<azonenberg> Tomorrow night's plan - spin coat a quarter of a <110> wafer in Ta2O5 and bake
<azonenberg> in preparation for a Cu evaporation run later in the week
<azonenberg> also, run some tests of dilute SC2 etch rate characterization
<azonenberg> see how dilute an etch is reasonably fast but still controllable
<bart416> azonenberg, we just tried to launch a little small rocket
<bart416> But it started
<bart416> raining
<bart416> lol
<bart416> And it shorted the triggers for the stages
<bart416> so the moment we turned on power all stages fired at once :D
<bart416> things left: first stage nozzle was still on the ground
<bart416> nose cone a few meters further
<bart416> well, at least that means the explosive bolts for the first stage nozzle worked
<bart416> well yeah with bolts I mean rings, lol
<bart416> we use two rings, with spacing in between them in the middle
<bart416> and then clip them together
<bart416> But the system isn't water tight it seems :(
<azonenberg> explosive bolts? What was your separation charge?
<azonenberg> And i wouldnt be sure it's water, could be other interference
<azonenberg> next time try doing a power-on test with empty motor casings
<azonenberg> i'd also strongly suggest a software controlled ignition sequencer of some sort
<azonenberg> Which might allow you to isolate from interference better
<azonenberg> also, try using detonators that are more resistant to EMI
<bart416> the controllers are ATtinys
<bart416> and the separation charge was blackpowder
<bart416> it's powerful enough for this
<bart416> cause the energy has nowhere else to go
<azonenberg> yeah, it'd work
<azonenberg> And is cheaper/safer/easier to get access to than a high explosive lol
<azonenberg> What did you use as the ignition system?
<azonenberg> One of the problems with black powder is that especially the finer grades are afaik pretty static sensitive
<azonenberg> compared to something like RDX
<bart416> High voltage spark
<bart416> we put a small CCFL inverter in the nose cone
<bart416> and distribute that throughout the rocket
<bart416> and switch it on when necessary
<bart416> It's easy, and gets the job done
<bart416> And its reliable
<azonenberg> Interesting
<azonenberg> Problem is that sounds very ESD sensitive
<bart416> The entire setup, yes
<bart416> If water gets in it, it's sort of fucked
<bart416> High voltage + water + explosives nearby = bad
<azonenberg> i wasnt talking water so much as static
<bart416> static isn't that problematic
<azonenberg> i think you need a less sensitive detonator and/or an anti-ESD trigger device
<bart416> all the metal parts are grounded until take off
<azonenberg> not necessarily to the extreme of an EBW
<bart416> actually until about 5 meters altitude it's grounded
<bart416> Then the launch wire snaps lose
<azonenberg> interesting
<bart416> aaaargh, stupid shortcut, lol
<bart416> anyway, its easy enough to do that
<azonenberg> So what was your problem exactly?
<azonenberg> the water shorted out something in the trigger mechanism?
<bart416> water got near the electronics
<azonenberg> i see
<bart416> and short circuited the high voltage
<azonenberg> ...
<azonenberg> yeah, that'd do it
<azonenberg> how were you switching the HV?
<bart416> cheap relays
<azonenberg> And i bet they werent rated for the voltage?
<bart416> They are weirdly enough
<azonenberg> Hmm
<azonenberg> well in any case you've now learned about a few of the problems involving explosives
<azonenberg> one of which is that they dont play well with others
<bart416> I know this is one of the problems :P
<bart416> I've been doing this for years with a bunch of friends
<bart416> It's just that it suddenly started raining
<bart416> so we decided to just go ahead and launch
<bart416> But water got in the wrong spot it seems
<azonenberg> yeah - if you arent sealed and rain-rated i'd say rain is enough to scrub the launch
<bart416> well, it only did a few drops
<azonenberg> Hmm
<azonenberg> bad luck then?
