#forth on 2021-03-20 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

01:02 <cmtptr> Zarutian_HTC, no, not a precog, everybody knows volcanos tend to erupt on fridays

01:25 <mark4> thats a lava flow not dust!

01:25 <mark4> no grounded aircraft :)

01:54 <batflu> i love forth

01:59 <cmtptr> what's your favorite forth word

01:59 <cmtptr> mine is probably +

05:37 <siraben> EXIT

12:58 <dzho> dup

12:59 <dzho> not sure, I might need that later, better make a copy

14:45 <mark4> i like drop

14:45 <mark4> perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing left to add

14:45 <mark4> but when there is nothing left to take away

14:49 <mark4> jess is a gentoo guy too? !

14:52 <nihilazo> I think my favorite forth word is bye

14:52 <nihilazo> lol

14:52 <nihilazo> (not because I think exiting forth is good, I just like how informal it is)

14:53 <nihilazo> forth is the only programming language with phatics lol

15:00 <mark4> phatics?

15:04 <nihilazo> phatics in natural language are the things we say that don't mean their literal meaning but instead serve a social function

15:05 <nihilazo> things like greetings, "how're you?" etc are collectively counted as phatics in linguistics. So the word "bye" would be an example of a phatic word. It's kinda dumb because this is the only such word in forth I guess but that's one more than other programming languages have

15:08 <cmtptr> i like bye too

15:09 <cmtptr> thanks for reminding me of it

15:20 <nihilazo> I've been writing my first actual forth project and I'm not sure how I feel about forth currently. It's a mix of feeling like forth is awesome and feeling like I make insane amounts of trivial mistakes

15:27 <patrickg> insame amounts of trivial mistakes are normal when doing something new, so I guess the question is if you feel that the amount tapers off by your third project

15:28 <nihilazo> forth doesn't catch your mistakes for you like other languages do

15:29 <nihilazo> the main thing I keep tripping up is not adding the "f" to words that are working with floats

15:29 <siraben> nihilazo: maybe try to avoid using those words directly and make auxillary definitions (known as factoring)

15:29 <siraben> I found that helpful to treat the data more abstractly

15:30 <nihilazo> yeah I've been factoring out things as soon as I'm using them multiple times

15:30 <nihilazo> which has been helpful

15:33 <nihilazo> but there are many, many ways this code could be cleaner, and I've barely started doing things. I think next I'm going to probably refactor all of the drawing/TUI stuff

15:34 <nihilazo> I feel like I'm overthinking a tiny throwaway project. But throwaway projects are how you learn

15:37 <siraben> mm, I think Thinking Forth has interesting ideas on structuring Forth programs

15:40 <nihilazo> I'm reading thinking forth right now

15:43 <mark4> leo brodie is a good tech writer

15:44 <nihilazo> leo brodie is a very good tech writer

15:44 <nihilazo> I love the illustrations in starting forth

15:53 <mark4> yea i like the dragon best :)

15:53 <mark4> freeking awesome lol

15:55 <nihilazo> the swap dragon!

15:59 <nihilazo> I feel like starting forth is a really good example of how to do good teaching when it comes to a programming language

15:59 <nihilazo> because it avoids being dry, while also not feeling like it's trying to be fun

15:59 <nihilazo> it's just a good book

16:13 <mark4> crc i thik i found the solution to that printf problem we were having :)

16:13 <mark4> num_esc += snprintf(&esc_buff[num_esc],

16:13 <mark4> digits + 3, PRIu64, n1);

16:14 <mark4> PRIu64 is a macro giving the format string for printfing uint64_t types

16:30 <mark4> uint32_t n = snprintf(&esc_buff[num_esc], digits + 3, "%" PRIu64, n1);

16:30 <mark4> bug fixed, the macro does not have a % in it

16:34 <crc> I'll test this when I get home

17:54 <mark4> The country with the highest percentage of climate change believers, and pro environment citizens in the world, just got hammered with enough heat escaping from the volcano to warm every home in the northern hemisphere for 100 years, and it also produced enough CO2 emissions that will come from all cars, truck, airplanes over the next 50 years, world wide.

17:54 <mark4> The Irony, unfortunately.

17:54 <mark4> The country with the highest percentage of climate change believers, and pro environment citizens in the world, just got hammered with enough heat escaping from the volcano to warm every home in the northern hemisphere for 100 years, and it also produced enough CO2 emissions that will come from all cars, truck, airplanes over the next 50 years, world wide.

17:54 <mark4> The Irony, unfortunately.

17:54 <mark4> from a comment on foxnews.com

17:54 <Zarutian_HTC> who reads that disinfotainment site?

17:55 <mark4> According to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), the world’s volcanoes, both on land and undersea, generate about 200 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) annually, while our automotive and industrial activities cause some 24 billion tons of CO2 emissions every year worldwide

17:55 <mark4> someone shot him down :)

17:55 <mark4> i was getting to that part :P

17:56 <mark4> though i question 24 billion tons there

17:56 <Zarutian_HTC> we can agree it is quite a lot

17:57 <mark4> but i dont agree that its harmful because the earth can handle it :)

17:57 <mark4> well. not as harmful as people think

17:58 <Zarutian_HTC> so, I had this biz idea of growing bambus to reduce co2 in the air

17:58 <mark4> this eruption is clearly the fault of biden and the democrats!!!

17:58 <mark4> now THERES one i can agree wiht lol

17:59 <Zarutian_HTC> why bambus? because it grows so fucking quickly of all of the lignin producing plants

17:59 <mark4> heh

17:59 <mark4> bamboo btw

17:59 <mark4> but ya that grows quick

17:59 <Zarutian_HTC> mark4: yeah, they pissed off a geomancer

18:00 <Zarutian_HTC> and bamboo is damn usefull

18:00 <mark4> or god :)

18:00 <mark4> tho im not sure why he would take it out on you guys lol

18:01 <Zarutian_HTC> General Operations Directorate has a geomancers division, just a fyi

18:02 <mark4> do you think its ok to limit a menu bar to 10 entries and each pulldown to 10 entries?

18:02 <mark4> in a console based application?

18:03 <Zarutian_HTC> Text User Interface application using the equiv of ncurses/ansi-vt100 sure

18:03 <Zarutian_HTC> nothing more anoying in gui than a pulldown that goes off screen

18:04 <mark4> exactly!

18:04 <mark4> but do you think 10 items is TOO restrictive?

18:04 <mark4> 10 items in the menu bar max, 10 items in each pulldown max

18:05 <Zarutian_HTC> depends on the feature bloat of the application

18:06 <mark4> actually lol theey can define MANY menu bars and have ONE active menu bar

18:06 <mark4> and can make their entire UI a cluster bleep of states :)

18:06 <mark4> i thin 10 items max is fine