<bsdfox>
no idea. someone just posted on the freebsd-embedded mailing list
<glowplug>
That is a cool competitor to the Cubieboard!
<glowplug>
I would say that it depends on what you need. The ODROID-U2 has a ton more horsepower and 2gb of RAM. But it's $89.
<glowplug>
That mars board and the Cubieboard are probably the best value at $49 for development purposes. HDMI sticks based on RK3066 are also extremely good value (such as the MK808).
<bsdfox>
if only we could get one with good linux video accel
<destinal>
bsdfox: isn't lima pretty far along currently?
<bsdfox>
do the rockchip processors use mali400 too?
<glowplug>
The RK3066 does. Lima was running Quake III last I checked. But general usefulness is probably awhile off still.
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<glowplug>
Lima seems to be working pretty well in Ubuntu at the moment. The issue seems to be with the VPU that handles video decoding (the mali does not). It still has zero support.
<glowplug>
Pretty exciting stuff. Not only because it will be extremely cheap but because Freescale is pretty open. Linux drivers for the VPU are possible also.
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<tesingh>
yes, but will it hit the target price of $15?
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<glowplug>
My guess is $30 for the i.mx6 on release not including shipping. The $15 point will take a lot of popularity of the EOMA68 standard (imo).
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<glowplug>
Thats still pretty optimistic. There are other i.mx6 SoM's that sell for around $70.
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<pucko>
hmm.. I get frequent segmentation faults with my mele (A10). anyone else experienced something similar?
<pucko>
ps aux
<pucko>
wrong window :P
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<couch>
hey, someone here who can help me with the sunxi-media-create script??
<couch>
I always get the following error when trying to run it under Ubuntu
<couch>
=== === Copy rootfs partition files to SD Card === === Linaro rootfs cp: cannot stat `/tmp/.sunxi-media-create.14897/rootfs/binary/boot/filesystem.dir/*': No such file or directory Failed to copy rootfs partition data to SD Card
<couch>
join #linux-sunxi
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<hno>
lkcl, just found the Allwinner GPL discussion on gpl-violations legal list. They are quite clean on the A10, no worries there. But A13 SDK releases are a mess with binary blobs. Thankfully the code needed was leaked by accident (Allwinner git mistake and customer mistake)
<xenoxaos>
including cedarx???
<xenoxaos>
:P
<hno>
the A13 code we do have is good for use on Olimex A13 board and similar devices. But not fit for tablet usage.
<hno>
can't speak of CedarX user space libraries. Some say there may be GPL violations in there, I don't know (have not looked).
<xenoxaos>
i was more asking if the code for that got leaked by accident as well
<hno>
no
<xenoxaos>
oh well
<hno>
only the cpu core support
<xenoxaos>
a man can dream
<traeak>
first company to "get a clue" regarding cooperation with the community and not have ancient expensive hardware wins big
<traeak>
grrr eh?
<hno>
What I am saying is primarily that the Allwiner A10 kernel and u-boot sources are quite fine in GPL terms.
<hno>
and have very little to complain in GPL terms about the A10 SDK in general. In fact far better than most other out-of-tree vendor source drops I have seen.
<mripard>
traeak: theres' one: Atmel
<mripard>
not sure this is the kind of SoC you're looking for though :)
<hno>
A13 SDK is on the other hand more on the "normal quality of non-compliance and ignorance". seen from most vendors who do not try to push things mainline.
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<focus_it>
what is the situation with A20 and A31. Is Allwinner supplying datasheets or are they holding back on datasheets and full blown Linux like Ubuntu appearing on A20/A31? Is it time to go with Luke? Luke switched to Freescale iMX6Q because its got 6000 page manual! I getting bored with projects becoming stuck because of CN chip makers and their antics.
<mnemoc>
no datasheets yet, but we got full sources
<focus_it>
hi memoc :) 'full sources' mean register definitions or the Linux for running Dalvik and android?
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<mnemoc>
by sources I mean .c code
<mnemoc>
linux and u-boot
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<focus_it>
right - so the kernal and uboot can be built - but what about things like sound and video?
<focus_it>
and power management and sata
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<focus_it>
reason I ask is I getting som2 board built and its expensive! its got some 1200 holes!! I'll do one more for the iMX6 or A20/A31, but I can't decide which way to leap
<mnemoc>
focus_it: I don't intend to convince anyone to use allwinner socs instead of fsl. I only mean that the situation is not as apocalyptic as it's painted
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<focus_it>
sorry mnemoc I did not mean it that way - I'm scouting to make decision
<mnemoc>
also the sunxi related developement moved away of this channel to stop giving the wrong impression of it been allwinner-centric
<focus_it>
(so where is sunxi traffic now?)
<mnemoc>
#linux-sunxi
<focus_it>
thanks - just adding it...