<bart416> it wasn't even really raining yet
<bart416> I guess
<azonenberg> Its also possible there was a short elsewhere
<azonenberg> unrelated to the water
<bart416> Unlikely, we check the wiring before we load fuel
<azonenberg> ok
<bart416> Doesn't matter anyway
<azonenberg> in that case then i guess it was water
<azonenberg> Nothing left of the rocket? :p
<bart416> Not really
<bart416> the nozzle and nose cone
<azonenberg> lol
<azonenberg> any damage beyond the rocket itself? Launch pad, spectators?
<bart416> nozzle was pushed against the ground and it's made out of graphite with a steel ring, so yeah not much that can happen to that
<bart416> launch pad is a slab of concrete :P
<bart416> With a steel rod
<azonenberg> i meant the rod and related stuff
<bart416> no real damage
<bart416> some scorch marks
<azonenberg> Well, if you can have the rocket literally blow up on the pad and not do any harm
<azonenberg> it seems you picked a good launch site
<bart416> open field
<bart416> wet ground
<bart416> Nothing in the immediate area
<bart416> We were all standing at 150m distance
<azonenberg> Were the motors APCP or black powder?
<azonenberg> and what was the total magnitude of the charge?
<azonenberg> Most of the rockets i've done are single stage with one class C black-powder motor
<azonenberg> lol
<bart416> I didn't mix the fuel so not sure what was in it
<bart416> Probably black powder combined with something else
<azonenberg> Yeah, i dont trust my explosives knowledge far enough to make my own propellant charges
<bart416> I avoid making my own solid propellants
<azonenberg> i limit myself to premade motors from a respectable company
<bart416> blackpowder I'll do
<bart416> in small quantites
<bart416> worst that you get from small quantites of blackpowder like I mix would be some minor burns
<bart416> The only rockets where I do the fuel are liquid or hybrid fuel rockets
<bart416> Else I only do the electronics
<bart416> This time all I did was provide the launchpad, lol
<azonenberg> lol
<bart416> It'd be easier if it was destroyed
<bart416> now I had to drag it home again
<azonenberg> Lol
<bart416> The only rocket that has destroyed a launchpad up to now was liquid oxygen + kerosene
<bart416> Damn that was one hell of an explosion, lol
<bart416> You could feel the heat from a rather considerable distance
<azonenberg> lol
<azonenberg> lox + kerosene? I can imagine
<azonenberg> What was the total propellant mass?
<bart416> That time, don't really remember
<bart416> Fairly large
<bart416> The rocket was 2 meter high
<bart416> and 40cm diameter
<bart416> single stage
<bart416> We launched a few of those
<bart416> If there's ever a civil war I know what I'm going to use to take out a small armored vehicle...
<bart416> The issue is, the range of our radio is roughly 600 meter
<bart416> it went higher than that
<bart416> so we can't really be sure
<bart416> But of the 6 we launched in total 2 came back to the ground in one piece
<bart416> First 2 exploded on the pad
<bart416> (bad mixing ratios + not enough cooling)
<bart416> third one acted weird
<bart416> Huge inferno
<bart416> We thought it exploded
<bart416> but it started lifting anyway
<bart416> But exploded a few meters of the ground
<bart416> Fourth one broke up on decent
<bart416> (bad parachute attachment)
<bart416> fifth launch was a large succes
<bart416> sixth launch we used the same one as fifth with some replaced parts obviously
<bart416> But it started showing wear
<bart416> So we scrapped it
<bart416> That was our liquid + kerosene adventure
<bart416> That was totally illegal
<bart416> lol
<bart416> Hence why no pictures or videos are posted on the internet
<bart416> Already had enough complaints due to noise
<bart416> We then switched to liquid oxygen + ethanol
<bart416> Far more stable, but a lot less propulsion
<bart416> but a lot less wear on the engine parts
<bart416> azonenberg, just heard something rather wow o_O
<bart416> A friend of mine works at TI
<bart416> And his wife can't get kids due to cancer in the past
<bart416> And TI covers legal costs o_O
<bart416> (They're adopting a kid)
<azonenberg> Thats rather nice of them (TI)
<azonenberg> Lol
<azonenberg> And yeah, i never looked up the regulations re liquid propellants
<bart416> Well, strictly speaking launching any rocket we built is sort of borderline illegal
<bart416> We generally cover ourselves under the rather allowing fireworks laws in Belgium
<bart416> Here it's perfectly legal to buy a stack of fireworks and store it on your attic
<bart416> Yay!
