sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<mael-rolland[m]>
to read you or discuss with you. Thanks
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<jimmysong>
does anyone know of HD wallet standards for creating multisig addresses?
<jimmysong>
the only one I could find was BIP45, but it's horribly outdated and doesn't cover segwit
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<jimmysong>
also, are there any thoughts about using a particular HD path for use to encrypt/decrypt wallet data?
<jimmysong>
It really sucks to have to restore stuff from seed, especially in a multisig context, and keeping utxo/witness/redeem information backed up in an encrypted form seems useful
<jimmysong>
harding: I'm aware of the descriptor language, which is great. I guess I'm asking for some standard derivation path to use. I'd like something like BIP84 so there's a standard path for everybody and not some arbitrary group. Does that make sense?
<jimmysong>
In a sense, I want an opinionated way to use the descriptors =)
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<jimmysong>
Are either of those things worth making a BIP out of? Both are problems that I'm encountering writing a multisig wallet.
<sipa>
i have no opinions
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<harding>
jimmysong: I'm not sure it makes sense given that people might use the same HD seed to participate in multiple multisigs. E.g. Alice might use a multisig backup recovery scheme for her personal funds while using the same HD seed to also participate in a 2-of-3 for securing funds at her job. I think it's best to just let each wallet say to other wallets participating in the multisig, "here's the info you need to pass back to me in
<harding>
order for me to derive the correct signing key".
<jimmysong>
sure, then you can have something like m/X'/0', m/X'/1' and so on. Every wallet has to create those anyway, it'd be nice if there were a standard
<harding>
jimmysong: a BIP for using an HD wallet to derive a key to use with symmetric encryption for the purpose of creating data and metadata backups sounds reasonable to me.
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<harding>
jimmysong: sure, I think it'd be fine if there were a standard, but the problem past standards have had is finding a universally-acceptable balance between hardenend and non-hardened derivation paths (plus the problem of "I already implemented this and I'm not changing my path now").
<jimmysong>
handing: thanks! I'm currently using ECDH to create a new point, derive a shared secret, use that as the key to an AES cipher. Does that sound like a reasonable thing to do?
<jimmysong>
harding: true, the nice thing is that there really aren't many multisig wallets yet, especially p2wsh
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<harding>
jimmysong: I think you'd want to simplify to avoid using the ECDH. I think I'd just use the chaincode at a particular HD path.
<harding>
(Though maybe some HD libraries don't expose that?)
<jimmysong>
I guess if it's a hardened path no one has access to, that would work
<harding>
Oh, yeah, HD wallets are probably not going to expose the chain code. So maybe just use a hash of pubkey.
<harding>
s/HD/hardware/
<jimmysong>
it feels a bit weird to me to use a pubkey as a secret, though.
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<jimmysong>
ECDH is easy enough to implement. prepend the payload with the public point and initialization vector.
<jimmysong>
restoring is more annoying, especially if you want the private key offline
<jimmysong>
so maybe public key is better.
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