<phantomcircuit>
dgenr8, sure but in a typical settlement transaction the net amounts are not meaningful to the individuals whose transactions are being netted
<dgenr8>
er, that's my point. the average observer/validator will lack any context or way to connect what's observed in the blockchain to anything they know about (like their own txes)
c-cex-yuriy has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<dgenr8>
could there be a way to scale, and retain that property? are there ways to impose other tradeoffs preferentially on different parties, and yet still retain all the important properties of bitcoin? can bitcoin become something that is infinitely scalable?
<Luke-Jr>
dgenr8: the validator is not SUPPOSED to know anything about the transaction, other than the change of UTXOs
<Luke-Jr>
which continues to work fine with Lightning at least
d1ggy_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
d1ggy has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
rusty has joined #bitcoin-wizards
lmacken has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
Quanttek has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
fanquake1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
fanquake has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
Mably has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
zmachine has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
frankenm_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
frankenmint has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
gandalf_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<gandalf_>
any thoughts on ethereum?
<sipa>
kanzure: economic activity that relies on validation by a full node?
<kanzure>
go on...
<sipa>
like not shipping goods until incoming payments are validated by it?
<kanzure>
if 10% of all economic activity is going through one node, is that still sufficient.. or what..
<sipa>
right, it's about independent entities basing their economic activity on validation by a self-run full node
lmacken has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<sipa>
or more generally, i guess the degree to which their economic activity is based on trusting data from others
belcher has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<kanzure>
is it something like "the degree to which their economic activity can survive reorgs and hard forks"?
<sipa>
it's rather... would be affected by hard fork
Relos has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
<dgenr8>
here's a straw man. new permanent publication mechanism which is like the blockchain EXCEPT makes no effort to validate transactions or prevent double-spends. It also supports the definition of tree structures.
<dgenr8>
blockchain now just needs the merkle root.
<sipa>
dgenr8: you just reinvented tree chains :)
<dgenr8>
oh crap. i thought that was N blockchains, all validating and preventing double spends.
gandalf_ has quit [Quit: Page closed]
Relos has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<dgenr8>
reviewed treechains. it talks about spending on this or that chain, which is different... I was thinking keep one chain, and go to small (constant-size) blocks that just reference a merkle tree stored elsewhere. all the challenges are in how to create the 'elsewhere' :/
fanquake1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
fanquake has joined #bitcoin-wizards
nuke1989 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<dgenr8>
a full node would maintain some configurable portion of a global hierarchical structure of all the txes and tx tree definitions, and would need to do some level of validation to prevent spam.
frankenm_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Dr-G2 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
Dr-G2 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<dgenr8>
oh, it's a DHT I guess... this doesn't work?
priidu has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
p15x_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
p15_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
p15x has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
p15 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
lmacken has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
CodeShark has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
metamarc has joined #bitcoin-wizards
metamarc has joined #bitcoin-wizards
lmacken has joined #bitcoin-wizards
frankenmint has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<jgarzik>
I lol'd when someone on reddit suggested replacing bitcoin with a sharded DHT
<jgarzik>
going from most sybil resistant to least in 4.5 seconds
wallet421 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
wallet421 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
wallet42 has quit [Killed (kornbluth.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))]
<Luke-Jr>
jgarzik: I lol'd at the guy saying we should stop arguign about block size and just change the price instead.
<jgarzik>
heh
skeebop has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
skeebop has joined #bitcoin-wizards
frankenmint has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
p15_ has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
p15 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
p15 has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
EasyAt_ is now known as EasyAt
EasyAt has quit [Changing host]
EasyAt has joined #bitcoin-wizards
TheSeven has quit [Disconnected by services]
[7] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
p15 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
p15 has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
p15x has joined #bitcoin-wizards
p15x_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
p15 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
skeebop has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
p15x has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
p15x has joined #bitcoin-wizards
skeebop has joined #bitcoin-wizards
skeebop has quit [Client Quit]
s3gfault has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
GGuyZ has quit [Quit: GGuyZ]
p15 has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
p15 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
GGuyZ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
p15 has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
p15 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Burrito has quit [Quit: Leaving]
GGuyZ has quit [Quit: GGuyZ]
GGuyZ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
p15x_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
p15x has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
wallet421 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
wallet421 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
wallet42 is now known as Guest70405
Guest70405 has quit [Killed (orwell.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))]
kompreni has joined #bitcoin-wizards
arubi has quit [Quit: Leaving]
oleganza has joined #bitcoin-wizards
NkWsy has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
priidu has joined #bitcoin-wizards
ThomasV has joined #bitcoin-wizards
HostFat has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jeremyrubin has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
frankenmint has joined #bitcoin-wizards
p15x has joined #bitcoin-wizards
p15_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
p15x_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
p15 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
frankenm_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
frankenmint has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
ThomasV has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
b_lumenkraft has joined #bitcoin-wizards
hashtag has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
Mably has joined #bitcoin-wizards
hashtag has joined #bitcoin-wizards
hktud0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
hktud0 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<runeks>
i support changing the bitcoin price
<runeks>
but i can't find the relevant lines in the source code...