<bart416> All you need is an identity card stating you're 18 years or older
<bart416> Also they (TI) seem to have a lot of programs/benefits like that so they can keep their staff for their entire carreer
<swkhan> hello =)
<azonenberg> Hi
<azonenberg> So whats this about memristors?
<azonenberg> I'd suggest you start large
<swkhan> i want to pattern a bottom electrode and a top electron quickly, cheaply, and easily
<azonenberg> My focus right now is on MEMS so i've been putting a lot of work into bulk micromachining of Si
<azonenberg> as well as metal layers
<swkhan> i see
<azonenberg> http://i.imgur.com/ty4lq.jpg is one of my recent experiments
<azonenberg> nyanotechnology ;)
<azonenberg> Might be the smallest nyan cat made to date
<swkhan> omg so cute
<azonenberg> 200um high and 600 long
<azonenberg> pixels are 20um square
<azonenberg> this is 100x magnification
<azonenberg> he's patterned in about 2um of SP24 photoresist over 200nm of copper
<swkhan> you made that at home? o_O
<azonenberg> evaporated onto a glass substrate (microscope cover slip)
<azonenberg> Almost
<azonenberg> I did the copper deposition in a lab on campus
<azonenberg> all of the lithography, as well as the photoresist deposition, was at home
<swkhan> i work in a lab on campus too but it doesn't have all the facilities i'd like
<azonenberg> I overetched a bit (notice the green areas expanded beyond the holes in the mask)
<azonenberg> turns out even five seconds in full strength SC2 is overkill for going through a couple hundred nanometers of Cu
<azonenberg> i'm gonna dilute it like 50:1 for the next etch (tonight) so it's slow enough to be controllable
<azonenberg> I'm also having issues with focuser drift on my microscope objective
<azonenberg> over the 10-ish minute exposure the stage will move down by a couple of microns
<azonenberg> and blur really small features
<azonenberg> i get good results with the 10x objective (so my 200um laser-printed mask becomes 20um per pixel) but the 40x is blurred beyond usability
<azonenberg> Which school is your lab at btw? I'm a PhD student at RPI
<swkhan> well we're at nasa ames. it's a weird collaboration with a lot of different universities
<swkhan> i know a friend who will be going to RPI next year =)
<swkhan> it's a weird collaboration because everyone just gives the facade of collaborating but doesn't actually take many steps to actually get work done
<azonenberg> Lol
<azonenberg> And nice. whats he studying?
<azonenberg> I did my undergrad work at RPI too (computer science)
<azonenberg> graduated last spring and i'm now just starting my doctorate
<azonenberg> But most of my work, as you can probably tell, is leaning toward the EE side of things
<swkhan> i think he's studying materials science
<azonenberg> In that case he'll probably be playing with the same SEM and evaporator i've been using
<swkhan> ooh
<azonenberg> RPI has more than a handful of SEMs
<azonenberg> there's a zeiss supra 55 FESEM in the cleanroom (which is expensive to get on but the best on campus)
<azonenberg> right next to it there's another zeiss, dual beam SEM / FIB
<swkhan> wow a fib
<azonenberg> then outside the cleanroom inthe mat sci department there's an old jeol tungsten-filament SEM, a newer jeol FESEM
<azonenberg> a TEM
<azonenberg> raman spectrometer
<swkhan> wow
<azonenberg> the cleanroom has an AFM
<swkhan> wow a cleanroom afm
<azonenberg> Lots of toys - great as long as you arent the one paying for it
<smeding> wish i could play in our university clean room (DIMES at Delft UT)
<smeding> but that will have to wait until at least the M. Sc i suppose
<azonenberg> I actually got in as an undergrad but it was for an outside consulting project
<azonenberg> and just for SEM imaging of a sample
<azonenberg> Anyway so re memristors - i'm reading a bit on them now
<azonenberg> What exactly are you trying to build?
