#bitcoin-wizards on 2016-03-20 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2015-10-30 00:53 sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja

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12:22 <nsh> --

12:22 <nsh> Abstract: This paper investigates the existence of cryptographic functions and protocols in a model of computation based on compass-and-straightedge (C&S) geometry. The inability to share a secret in this model gives us insight into the nature of both the C&S and traditional Turing Machine (TM) models. We provide substantial introduction for the benefit of mathematicians not particularly familiar wi

12:22 <nsh> th computability, computational complexity, or cryptography

12:22 <nsh> -- http://math.uchicago.edu/~may/VIGRE/VIGRE2007/REUPapers/FINALFULL/Ruggeri.pdf

12:22 <nsh> Example 5.1.

12:22 <nsh> Sample a point z∈C. This defines an angle ∠ZOex. It is easy to construct an angle which is triple this. Further, it is elementary to prove that one cannot trisect this arbitrary angle in the C&S model. So constructing the triple is a one-way function. Burmester, Rivest, and Shamir used this as the basis of a zero-knowledge proof of knowledge.

12:22 <nsh> -- heh...

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12:55 <TheIdea> does anyone know a good flowchart software that can be used interactively with other over the www?

12:55 <TheIdea> there is jsPlumb but I can't find the interactive part

12:55 <TheIdea> with others

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13:12 <waxwing> nsh: thanks for the link to schnorr.md writeup, that helps.

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14:14 <itsmeagainn> http://i.piccy.info/i9/c7feca678551893bce9f8a675be88647/1458235015/63770/1015338/pc.jpg 17hKzAXSi6uqGb9hVQFARgrt1HEHamAtua

14:15 <petertodd> https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/711509076065255424 <- turns out that you can put multiple PGP sigs on a single git commit, along with all kinds of other fun

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14:33 <waxwing> cool, always wondered about that.

14:34 <waxwing> so with this schnorr M of M, could you not just have a single signature for a btc transaction - say all input utxos have different pubkeys - and not even need the hash-then-add trick? because pubkeys are defined in the utxos.

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15:01 <bsm1175321> waxwing: What kind of UTXOs have pubkeys in them? UTXOs have hash(pubkey) which can't be used...

15:02 <waxwing> bsm1175321: sure of course you'd have to publish the pubkey, but my point is that it's fixed by the utxo

15:02 <bsm1175321> True. That's an interesting idea.

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15:55 <TheIdea> I've created a visual representation with some sybil attempts: http://creately.com/diagram/im0kx96s1/Bmt3vH6dsiGaJyqHoOsKrWSrMw= would be nice to get some critic

16:00 <Taek> woah that's a cool tool

16:02 <Taek> TheIdea: 'vouch of Genuinity' is not likely to work very well. If you look at the history of the Turing Test you'll see that increasingly robots are able to convince humans that they are humans

16:02 <Taek> often using cheap + dirty tricks, and once you realize you've been fooled you can tell in hindsight, but in this case a person might never realize that they are being fooled

16:04 <bsm1175321> The only way to reliably identify humans is centralized: birth, death, drivers license registries. And, there's a non-trivial error rate no matter what you do. Humans are so last century.

16:04 <TheIdea> thats why unidentified users have low credibility

16:05 <TheIdea> and can't sign eContracts that need proof of Identity

16:06 <TheIdea> the idea is that everything is optional and the community is in control of everything

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16:07 <TheIdea> hurdles and failsafes and a dynamically changeable system that adapts to threats

16:07 <TheIdea> that is still missing from the visualisation

16:07 <TheIdea> Ill have to make a new one for that

16:08 <TheIdea> I think Ill work on that now

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16:16 <nsh> waxwing, np :)

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18:31 <TheIdea> I've updated my project with a visualizations: http://sandboiler.tigrimigri.com/ I'd love to hear your opinions and criticism. Where you want more detail what should be changed etc.

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