<wpwrak>
"www" is just the web stuff. we also have "misc" with most of the documents and tools, "scans" with the case scans, etc.
<SAiF>
I was just looking for how the fund raiser was implemented.
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<lobito>
is there a way to reserve a device paying with bitcoin?
<lobito>
or does by any chance anyone know if it is possible to wire transfer money from argentina to germany?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
the latter definitely should be possible, though wpwrak will know _much_ better details. Re bitcoins we're looking into that, might handle those requests manually, for huge orders (> or >=(?) one complete device, full payment)
<lobito>
thanks, doc :)
<lobito>
customs in argentina are very corrupt, but i've got family and friends in italy, i might ship the device there instead
<DocScrutinizer05>
no problem
<DocScrutinizer05>
I know about .ar customs. wpwrak aka Werner lives in BUE
<wpwrak>
lobito: with the end of the "cepo", chances are that you could do a wire transfer now. at your bank, they'll know if they're ready yet :)
<lobito>
wpwrak: you're right. i'll check that out, then
<lobito>
awesome. i live in bue, too ^^
<wpwrak>
hola vecino ! ;-)
<wpwrak>
(it's a small world :)
<lobito>
yeah :D
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: btw, fun: mouser's site doesn't like to answer scripted catalog queries anymore. that is, unless you register, request an "API key" (which you're supposed to keep secret), and they deign to let you have one
<wpwrak>
so, bye bye mouser, welcome future electronics ...
<DocScrutinizer05>
ohmy, the weekly WTF
<lobito>
wpwrak: do you ever go to free software events here?
<wpwrak>
lobito: i used to present at the jornadas regionales, but they seem to have vanished for good (already for some years)
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: what do sites like octopart tell about that now? mouser out of business there?
<lobito>
i see
<lobito>
have you heard of the ciaa (open industrial argentinian computer / computadora industrial abierta argentina)?
<wpwrak>
lobito: hellekin also dragged me to some GNU/FSF-themed event a while ago. don't quite remember what i presented there, but i remember a good struggle with the infrastructure :)
<wpwrak>
lobito: who hasn't ? ;-))
<lobito>
cool ^^
<lobito>
i was lucky to get one for a very low price because i study computer science at the university of buenos aires
<lobito>
but i was thinking...
<lobito>
if the ciaa was made here
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: naw, they let octo in. alas, octo seem to have a rate limit themselves (they want to sell their catalog data .. kinda makes sense in their case), so it doesn't make sense to build a query system on top of them
<lobito>
maybe the neo900 could be made here too someday
<wpwrak>
lobito: there's quite a technology step between ciaa and neo900 :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
sure, not suggesting to build sth on top of octo, just wondered if mouser shot their own foot with octo
<lobito>
maybe the 30th birthday of the gnu project? at the barracas' popular library's hacklab?
<wpwrak>
lobito: yeah, that's the one !
<lobito>
xD i can't believe it
<lobito>
i was there too :P
<wpwrak>
lobito: then you may have seen me. usually somewhere near the beer :)
<lobito>
lol
<lobito>
(17:52:29) wpwrak: lobito: there's quite a technology step between ciaa and neo900 :) <<< oh :(
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: naw, that would be a funny show-down, though. like that news agencies vs. google thing :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
see werner's talk to get some portait
<DocScrutinizer05>
libre-man: I'd really try to avoid moving Neo900 production to a place where you can't import a single N900, let alone hightech stuff in volumes
<wpwrak>
lobito: i think local capabilities go as far as ~4 layer PCBs, dunno about SMT. supposedly they do have SMT lines (well, at least one) in TdF, but i don't know what it can do (or whether one could access it)
<DocScrutinizer05>
lobito: ^^
<DocScrutinizer05>
libre-man: sorry, ETAB
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: i guess we can talk about such a tech transfer around a MOQ of 100 kunits, eh ? :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
dunno about your customs
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: you noticed the recent short excursion about security aspects of boot, on tmo?
