sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<kanzure>
maaku: off-by-one errors are the hardest..
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<maaku>
I know about the use of 2015 blocks not 2016, of course, but somehow I'd just assumed without checking that the target interval was 2015*600
<maaku>
It's more accurate to say that bitcoin targets 599.7 blocks.
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<luke-jr>
maaku: it's always skewed more than that anyway
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<Dave_>
hi
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<nsh>
"If you are not worried about revealing information, then you can commit to the set of data items in one Merkle tree, and to the frontier of that set in another Merkle tree. A frontier is the set of ancestors to all values that are not in the tree (note that this is about the same size as the size of the set itself). Then, in order to prove that a value is inside the set you work with the first tree, and in order to prove that it is not you work with
<kanzure>
for ordered trees wouldn't you just reveal both the neighbors that should be surrounding the expected member, and show that therefore the member is not there?
<nsh>
only if the ordering is arithmetic i guess
<nsh>
current topological ordering of txs wouldn't have that property
<nsh>
or am i being stupid?
<nsh>
'ordered' vs. 'sorted' i guess
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<maaku>
reveal the hashes of a block, and the midstate of the coinbase to prove it's the lowest level?
<maaku>
That's not exactly SPV, but it's 100k of data instead of 2-4MB
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<maaku>
nsh: I think the point is a commitment to an ordered tree is basically the same as the frontier except more useful, so what's the point of the frontier tree?
* nsh
nods
<RubenSomsen>
isn't client side filtering (neutrino) a way to prove non-inclusion?
<nsh>
"Therefore, the Extended Euclidean Algorithm can be used to decide whether an element of R/a is a unit and to compute its inverse if it is a unit." # is probably how you avoid needing trapdoor/TS
<nsh>
(perhaps you can create a bulletproofs-like scheme using this property?)
<nsh>
(or MW)
<nsh>
(perhaps like this "More specifically,our system allows demonstrating the knowledge of a hash chain from the con-sidered secret leaf to the root in a zero-knowledge manner." - https://hal.inria.fr/hal-01314642/document )
<nsh>
[W]e achieve: The first lattice-based ring signature with logarithmic signature size in the cardinality of the ring. So far, all suggested proposals have linear size in the number of ring members. – A lattice-based group signature with much shorter public key, signature length, and weaker hardness assumptions than all earlier realizations."
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