
<alexgordon> most languages a designed to be useful for making programming languages
<alexgordon> because naturally, that's what programming language designers need
<Willox> It'll be like the chicken and the egg
<alexgordon> but furrow is terrible at making programming languages
<Willox> 200 years in the future people will wonder what came first
<whitequark> alexgordon: most?
<alexgordon> lol, I take it you haven't seen ghc :P
<whitequark> lol what
<alexgordon> whitequark: ok, all
<Willox> no
<whitequark> implement javascript in javascript
<whitequark> implement ruby in ruby
<glowcoil> alexgordon: make really good generators
<whitequark> etc
<alexgordon> whitequark: it's been done
<alexgordon> glowcoil: ?
<whitequark> alexgordon: "it's been done" doesn't mean *anything*
<glowcoil> alexgordon: generators are now my top priority feature in a language
<alexgordon> glowcoil: oh that kind of generator
<alexgordon> hm
<glowcoil> haha yeah
<alexgordon> define a really good generator
<whitequark> what i'm saying is js, ruby, python, perl and so on, are not a good host for themselves
<glowcoil> like, go chans and shit but, way way better
<glowcoil> like, python has pretty neat ones
<whitequark> even go isn't written in go
<glowcoil> having good comprehensions is a must, in whatever form they take
<alexgordon> whitequark: ok ok
<alexgordon> I didn't know go chans were anything to do with python generators
<alexgordon> I guess I see the connection now
<glowcoil> so they should be performancewise transparent, and facilitate lots of concurrency
<alexgordon> right
<whitequark> alexgordon: glowcoil: I disagree re generators/channels
<whitequark> you can't select over generators
<whitequark> you can't write, say, an irc client/server without select
<glowcoil> whitequark: what definition of generator are you using
<glowcoil> and what select do you mean
<whitequark> glowcoil: ES6 or python one
<whitequark> select means "wait on these N channels and get the item from first that becomes available"
<whitequark> with a separate control path for each channel
<glowcoil> why can't you do that with generators
<glowcoil> i guess i'll believe you that you can't with python/es6 generators
<glowcoil> but that's why i want ones that are actually good at concurrency
<whitequark> well, and I don't know of any other implementation for something called "generators"
<alexgordon> I feel like that's the wrong abstraction
<alexgordon> personally
<whitequark> so I guess what you want is not generators, but just channels :p
<alexgordon> and it's what I don't like about go
<alexgordon> the abstractions in go are just _weird_
<whitequark> alexgordon: elaborate?
<alexgordon> can't, it just doesn't fit my brain
<whitequark> channels specifically, rest of go is boring crap
<whitequark> well
<alexgordon> I like python generators because the make my code neater
<whitequark> sure you can
<alexgordon> instead of doing foo.append(10)
<alexgordon> I do yield 10
<glowcoil> not channels
<whitequark> or that just means you didn't put enough effort into learning channels
<whitequark> :p
<glowcoil> yeah i'm with alexgordon, i want it to be more integrated into the control flow
<alexgordon> yeah maybe, but I dunno, it's not the abstraction I crave
<alexgordon> it seems simultaneously low level and high level
<glowcoil> yeah i don't want a "channel" to be a thing
<glowcoil> i want to be able to print(a.list each)
<alexgordon> I prefer the node/gcd callbacky thing tbh
<alexgordon> lol glowcoil
<purr> lol
<alexgordon> and futures, I like futures
<alexgordon> the C# await/defer thing is too high level for me, but I get where they're coming from
<glowcoil> but yeah, I want:
<glowcoil> easy way to quarantine the reaches of a generator
<glowcoil> but
<glowcoil> everything is one
<glowcoil> and they're highly concurrent
<alexgordon> I like how haskell has a sharp line between parallelism and concurrency
<glowcoil> i guess i'm describing the real heart of paws, and what i was going to make hands bee
<glowcoil> be*
<glowcoil> alexgordon: i don't like how haskell handles either of those, at all
<alexgordon> no me neither
<alexgordon> but I like the line
<alexgordon> :P
<alexgordon> as far as I see, concurrency is best solved by callbacks and futures
<alexgordon> parallelism is best solved by parallel combinators
<alexgordon> e.g. to download a file you should be able to do
<glowcoil> parallelism should be the default
<alexgordon> r = http.get("http://google.com")
<alexgordon> like in python requests
<glowcoil> callbacks are terrible
<alexgordon> glowcoil: mmm no they're good in the situation where you have a fork
<whitequark> parallelism by default requires you to have very strong requirements
<whitequark> such as no shared memory
<alexgordon> glowcoil: i.e. you have code that should run immediately and code that should run after the given operation has finished
<whitequark> between... parallel entities, so practically everything
<whitequark> since it's by default
<glowcoil> alexgordon: so the hands design is:
<glowcoil> alexgordon: every "statement" is run concurrently
<glowcoil> you have to specify any ordering/value dependence explicitly
<glowcoil> whitequark: if all of your state is communicated by flowing along generators/channels then that's not a problem
<alexgordon> glowcoil: hm, I'd need to see it
<alexgordon> I like this:
<whitequark> glowcoil: so, rust model?
<whitequark> you need either an ownership model or all state to be immutable
<alexgordon> glowcoil: I don't see how you could write code like this without callbacks https://gist.github.com/fileability/755e267e19f0881be276
<whitequark> alexgordon: futures?
<glowcoil> alexgordon: well, you have the language do cps for you
<glowcoil> alexgordon: instead of writing it in fucking cps yourself
<alexgordon> glowcoil: pseudocode example plz
<glowcoil> writing one
<alexgordon> whitequark: possible, lemme see
<whitequark> alexgordon: look at ocaml's lwt
<whitequark> it's internally the same thing as nodejs but with none of the syntactic garbage
<alexgordon> glowcoil: but that's bad because I can't tell that the setTextViewContent function happens at the different time to the setUpLineNUmbers() function!
<glowcoil> alexgordon: and that's a job for formatting
<alexgordon> lol
<purr> lol
<glowcoil> it's understood that every list of statements is executed in parallel so that's not unclear
<alexgordon> the code will be really brittle
<glowcoil> on the contrary
<glowcoil> it's idempotent/commutative
<glowcoil> so it's far less brittle
<alexgordon> glowcoil: ok but what when you need stuff to happen sequentially (i.e.... most of the time)
<glowcoil> you can specify ordering yourself
<glowcoil> but it woudln't look like
<glowcoil> a; b;
<glowcoil> it would look like, a -> b, or done: a; b when done; those are awful syntaxes
<glowcoil> but you get what i mean
<alexgordon> I still prefer the callbacks :\
<whitequark> seriously look at lwt
<alexgordon> looking
<whitequark> initialize >> read filename >>= fun content -> write content
<glowcoil> alexgordon: so when a compiler can mechanically transform from an easy-to-undersatnd form of code to CPS for you, you prefer to do it youreslf
<alexgordon> glowcoil: also what are you going to do about the fixed costs of running stuff concurrently?
<alexgordon> whitequark: that's... interesting
<alexgordon> glowcoil: saying everything runs in parallel is all well and good but... starting parallel computations is not free