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<focus_it>
so is there mileage is making A20 or a A31 som board? my boss interested in progressing with something as the fall back so that there is more than one SoM board available in case one fell by the way side.
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<mnemoc>
the A20 is supposed to be pin compatible with the A10, and it's said to go mass produced on april
<mnemoc>
for the A31 you can ask allwinner for reference designs
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<focus_it>
mnemoc: good to know about A20. I can sell that to boss. I asked Allwinner earlier today for diagrams. I was frank and said I needed to know whether they will release it for open sourcers and fully support a Linux such as Ubuntu.
<mnemoc>
cedarx (obviously) remains closed source, but the code of all the kernel-side drivers is avaialble currently (and waiting for hardware to test to start integrating it)
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<focus_it>
so if someone managed to make the Mali400 and SGX544 properly in the kernel, the matter does not need to go through Allwinner?
<mnemoc>
GPU kernel drivers have always been availalbe
<mnemoc>
they just expose the hardware via mmap() and ioctrl()s
<mnemoc>
all the real knowledge is in the closed user space libraries, as with all ARM-related GPUs
<focus_it>
[my answer to closed source ARM GPUs was going to be adding 2 or 3 extra CPUs and accelerating video
<focus_it>
- but it needs a bit of time to write the software! :( ]
<focus_it>
At $18 per quad core, adding 2 or 3 will boost the video acceleration beyond that of GPUs most probably because each CPU will have its own separate RAM to do the rendering
<focus_it>
Very easy to copy and paste to add more CPUs once the boards get inside KiCAD
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<focus_it>
Ubuntu is engaging tablet makers to put Ubuntu on to tablets - I just wonder if Allwinner will put it on to the A31. An informal minimum requirement is quad core and I think 2GB RAM before it runs proper
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<focus_it>
If allwinner does Ubuntu, it will be the greatest news in ARM tech for a few days :)
<Gumboot>
What does allwinner have to do to "do Ubuntu"?
<Gumboot>
UEFI bootloader, I guess, but is there anything else?
<jelly-home>
ubuntu is far from a polished and bugless experience; it took them 18 or more months just to make their GUI usable
<mnemoc>
ubuntu for phones/tablets runs on top of the usual closed android
<mnemoc>
it's not a real "linux distribution"
<Gumboot>
When did they make the GUI usable? I've been uninstalling it (over and over again, even on the same system) ever since I first used Ubuntu.
<jelly-home>
and now they're throwing that GUI away and forking/reimplementing surfaceflinger?
<Gumboot>
If it suddenly turned usable I missed it completely.
<jelly-home>
Gumboot: it's much less buggy than when it got out
<focus_it>
I got ubuntu on nexus 7 - it works nearly like the desktop version - and that be all I want
<Gumboot>
Oh. So they didn't fix the design, then?
<Gumboot>
focus_it: Is something missing from your Ubuntu-on-cubieboard experience right now?
<focus_it>
If Allwinner 'does ubuntu' I guess it means they get out their magic wand and bless their developer community with datasheets to make all the drivers work 100% - sata, usb, ethernet, wifi, spi, sdcard, lcd, hdmi camera etc
<Gumboot>
Oh, right, no. I strongly doubt there'll be any blessings going on.
<focus_it>
Gumboot: I bought 2 cubies, one is not working, so I not have time to investigate
<glowplug>
I believe the Ubuntu for Nexus 7 is basically Android + android binary blobs. Like Ubuntu Touch.
<RaYmAn>
the 'proper' ubuntu for nexus 7 uses tegra x11 drivers.
<RaYmAn>
(in the current release)
<glowplug>
So it's not an "ubuntu touch" release? It runs X11 + standard kernel?
<focus_it>
Gumboot: I make A10 developer board now http://www.gplsquared.com/SoM2/SoM2.html, then I make RAM and NAND board, then I join it up and make a cubie like board, then I make a complete cubie like board - all open sourced in KiCAD :)
<RaYmAn>
"standard kernel"? :P android is just some extensions to the kernel that can be disabled.
<Gumboot>
"ignored" would be more accurate, I think.
<RaYmAn>
that one is regular ubuntu, not "ubuntu touch"
<RaYmAn>
with tegra x11 driver rather than android drivers
<focus_it>
Gumboot: cubieboard experience has been OK so far with the one that is working - but not 'fully' experienced yet because of lack of time
<Gumboot>
I'm concerned about your one non-working board.
<Gumboot>
What kind of symptoms?
<focus_it>
Solder flash found on the board before I got it and booted it - I think HDMI took a hit and possibly other bits of hardware
<Gumboot>
It's important to report these things so that QA gets woken up at the assembly plant.
<focus_it>
Gumboot: yes, but being honest I had no time for anything now or a few weeks :(
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<Gumboot>
Oh, I wasn't in the channel I thought I was.
