<purr>
<joelteon> i'm singlehandedly trying to make yesod enterprise-ready
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<eligrey>
where can i find a free template for a fancy corporate site that says a lot but means nothing?
<eligrey>
i want to set up a site for my corp and i never got to it ever
<eligrey>
i don't want to write any copy. the standard bs is fine with me :p
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<pikajude>
im bored
<pikajude>
what should i waste time in today
<pikajude>
maybe rust
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<purr>
<alexgordon> ikr
<pikajude>
-what
<purr>
<ELLIOTTCABLE> my period moved D:
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<purr>
<joelteon> dude lenses are FUCKING COOL
<purr>
<whitequark> glowcoil: i dissent, radiocarbon dating is very useful
<pikajude>
ugh
<pikajude>
i'm reading about this woman that got fired from yelp after writing the open letter to her CEO
<pikajude>
it's very depressing
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<purr>
<ELLIOTTCABLE> now telling any person who insults me to engage in civil engineering
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
anybody awake? hallo lovelies
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
pikajude: I actively dislike her.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
god I want to do code-things
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<purr>
<Nuck> Music is kinda like code. Except louder.
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
nuck: lol wtf
<purr>
lol
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<pikajude>
ELLIOTTCABLE: y
<purr>
<yuffster> No, like, moon-base level awesome people. I mean, they have enough money for a goddamn moon base.
<purr>
<ec> pulsating python of looooooove.
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
pikajude: the girl?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
the first commentor mostly nailed it.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
unfortunately, he sounds like a douchebag;
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but his *arguments* are sound, and basically nail my feelings.
<pikajude>
oh
<pikajude>
i didn't see the first comment
<pikajude>
something about she shouldn't be living there if she has that job right
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Generally speaking, I have endless reserves of compassion for underrepresented or oppressed minorities;
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
With some caveats, I even support basic-income
<pikajude>
what caveats
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but this girl? not one of those people. Frankly, a fool, who moved to *San Francisco*, without a resume / any experience / a college degree, and somehow expected to live and support herself.
<pikajude>
oh, ok
<pikajude>
yeah
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
And then was *surprised*, of all things, when she found it difficult to live (alone, without a roomate, might I add) on a minimum-wage salary, in the most expensive city on the continent.
<pikajude>
guess she asked for it
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
It's not so much even all of that: I despise her for *whining* about it, and for *getting sympathy*:
<pikajude>
i see
<pikajude>
yeah, i'm not sure why she didn't just choose to be rich
<pikajude>
and not whine about it
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm far from one to speak, with all the privilege I live on top of, but, jesus, shouldn't all that compassion be going to people living under *real* oppression, living in *actual* poverty, with no recourse?
<pikajude>
seems like that would have been much easier
<pikajude>
i don't even understand why anybody works a minimum-wage job in san francisco, they must be fucking idiots
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Dude, she could simply move. It sounds like she doesn't *want to*, and that's, like, definitely a shitty situation for her (her only family living in a place she can't afford to live *with* that family),
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but it's absolutely not Yelp's fault that that's the case.
<pikajude>
fair enough
<pikajude>
moving is cheap, right?
<pikajude>
it can't be more expensive than a 10 lb bag of rice
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(There's also a very salient argument to be made here about customer-support personnel being worth more than minimum-wage; but that's ... not the argument she made.)
<pikajude>
i guess if you just carry all your belongings in a big backpack?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(Her argument basically translates to if she moved to SanFran and worked at McDonalds.)
* ELLIOTTCABLE
sighs
<pikajude>
fair enough
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
See, nobody would swallow this shit if she *did* work at McDonalds: this is only sensational because she works at a big tech-name.
<pikajude>
just needs to pull herself up by her bootstraps i guess.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ಠ_ಠ
<pikajude>
oh look, capitalist apologist bullshit in this channel, too.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm hella capitalist.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
How is that news?
<pikajude>
i did not know that
<pikajude>
but that's really depressing
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Just because I think trans/enby folk are Real Humans, and the same of black people and women, doesn't mean I'm a thoroughbred leftist. I'm amazed how many people assume that of me, nowadays; even people who've known me since I was living in 'laska. -_-
<pikajude>
yeah, you have a point
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Re: basic income: basic income wouldn't solve her problem, and that's largely why I don't care for her complaints.
<pikajude>
i think it's because on the face of it, thinking black people and women are Real Humans and at the same time holding utter contempt for the working class looks like cognitive dissonance
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
A basic income that is enough to live and support onesself in a cheap place to live, giving one a chance to get on one's feet (whether that's cleaning up addictions, living through medical care for incapacitating conditions whether physical or mental, or even just obtaining a basic education other life situations have denied you) without stress of basic
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
provision for your life …
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I can definitely see how that's arguably a basic right, and thus arguably something that should be provided, even at the expense of others.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
But I *fail* to see how “living near your existing family,” “living where you *want* to live,” or “living in a hip place” is a basic right that the rest of the population should subsidize.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Harsh, I get that, but I also still think true.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
So, yes, basic income with caveats: Enough *to live compfortably*, but not necessarily in literally the most expensive place on the fucking continent. ಠ_ಠ
<pikajude>
where, then?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Almost literally anywhere else.
<pikajude>
talking about like, iowa?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
*shrug* I'm not even that harsh. Iowa's a shithole, and I'm not convinced it's not a human-rights violation to force somebody to move there against their will. ;)
<purr>
¯\(º_o)/¯
<pikajude>
ok
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I mean, I live in Chicago: this isn't a cheap city, but it's still literally half the COL of San Francisco.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
And if you go out into the suburbs, or to some of the smaller towns within a couple hours' drive, you can halve that *again*.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
A guaranteed-income that provides for *comfortable* life (I'm not talking ramen dinners, here.) in Rockford isn't even going to cover *rent with a roomate* in SF. /=
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
pikajude: yes/no?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Like, I want to hear how this makes me an evil, dirty capitalist pig.
