#bitcoin-wizards on 2019-07-18 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2015-10-30 00:53 sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja

00:00 Guest40772 has quit []

00:01 elichai2 has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]

00:02 rusty has joined #bitcoin-wizards

00:03 rusty has quit [Client Quit]

00:03 rusty has joined #bitcoin-wizards

00:04 martind1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

00:08 pinheadmz has quit [Quit: pinheadmz]

00:28 justanotheruser has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]

00:29 TheoStorm has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]

00:53 michaelfolkson has joined #bitcoin-wizards

00:56 elichai2 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

00:57 Dean_Guss has joined #bitcoin-wizards

00:59 pinheadmz has joined #bitcoin-wizards

01:00 justanotheruser has joined #bitcoin-wizards

01:04 justan0theruser has joined #bitcoin-wizards

01:07 justanotheruser has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]

01:26 vtnerd has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]

01:31 pinheadmz has quit [Quit: pinheadmz]

01:48 captjakk has joined #bitcoin-wizards

01:51 justan0theruser is now known as justanotheruser

01:55 michaelfolkson has quit [Quit: Sleep mode]

02:01 Honethe_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]

02:12 pinheadmz has joined #bitcoin-wizards

02:19 Belkaar has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]

02:19 sanket1729 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

02:20 Belkaar has joined #bitcoin-wizards

02:20 Belkaar has quit [Changing host]

02:20 Belkaar has joined #bitcoin-wizards

02:45 Dean_Guss has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

02:46 Dean_Guss has joined #bitcoin-wizards

02:47 mryandao has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.3 - https://znc.in]

02:47 tombusby has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]

02:47 sanket1729 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

02:47 ghost43_ has quit [Quit: Leaving]

02:48 jb55 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]

02:48 mryandao has joined #bitcoin-wizards

02:49 ghost43 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

02:49 jb55 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

02:50 tombusby has joined #bitcoin-wizards

02:50 pinheadmz has quit [Quit: pinheadmz]

02:52 sanket1729 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]

03:00 martind1 has quit []

03:04 pdurbin1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

03:41 elichai2 has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]

03:44 pinheadmz has joined #bitcoin-wizards

03:49 cargoshorts has joined #bitcoin-wizards

04:10 cargoshorts has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]

04:14 captjakk has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

04:41 queip has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]

04:48 queip has joined #bitcoin-wizards

06:00 pdurbin1 has quit []

06:00 DeanWeen has joined #bitcoin-wizards

06:02 Dean_Guss has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]

06:04 gchaix has joined #bitcoin-wizards

06:29 harrigan has joined #bitcoin-wizards

06:51 harrigan has quit [Quit: harrigan]

06:52 pinheadmz has quit [Quit: pinheadmz]

07:16 harrigan has joined #bitcoin-wizards

07:21 rh0nj has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

07:24 rh0nj has joined #bitcoin-wizards

07:31 Krellan has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

07:32 Krellan has joined #bitcoin-wizards

07:37 Krellan has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]

07:40 rusty has quit [Quit: Leaving.]

07:44 jungly has joined #bitcoin-wizards

07:52 queip has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]

07:59 queip has joined #bitcoin-wizards

08:05 setpill has joined #bitcoin-wizards

08:17 rusty has joined #bitcoin-wizards

08:21 rusty has quit [Client Quit]

08:21 rusty has joined #bitcoin-wizards

08:21 tromp has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]

08:22 rusty has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

08:26 harrow has quit [Quit: Leaving]

08:27 michaelfolkson has joined #bitcoin-wizards

08:30 tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards

08:32 TheoStorm has joined #bitcoin-wizards

08:34 Krellan has joined #bitcoin-wizards

08:36 harrow has joined #bitcoin-wizards

08:37 TheoStorm has quit [Quit: Leaving]

08:45 AaronvanW has joined #bitcoin-wizards

08:52 jonatack has joined #bitcoin-wizards

09:00 gchaix has quit []

09:04 j3parker1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

09:08 Krellan has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]

09:10 michaelfolkson has quit [Quit: Sleep mode]

09:19 michaelfolkson has joined #bitcoin-wizards

09:26 queip has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]

09:27 belcher has quit [Quit: Leaving]

09:32 michaelfolkson has quit [Quit: Sleep mode]

09:33 michaelfolkson has joined #bitcoin-wizards

09:34 queip has joined #bitcoin-wizards

09:38 Honethe_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards

09:45 Guyver2 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

09:56 michaelfolkson has quit [Quit: Sleep mode]

10:02 michaelfolkson has joined #bitcoin-wizards

10:06 jonatack has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

10:07 jonatack has joined #bitcoin-wizards

10:16 Krellan has joined #bitcoin-wizards

10:31 jb55 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]