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<torqu3e>
what about the exynos's focus_it ?
<focus_it>
torque3e: I purchased an odroid-x, it be working. But beyond that I haven't investigated
<torqu3e>
but samsung does not want to talk to small scale people
<torqu3e>
I wonder how odroid gets their chips
<focus_it>
I tried to find info on the chip - but its hard work.
<torqu3e>
they probably have a korea factory hookup
<focus_it>
Its samsung that looses order if they don't want to share.
<torqu3e>
am waiting for my u2 to arrive and should start playing with the a13 if work stops being a shitstorm
<focus_it>
But then again its a mega conglomorate - each business unit knows what it wants and the chip maker makes it to order - no messing about with real customers!
<glowplug>
What do you guys think the price will be on the i.mx6 eoma-68 cards?
<torqu3e>
how much is each chip?
<torqu3e>
bom for the rest is about the same, the a10 I think is $5 a pop @100k so the card works to 15
<focus_it>
iMX6 quad core recently was $18, dual was $14, single was $8 in volume quantities
<torqu3e>
that is fk expensive, a10 is 5 or 8 don't remember
<focus_it>
bom + 25% is your minimum cost for producing something. bom + 30% is best bet to avoid writing cheques out to customers.
<torqu3e>
yes
<focus_it>
a10 is $10 in medium, but 100,000+ is around $7 I believe
<torqu3e>
$7 for a10 @100k
<torqu3e>
they are targeting $15 for the card, all smd from the factory is going to be tight, even at 20 it is not a bad proposition
<focus_it>
At $18 I won't hesitate to have be a quad core
<focus_it>
if eoma succeeds, he can get his own chip made
<traeak>
probably just heat and power
<traeak>
lckl was looking at that 8 core mips thingy or whatever that was
<traeak>
ugh
<focus_it>
he can get dice at about $2, RAM dice about $1, bond it on to a PCB with BGA pads underneath, put a cap on the BGA and his entire device costs $5 or less
<torqu3e>
someone needs to design an open source processor that gets programmed onto an fpga which runs pure linux, throw a gpu there too
<focus_it>
torque3e: it exists - I bought one from ..
<mnemoc>
btw, the A31 has an openrisc as 5th core :) called ar100
<focus_it>
Be sure to buy the board and programmer if buying!
<roxfan>
there are also some open SPARC cores but i'm not sure how good are they
<torqu3e>
149e is not mass produce friendly
<torqu3e>
mnemoc: are they doing the little.BIG thing too?
<focus_it>
torqu3e: fpga inefficient - a lot of unused redundant hardware - it will never be cheap solution
<torqu3e>
yeah, one can wish :)
<roxfan>
fpga is good for one-off or small-scale, heavily custom things
<mnemoc>
torqu3e: sort of. the 4xA7 is the "big", and the ar1000 takes care of the slow stuff and standby
<focus_it>
if luke makes 100k, he can easily persuade a design house or chip maker to make him his own BGA and lower cost than Allwinner
<mnemoc>
ar100*
<focus_it>
luke's bga can have dice for CPU + RAM because it will always be needed for Linux
<torqu3e>
that makes sense
<focus_it>
the BGAs allwinner make are used in many different ways and thus not economical for them to produce bga with RAM
<focus_it>
and luke can also get the full chip documentation, and then Linux can really begin to take off on the arms :)
<torqu3e>
when are we getting to see an a10 eoma board?
<focus_it>
luke switched to iMX6Q because it were 6000 pages in documentation compared to 2000 pages of stingy documentation from Allwinner
<focus_it>
must go bye for now
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<mnemoc>
torqu3e: updates about both eoma68 modules are on the /topic
<mnemoc>
2000 pages of allwinner documentation? on what planet? :p
<mnemoc>
their datasheet is 80p, and the detailed user manual is ~400 :p
<torqu3e>
so its a given that they are going iMX6Q, I did see the designs
<mnemoc>
lkcl is making both
<mnemoc>
a10 and imx6q
<torqu3e>
I want a rack full of those :D
<mnemoc>
:)
<mnemoc>
go ahead and start designing the multi-eoma68 board
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<mnemoc>
[XX]||[XX] eoma68 card pointing out, header taking power, usb, sata and ethernet, and then a 2.5" drive connected to each ... pretty easy :)
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<calris>
Anyone no how to create an admin user or set the root password on an ARM Fedora 18 device (I forgot to add myself when I created the first user)
<calris>
It's a Mele A2000 (AllWinner A10) - I have a serial port, so I should be able to get a U-Boot prompt
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<torqu3e>
passwd
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<calris>
I can't get into a root shell - That's the big hurdle
<calris>
I might be able to init=/bin/sh from U-Boot though - about to give it a try