sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<fibonacci_> For being wizards (or as I like to say HUGE NERDS) you sure are a quiet bunch.
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<tromp_> :q
<tromp_> wrong window:(
<tromp_> (oops; just revealed my editor religion:)
<instagibbs> <insert Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912 joke>
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<fluffypony> kanzure, Eliel: I missed the question on botnets, is it still open?
<Eliel> fluffypony: yes, it's the kind of always open question :)
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<kanzure> fluffypony: yes the question is whether we have data on botnets mining altcoins
<fluffypony> we don't have any hard data for Monero
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<Eliel> well, hard data is probably very hard to get. the botnets most likely won't want to advertise being botnets
<fluffypony> we're pretty sure there are multiple botnets mining it, besides the obvious like AdylKuzz and the QNAP malware
<kanzure> elaborate on the obvious ones?
<fluffypony> AdylKuzz predates WannaCry
<fluffypony> but uses the same infection vectors
<fluffypony> was only discovered after WannaCry
<fluffypony> it looks like the only thing it does is mine Monero
<Eliel> fluffypony: do you have an estimate for how much of the hashpower is from botnets?
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<fluffypony> yes
<fluffypony> when they use known pools we contact them and they ban the mining address
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<fluffypony> so they setup private pools
<fluffypony> which means they're in the 18% "Unknown" section
<fluffypony> I'd imagine that the entire 18% is made up of botnets, or at least most of it
<kanzure> wouldn't it be better to know who they are..?
<fluffypony> a small portion will be solo miners
<fluffypony> kanzure: can't identify a private pool
<Eliel> ok, that's a percentage that's still tolerable in terms of security.
<kanzure> no i mean why are you asking them to ban the known addresses?
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<fluffypony> oh I see
<kanzure> wait what why would 18% be tolerable
<fluffypony> so QNAP asked us to get IPs first
<fluffypony> and it was using a known pool, so I pointed them to the pool
<kanzure> (i'm a little hesitant to be okay with "all unknown is botnet" btw)
<fluffypony> the pool harvested IP addresses for a while, but is returning null getwork (or our getwork equivalent)
<fluffypony> I don't know much beyond that because I'm out the loop and the QNAP engineers are dealing directly with the pool now
<Eliel> kanzure: if it was one centralized party, it wouldn't be tolerable. However, it's an open competition internally.
<fluffypony> yeah it's multiple botnets making up the 18%, and it's not like they can avoid following the rules
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<kanzure> fluffypony: context is hypothetical bitcoin pow change, concern is that botnets will immediately deploy the pow change and this makes the whole thing less decentralized.
<fluffypony> ah I see
<fluffypony> I don't think they could deploy changes that quickly
<fluffypony> a lot of these seem to be fire-and-forget with no C&C
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<fluffypony> so when the mining pool started blackholing them they didn't change pools
<kanzure> botnet operators have forgotten how to deploy software?
<fluffypony> they just kept beating the same pool
<fluffypony> and new IPs were doing the same thing
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<kanzure> fluffypony: thanks.
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<fluffypony> pleasure
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