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: they're supposedly getting a bit friendlier. so far, only for major industry, though, and for books. (they had sort of blocked commercial book imports, too. certainly one of the finer moments of "protecting the local industry")
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: i saw that there is some discussion, yes
* DocScrutinizer05
sighs at silego asking for email-addr once again
<lobito>
DocScrutinizer05: you're right :P i was thinking about locally producing just the NeoN board (in the hypotetical case there were enough argentinian customers)
<lobito>
dreaming's for free :P
<DocScrutinizer05>
lobito: we need to get lots of chips and modules for the NeoN boards production too
<lobito>
right
<DocScrutinizer05>
I think for a 'outsourcing the production' destination country, Argentina has as low a reputation and attractivity as it gets, right now
<wpwrak>
lobito: there are very very few things where it makes sense economically to produce specificially for the local market. and if you're thinking of mercosur, you're probably better off producing in brazil.
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually I'd rather consider China or HK or taiwan than argentina
<lobito>
i see
<wpwrak>
lobito: in argentina you have: lousy logistics, excessive labour costs (of which very little ends up in the pockets of workers), very difficult if not hostile customs, weakly developed supporting industry, and so on. so that are disadvantages before you even consider the basic cost of setting up a new production site, the size of the corresponding market, and any market access benefit producing locally may give you.
<lobito>
you're right xD it wouldn't make any sense right now
<wpwrak>
lobito: all that "import substitution" stuff is largely a bunch of lies
<lobito>
what we could do locally right now would be maybe 3d-printing the mechanical parts, translating nokia care center's repair manuals for the n900, getting more people to know about the project...
<lobito>
but producing boards seems very far off, from what you're saying :/
<lobito>
*the boards
<wpwrak>
lobito: heh, i'm actually curious what it would take to 3d-print the spacer frame :) i made it with a cnc mill. i think it should be quite a bit of a challenge for most 3d printers :)
<lobito>
wpwrak: would you be interested in giving a talk or making a stand (alone or together) at, say, some free software event or computer science event at my uni?
<wpwrak>
lobito: sure, why not. i still have a bunch of stuff from cccamp2015 that's (unfortunately) still quite up to date :)
<lobito>
most computer people i talk about neo900 or even n900 about, don't know about it but like it right away
<lobito>
yeah :D i saw your talk recently
<lobito>
didn't know you lived here xD
<lobito>
there's a mid-year event at my uni where people from other places (often from around the world) come talk about stuff that's not currently included in our study program
<lobito>
there's flisol, also (latin american festival of free software installing / festival latinoamericano de instalación de software libre)
<wpwrak>
install fests sound a bit more hands-on, no ?
<lobito>
yeah, but there are talks and stands too
<lobito>
i was in at a stand with the local pirate party in last years'
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually I think maemo is prolly the most unknown and riddled by disinformation OS in the unix world
<DocScrutinizer05>
most people think maemo is 100% proprietary
<DocScrutinizer05>
almost nobody knows maemo core is 100% FOSS
<lobito>
i've got a friend that worked with maemo in a one-laptop-per-child project
<lobito>
he didn't know about n900, tho
<lobito>
(nor neo900, obviously)
<DocScrutinizer05>
(100% FOSS) well, except the PowerVR driver
<lobito>
"You don't have permission to access /Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Top_Level_Architecture on this server." maemo.org blocks tor exit nodes :P
<jonsger>
for me the maemo project seems dead
<DocScrutinizer05>
lobito: a pity. please do as suggested, /join #maemo and pester chem|st there
<DocScrutinizer05>
or xes or warfare
<lobito>
thanks, DocScrutinizer05 :) will do
<DocScrutinizer05>
I criticized this nonsensical blocking of read access just 2 days ago
<wpwrak>
why would they do that ? malice ? got a strongly worded suggestion from friends at 5eyes ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
they don't have a clue how to block only access-write pages
<wpwrak>
;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
I suggested to let the firewall do the filtering and add a PHP 10-liner just to the login page, which would report each IP to the FW, then FW can look it up in RBL and decide whether to add it to the list of blocked IPs for a few hours
<DocScrutinizer05>
indiscriminately blocking *all* IPs that are on some stopforumspam or whatever RBL is pretty nonsensical
<bencoh>
hm, I know there are other ways, but log parsing can be tricky, and fail2ban isn't really maintained (nor "secure")
<DocScrutinizer05>
"but look we got no spam anymore!1!!1!" yeah sure, but you also lost a significant fraction of innocent users
<bencoh>
(as in, a real bug nest)
<bencoh>
(and it runs as root)
<DocScrutinizer05>
who needs fail2ban for that?
