sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<nicolagreco>
a bit of a random question, but is there a way to prove that a snapshot of a state comes from a log of operations (without involving consensus)?
<nicolagreco>
(I guess this is the proof of consistency that things like ethereum do)
<Taek>
Naively you could require the log and then process the whole thing
<Taek>
this is basically what Bitcoin validation does
<Taek>
If the rules of your log are simple, you could use a zk-snark
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<Taek>
then you don't need to process the whole log yourself. Someone does, but once you have the proof from the snark, it's a lot faster to verify
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<kanzure>
you can also do probabilistically checkable proofs, which are essentially zk-snarks... so..
<kanzure>
you can also do public auditing with secure multiparty computation, but this is essentially multisig stuff
<kanzure>
er... i don't know why i said auditing, i meant the audit log + verification stuff.
* nsh
muses
<nsh>
at best you can only prove up to convergence if more than one way to end at a given state
<nsh>
e.g. with a chess transcript there could be arbitrary numbers of moves elided
<nicolagreco>
(sorry all, I have forgot to say "efficient way to prove", meaning that it has to perform better than re-running the entire log)
<Taek>
snarks can do that, but snarks require a lot of engineering
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<nsh>
cut and choose is probably as good as you get with moonmaths
<nsh>
*without
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<proslogion>
that should depend on the nature of the operations
<nicolagreco>
say it adding removing keys from a key value store (so only get and put ops)
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