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<pikajude>
essentially the sentiment that she asked for it
<pikajude>
and i guess, taking the rent situation in san francisco as some kind of unflappable law of nature
<pikajude>
like, she picked a place to live with her family, and is spending all of her day working, and that is not even close to enough to afford food regularly or live comfortably
<pikajude>
the nerve
<pikajude>
as if rent needs to be that high in SF
<pikajude>
as if people are supposed to be working 3 jobs in order to make basic living income
<pikajude>
why exactly have these conditions arisen?
<pikajude>
the other criticisms i've seen of her post are basically that she has "no work ethic"
<pikajude>
and is now "unemployable"
<pikajude>
that she didn't ingratiate herself enough to the employer who is generous enough to allow her to afford a 10 pound bag of rice to live on
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I didn't say rent *needs* to be that high, but it *is*.
<pikajude>
right. and this woman is saying "here, my rent is this high. i am working x hours for you. why am i so hungry and why do i have no disposable income?"
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and she absolutely *did* ask for it, and she absolutely *is* a fool.
<pikajude>
why aren't they paying her enough to live in SF?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Because the rent situation is ridiculous, not because Yelp fucked her over somehow.
<pikajude>
isn't that where the office is?
<pikajude>
but the office is physically in san francisco, correct?
<pikajude>
presumably, yelp HR officers are aware of how much it costs to live in san francisco, right?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Let's ignore that she was customer-support for a moment, because it absolutely *is* ridiculous that they were paying her so little … but just not for the reasons she addressed:
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
say … mailroom clerk, or sanitation, or maintenance, or something basically unskilled and irrelevant to the company's goals.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
again: that *isn't yelp's problem*.
<pikajude>
of course not
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
It's either, and *only* either,
<pikajude>
their job, as a company in a capitalist society, is to turn a profit at the lowest possible cost.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
1. The Amorphous Population-At-Large's, for rent sucking,
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
or 2. hers, for not *planning for* that reality.
<pikajude>
and talia had, i guess, the disgusting audacity to write to the owner of her workplace (who is a millionaire)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Yelp's mistake: underpaying customer-support, and not already having dislocated jobs that the San Francisco economy cannot support *out of San Francisco*.
<pikajude>
and say "hi, i am at the poverty line and i go to sleep hungry every night"
<pikajude>
and people are horrified!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
yes.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
because that's ridiculous.
<pikajude>
why didn't she plan for this
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Being a millionaire doesn't make that *his problem*.
<pikajude>
sure
<pikajude>
why would it be
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
This is basically the same as her starting a Kickstarter, or something,
<pikajude>
it's not like he controls wages
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
except that nobody starting a Kickstarter-equivalent to get themselves money for transition, or money to move, is writing “Also you're all a ton of fuckfaces for not *already having given* me this money! You're the worst! But also give me your money.”
<pikajude>
actually, i guess it's not his problem, is it. if he paid every employee enough to live comfortably, he'd have a lot of angry shareholders to do some explaining to.
<pikajude>
that poor guy.
* ELLIOTTCABLE
sighs
<pikajude>
did we even read the same article?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Done with this conversation. Way to engage, pikajude.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Your sarcasm is noted and welcomed.
<pikajude>
ok. peace out
<pikajude>
keep in mind that talia is now universally reviled and will have a tough time getting another job, and may become homeless
<pikajude>
as is, presumably, deserved
<pikajude>
that may help you sleep at night
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
pikajude: Universally reviled? I've seen, like, one person on Twitter complaining about her, and one commentor writing out what I mentioned.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Literally everybody else I've seen is either 1. bawling for her, or 2. piling on the one or two people saying anything less-than-complimentary. (see: the last half-hour in here.)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
maybe it's just different social-spheres, but still.
<pikajude>
Interesting definition of "done"
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
There's plenty of people in *my* sphere who would literally hire her now *just out of spite at Yelp being The Big Bad Evil*, much less any qualifications necessary whatsoever.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
pikajude: ... says the person who kept saying things?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
jesus fucking christ, are you for real right now? Criticizing me for saying ‘I want nothing to do with this conversation,’ and yet still replying when you say something shitty about me after I left?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
fuck riiiiight off.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Whatever your viewpoint on this person and her choices, or on the politics involved:
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'd like you, some time, to go back and read over how you've acted during this conversation. To me. Somebody you know.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
It's *real* shitty.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I dunno if you're unaware, because you've got Strong Feelings on the topic; or if you're aware, and don't care.
<pikajude>
Lol. What? you said you were done. I didn't
<purr>
lolllll
<pikajude>
You don't get to call "end of conversation" unless you want to mute me or aeon thing
<pikajude>
something
<pikajude>
Anyway I am genuinely sorry ec, it is something I feel strongly about but I never meant to personally insult you
* ELLIOTTCABLE
nods
<pikajude>
I was just dismayed to hear your opinion on the subject
* ELLIOTTCABLE
hugs
<pikajude>
But that's fine, you have your reasons, I have my own
<pikajude>
Friends?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I feel similarly, but regarding how you engaged me, instead of your opinions themselves /=
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
of course <3
<pikajude>
Oh I've been arguing about it for two days w other people
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
for future reference: *am* willing to discuss, *and* am flexible of opinion, given sound arguments and all that
<pikajude>
I am just sick of arguing
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
just have to study really really really badly
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
already wasted half the day teaching somebody Paws by accident
* ELLIOTTCABLE
runs off and hides
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(“teaching somebody Paws by accident”: succinct description of the last six years of my life)