<bencoh>
the one who tried and failed without it, I guess :p
<bencoh>
ones*
<DocScrutinizer05>
huh?
<DocScrutinizer05>
how's adding a 10-liner PHP to http://talk.maemo.org/login related to fail2ban? and the identical approach (even with the same instance of daemon in firewall) can get used for wiki.m.o and bugs.m.o as well
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<Sicelo>
maybe asking something silly: did paypal issue get resolved yet?
<DocScrutinizer05>
no news
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-/
<enyc>
What is the project doing in meantime nonetheless?
<DocScrutinizer05>
Werner preparing a (set of) whitepaper about possible ways ahead for financing, with focus on kickstarter et al sort of crowdfunding, which I really hope we can get out today or tomorrow. Nikolaus again is busy until February at least. I'm struggling with the PayPal issue and coordinating quite a number of other issues during the burst of holidays, while still trying to figure how to finally recover from the burnout in November
<DocScrutinizer05>
buzzword taxes
<DocScrutinizer05>
there's not only "the project", there's a whole company to run
<DocScrutinizer05>
and end of years those companies tend to demand a lot of attention to all sort of paperworks
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<wpwrak>
Arch-TK: do not give him ideas ...
* Oksana
nods
<wpwrak>
amatus: that's almost scary :)
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<pigeons>
there are lots of bitcoin solutions where you get the euros right away without the exchange rate risk, but it would mean another burden on your users and donators to get the bitcoin when they have dollars or euros they want to give you
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<DocScrutinizer05>
pigeons: we won't drop the other payment methods when we possibly eventually manage to get BTC processor
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'm no fan of BTC but a few customers asked for it already
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<DocScrutinizer05>
I'd really hope for an easy and transparent way to handle that bitcoin stuff. I never touched it so I have no clue and you may consider me a complete noob. Actually that's not correct, I once tried to register for such processor and it ate one full day of nasty fineprint reading and trying to get documents they asked for, just to learn that without a US bank account I'm not eligible to use that brilliant service
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<pigeons>
well feel free to run anything by me and i'll look for an idea to run by you
<pigeons>
the more easy you get, the more you have to worry about the company making things easy for you not screwing up or screwing you over
<DocScrutinizer05>
the seemingly most common approach those BTC services is >>please accept the ToS to read in your account under "fineprint/ToS" about what you just accepted<<
<pigeons>
but yeah there are a few where you set your eur prices and they adjust the amount of bitcoin they ask from the customer and give you eur right to your bank
<DocScrutinizer05>
exactly what we'd need
<DocScrutinizer05>
also: *German* bank account, no 'please upload your driver license and US ID card', no weird ToS where they think they can keep the funds as long as they like, like PP does
<DocScrutinizer05>
no mandatory "app" only running on Windoze
<DocScrutinizer05>
no mandatory facebook or twitter or whatever account. No HTML-only emails
<DocScrutinizer05>
no website that has "your browser doesn't work here. Please use $crapbroser-1337!"
<pigeons>
i'll look into it
<wpwrak>
for the browser, you should settle for firefox and chromium as acceptable choices. with konqueror, i'm afraid you won't have much luck (or at least have to spend a lot of time finding a service that seems to work, then spend more time to find the details that don't, and spend even more when they change something next month that breaks konqueror)