10:33 TheoStorm has joined #bitcoin-wizards

10:36 TheoStorm has quit [Client Quit]

10:37 jonatack has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]

10:39 cargoshorts has joined #bitcoin-wizards

10:48 Krellan has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]

10:50 cargoshorts has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]

10:51 queip has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]

10:57 queip has joined #bitcoin-wizards

11:01 Honethe_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]

11:22 ghost43 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

11:23 ghost43 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

11:25 michaelfolkson has quit [Quit: Sleep mode]

11:32 michaelfolkson has joined #bitcoin-wizards

11:33 TheoStorm has joined #bitcoin-wizards

11:34 TheoStorm has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

11:39 michaelfolkson has quit [Quit: Sleep mode]

12:00 j3parker1 has quit []

12:05 Krellan has joined #bitcoin-wizards

12:13 Aaronvan_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards

12:13 [LE] has joined #bitcoin-wizards

12:16 AaronvanW has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]

12:27 brianhoffman has joined #bitcoin-wizards

12:41 Krellan has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]

12:53 harrigan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]

13:05 harrigan has joined #bitcoin-wizards

13:19 Aaronvan_ is now known as AaronvanW

13:22 michaelfolkson has joined #bitcoin-wizards

13:23 michaelfolkson has quit [Client Quit]

13:23 TheoStorm has joined #bitcoin-wizards

13:26 TheoStorm has quit [Client Quit]

13:30 Krellan has joined #bitcoin-wizards

13:36 Jmabsd has joined #bitcoin-wizards

13:36 <Jmabsd> Just curious, do you have any thoughts on the Avalance consensus algorithm published last year -

13:36 <Jmabsd> My best impression is that it does not satisfy its claims, while of course it was published with great fanfare.

13:37 <Jmabsd> It basically passes around votes for a DAG, and then says, once a node received X of others' votes, DOS protection kicks in which means you must have the truth now.

13:41 elichai2 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

13:53 <Jmabsd> http://muratbuffalo.blogspot.com/2018/06/snowflake-to-avalanche-novel-metastable.html

13:53 <sarang> Non-secured HTTP link? Risky ;)

14:11 jonatack has joined #bitcoin-wizards

14:15 pinheadmz has joined #bitcoin-wizards

14:21 TheoStorm has joined #bitcoin-wizards

14:31 jb55 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

14:34 Krellan has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]

14:37 jonatack has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]

14:39 michaelsdunn1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

14:56 Honthe has joined #bitcoin-wizards

14:58 harrigan has quit [Quit: harrigan]

14:59 TheoStorm has quit [Quit: Leaving]

15:00 [LE] has quit []

15:07 michaelfolkson has joined #bitcoin-wizards

15:07 michaelfolkson has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

15:10 Krellan has joined #bitcoin-wizards

15:16 setpill has quit [Quit: o/]

15:17 llfourn has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]

15:18 DrGuschtel has joined #bitcoin-wizards

15:18 llfourn has joined #bitcoin-wizards

15:24 michaelfolkson has joined #bitcoin-wizards

15:25 michaels_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards

15:25 michaelfolkson has quit [Client Quit]

15:28 michaelsdunn1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]

15:29 TheoStorm has joined #bitcoin-wizards

15:30 TheoStorm has quit [Client Quit]

15:30 harrigan has joined #bitcoin-wizards

15:30 harrigan has quit [Client Quit]

15:38 emilengler has joined #bitcoin-wizards

15:45 jtimon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]

15:46 Emilstud has joined #bitcoin-wizards

15:46 Emilstud has quit [Client Quit]

15:47 Krellan has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]

15:47 TheoStorm has joined #bitcoin-wizards

15:48 emilengler has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]

15:49 emilengler has joined #bitcoin-wizards

15:58 emilengler has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]

16:10 emilengler has joined #bitcoin-wizards

16:10 elichai2 has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]

16:13 emilengler has quit [Client Quit]

16:19 Krellan has joined #bitcoin-wizards

16:24 Krellan has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]

16:25 TheoStorm has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]

16:25 DeanWeen has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]

16:27 michaels_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

16:28 emilengler has joined #bitcoin-wizards

16:29 emilengler has quit [Client Quit]

16:31 Krellan has joined #bitcoin-wizards

16:34 emilengler has joined #bitcoin-wizards

16:37 Krellan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]

16:42 jonatack has joined #bitcoin-wizards

16:57 jonatack has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]

16:58 michaelsdunn1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

17:02 pinheadmz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]

17:02 pinheadmz has joined #bitcoin-wizards

17:04 Krellan has joined #bitcoin-wizards

17:05 jungly has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

17:10 arubi has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

17:10 Krellan has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]

17:30 Jmabsd has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]