<sipa>
lol
<runeks>
hehe :)
NkWsy has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rusty has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
NkWsy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
hashtagg_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
hashtag has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
rusty has joined #bitcoin-wizards
frankenm_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
frankenmint has joined #bitcoin-wizards
wallet42 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
wallet421 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
wallet421 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
wallet421 is now known as wallet42
hashtagg_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
gill3s has joined #bitcoin-wizards
wallet42 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
wallet42 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rusty has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
arubi has joined #bitcoin-wizards
c0rw|away is now known as c0rw1n
oleganza has quit [Quit: oleganza]
oleganza has joined #bitcoin-wizards
kompreni has quit [Quit: kompreni]
tromp_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
andy-logbot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
andy-logbot has joined #bitcoin-wizards
* andy-logbot
is logging
rusty has joined #bitcoin-wizards
trippysalmon has joined #bitcoin-wizards
gill3s has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
rusty has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
sparetire_ has quit [Quit: sparetire_]
dEBRUYNE_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
oleganza has quit [Quit: oleganza]
hashtag has joined #bitcoin-wizards
gill3s has joined #bitcoin-wizards
GGuyZ has quit [Quit: GGuyZ]
frankenmint has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Quanttek has joined #bitcoin-wizards
gill3s has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
<fluffypony>
runeks: lines 507 - 513
<fluffypony>
just make sure not to use flaot
<fluffypony>
*float
hashtagg_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
oleganza has joined #bitcoin-wizards
hashtag has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
oleganza has quit [Quit: oleganza]
gill3s has joined #bitcoin-wizards
lclc has joined #bitcoin-wizards
frankenmint has joined #bitcoin-wizards
frankenmint has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
oleganza has joined #bitcoin-wizards
grandmaster has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
MoALTz has joined #bitcoin-wizards
melvster has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
jtimon has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
LeMiner has joined #bitcoin-wizards
damethos has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<dgenr8>
jgarzik: this may be dense, but i need help seeing why. a specialized DHT would not replace bitcoin, but rather implement the permanent detail-transaction portion of the block storage database, and serve as a shared mempool. nodes such as miners could still cache local copies of whatever they needed.
crowleyman has joined #bitcoin-wizards
afk11 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<dgenr8>
you might need two 'indexes' corresponding to mapTx (to support tx lookup) and mapNextTx (to support partitioning validation). I don't know if this is possible with a DHT, other than by having two DHT's.
PRab_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<dgenr8>
Since inputs can be combined arbitrarily, a node might need to request history from the network to fully validate txes it is partailly responsible for. maybe this could be mitigated by limiting the # of inputs.
Starduster has joined #bitcoin-wizards
PRab has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
PRab_ is now known as PRab
frankenmint has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Starduster_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<afk11>
hi all. I'm trying explore the stratum protocol a bit, but a bit confused. for starters I sent some curl requests, but don't seem to get any response
williamdunne has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<afk11>
I notice that it has some element of long-polling in there, so curious what I'm missing
<fluffypony>
afk11: #bitcoin-dev
MoALTz has quit [Quit: Leaving]
damethos has quit [Quit: Bye]
kaykurokawa has joined #bitcoin-wizards
oleganza has joined #bitcoin-wizards
MoALTz has joined #bitcoin-wizards
PRab_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
gill3s has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
c0rw1n is now known as c0rw|afk
MoALTz_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
PRab has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
PRab_ is now known as PRab
p15_ has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
MoALTz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
p15 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
MoALTz_ has quit [Client Quit]
p15 has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
arubi has joined #bitcoin-wizards
gill3s has joined #bitcoin-wizards
p15 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jhogan42 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
belcher has joined #bitcoin-wizards
kaykurokawa has quit [Quit: Leaving]
zooko has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
ThomasV has joined #bitcoin-wizards
lclc has joined #bitcoin-wizards
belcher_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
belcher has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
frankenmint has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
oleganza has quit [Quit: oleganza]
lclc has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
gill3s has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
oleganza has joined #bitcoin-wizards
LeMiner has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
LeMiner has joined #bitcoin-wizards
wallet42 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
LeMiner has quit [Client Quit]
LeMiner has joined #bitcoin-wizards
zmachine has joined #bitcoin-wizards
frankenmint has joined #bitcoin-wizards
frankenmint has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
kompreni has joined #bitcoin-wizards
MoALTz has joined #bitcoin-wizards
p15 has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
Burrito has joined #bitcoin-wizards
p15 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
shesek has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
p15 has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
p15 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
sickpig has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jeremyrubin has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
wallet42 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jeremyrubin has joined #bitcoin-wizards
uydxhc has joined #bitcoin-wizards
lclc has joined #bitcoin-wizards
uydxhc has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
frankenmint has joined #bitcoin-wizards
sickpig has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
jgarzik has quit [Quit: Leaving]
jae_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
p15 has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
c0rw|afk is now known as c0rw1n
p15 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
lclc has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
sickpig has joined #bitcoin-wizards
p15 has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
p15 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
gill3s has joined #bitcoin-wizards
zooko has joined #bitcoin-wizards
heath_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
[1]LeMiner has joined #bitcoin-wizards
heath_ is now known as heath
LeMiner has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[1]LeMiner is now known as LeMiner
heath has quit [Client Quit]
heath has joined #bitcoin-wizards
LeMiner has quit [Changing host]
LeMiner has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jhogan42 has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
s3gfault has joined #bitcoin-wizards
p15 has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
p15 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<lmatteis>
are there any academics around doing research in bitcoin? i'm looking for venues, journals, conferences that deal with bitcoin or p2p systems in general