17:31 justanotheruser has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]

17:33 michaelsdunn1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

17:35 Krellan has joined #bitcoin-wizards

17:41 Krellan has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]

17:45 takinbo has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]

17:45 jbenet has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]

17:46 moneyball has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds]

17:48 takinbo has joined #bitcoin-wizards

17:48 jbenet has joined #bitcoin-wizards

17:48 moneyball has joined #bitcoin-wizards

17:57 TheoStorm has joined #bitcoin-wizards

17:59 michaelsdunn1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

18:00 DrGuschtel has quit []

18:03 zalun1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

18:05 Krellan has joined #bitcoin-wizards

18:07 justanotheruser has joined #bitcoin-wizards

18:19 Krellan has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]

18:26 jtimon has joined #bitcoin-wizards

18:39 Krellan has joined #bitcoin-wizards

18:42 harrigan has joined #bitcoin-wizards

18:43 elichai2 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

18:47 jonatack has joined #bitcoin-wizards

18:47 DeanWeen has joined #bitcoin-wizards

18:57 DeanWeen has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

18:57 DeanWeen has joined #bitcoin-wizards

18:59 michaelsdunn1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

19:16 michaelsdunn1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards

19:29 queip has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]

19:33 TheoStorm has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]

19:36 queip has joined #bitcoin-wizards

19:46 harrigan has quit [Quit: harrigan]

19:59 emilengler has quit [Quit: Leaving]

20:03 TheoStorm has joined #bitcoin-wizards

20:03 TheoStorm has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

20:09 justanotheruser has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]

20:17 justanotheruser has joined #bitcoin-wizards

20:30 tombusby has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

20:31 tombusby has joined #bitcoin-wizards

20:34 tombusby has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

20:35 tombusby has joined #bitcoin-wizards

20:39 harrigan has joined #bitcoin-wizards

20:40 harrigan has quit [Client Quit]

20:43 Guyver2 has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]

20:57 belcher has joined #bitcoin-wizards

21:00 zalun1 has quit []

21:04 nirik-fre has joined #bitcoin-wizards

21:19 <digi_james> sipa: Hello. I have a question on Taproot PubKeys. I fail to understand why highest two True bits on the 33B PubKey block prevent ambiguity in reading the output script pattern. P2WPKH/P2WSH have different (second) witness element sizes(20/32). You mention it simplifies analysis "without knowledge of the UTXO being spent", what is meant by that? Thank you.

21:21 <sipa> digi_james: every valid P2WPKH/P2WSH witness has as last stack element a byte that is 02/03 (for p2wpkh) or a non-invalid opcode (for p2wsh)

21:21 <sipa> the range 0xc0-0xff falls outside both classes

21:29 queip has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]

21:35 queip has joined #bitcoin-wizards

21:57 <sipa> so if taproot with this rule is on the network, you can distinguish taproot witnesses (and their annexes) from p2wpkh/p2wsh spends by looking at the first byte of the last witness stack element

22:02 <digi_james> sipa: Ah, I see, this is to distinguish to spends of different output types without knowing the utxo? So if a transaction is verified during mempool acceptance, we have to consider the utxo anyhow, so where is this optimisation helpful?

22:03 <sipa> digi_james: everywhere that's not in validation :)

22:03 <sipa> e.g. computing the weight of a transaction

22:03 <sipa> before it's broadcast

22:03 <sipa> (this is taking into account that an annex may be present that modifies the weight of a tx due to the presence of expensive opcodes)

22:09 Krellan has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

22:10 Krellan has joined #bitcoin-wizards

22:16 Zenton has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]

22:17 <digi_james> sipa: Has the weight computation changed from segwit v0 to taproot spends?

22:19 <sipa> digi_james: no

22:19 Krellan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]

22:19 <sipa> digi_james: but later extensions could (that's part of the rationale for the annex)

22:25 queip has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]

22:32 queip has joined #bitcoin-wizards

22:41 Krellan has joined #bitcoin-wizards

22:42 jb55 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

22:43 michaelsdunn1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

22:45 AaronvanW has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

22:48 Krellan has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]

22:54 AaronvanW has joined #bitcoin-wizards

23:01 gribble has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

23:04 spinza has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...]

23:06 DeanWeen has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]

23:09 gribble has joined #bitcoin-wizards

23:11 <digi_james> sipa: Thx for the clarification!

23:11 spinza has joined #bitcoin-wizards

23:13 TheoStorm has joined #bitcoin-wizards

23:14 TheoStorm has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

23:20 Krellan has joined #bitcoin-wizards

23:31 AaronvanW has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

23:32 darosior has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]

23:39 darosior has joined #bitcoin-wizards

23:44 gribble has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

23:56 Krellan has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]