<azonenberg> Lol. this is probably the most interesting artwork i've ever put on a PCB
<azonenberg> A scale drawing of a CMOS ring oscillator
<azonenberg> bottom copper = diffusion, top copper = metal 1, silkscreen = poly
<smeding> hmm :p
<azonenberg> this is missing vias and body connections, plus all of the other fun stuff you'd need for a real circuit
<azonenberg> But as artwork it should wortk nicely
<azonenberg> oh, the gates on the NAND2 at right should be taller *fixes*
<bart416> smeding, you're at TU Delft?
<smeding> not currently
<smeding> i'm in between my first and second year of the B. Sc EE
<bart416> Where are you at?
<smeding> i live in Noordwijk because living with the
<smeding> 'rents is cheap
<azonenberg> Here we go http://i.imgur.com/k8BCm.png
<azonenberg> Complete with two little pics at top right
<azonenberg> doesnt like empty space in PCBs
<smeding> me neither! all that copper just dissolving into your etchant, such a waste
<smeding> silly PCB artwork is good for the environment!
<azonenberg> lol
<kristianpaul> considering crosstalk between layers.. well :)
<azonenberg> Well i'm not making the board myself - its a 4-layer design
<kristianpaul> oh
<azonenberg> 3.3V and ground planes are in the middle
<bart416> smeding, you're not answer my question
<azonenberg> marked by + and - vias
<bart416> Are you enrolled at Delft or not?
<smeding> bart416: i just said, i am
<azonenberg> kristianpaul: any overall thoughts on the board?
<smeding> bart416: however, don't even have my P yet
<smeding> close though :p
<bart416> Just answer yes if people as if you're there >_>
<kristianpaul> pic32 is to load bitstream?
<bart416> Also why the hell are you complaining then
<bart416> At least you guys have the equipment to do something
<smeding> hm?
<azonenberg> kristianpaul: Lol its overkill for that
<bart416> We have to beg for new oscilloscopes >_>
<smeding> i was... complaining?
<azonenberg> the plan is for the pic32 to be the main CPU and the FPGA to be a GPU
<azonenberg> as well as offloading heavy computation to it
<bart416> "<smeding> wish i could play in our university clean room (DIMES at Delft UT)"
<bart416> ^Sure sounds like it :P
<smeding> not so much a complaint as something i would like to do at some point
<kristianpaul> pci32 is U1 right?
<smeding> it looks like fun, anyway
<azonenberg> Yes
<azonenberg> fpga is U2 - 200k gate spartan-3a
<smeding> but yeah, facilities are definitely very, very good
<azonenberg> in 100vqfp
<azonenberg> U5 and U6 are 1A linear regulators
<kristianpaul> i dont see to much wires between board fpga and pic, os i asume trougput is low?
<kristianpaul> s/to/too
<azonenberg> for the 3.3 and 1.2v rails
<azonenberg> and actually its an 8-bit parallel bus
<azonenberg> which could be clocked at up to 40 MHz
<kristianpaul> he i jsut countent a nibble ;)
<azonenberg> Its not a 64-bit bus or something like that
<kristianpaul> 8 bits seems okay then
<azonenberg> heck, the whole pic is only 64 pins
<kristianpaul> sure sure
<azonenberg> They do have a 100 pin version with a 16 bit parallel port
<azonenberg> but realistically i dont need that much bandwidth
<azonenberg> when i outgrow this board in a few months / a year ish i'll do a 6- or 8-layer design with a 256FTBGA fpga and a softcore CPU (no external MCU)
<azonenberg> and a few hundred megs of SDRAM
<kristianpaul> the sram of the fpga is enought for you app i guess too
<azonenberg> Yeah, i considered an external ram but couldnt route it on 4 layers while also having the IO resources i wanted
<azonenberg> the main purpose of the fpga is to run the video output
<azonenberg> 800x600 VGA in text mode
<azonenberg> curses-type interface
<kristianpaul> that GPIO is what for?
<azonenberg> Seemed a shame to pay $100 for three 4-layer boards and not get access to all the FPGA pins :P
<azonenberg> so i figured i'd break 'em out to a ribbon connector in case i needed them for something in the future
<kristianpaul> considering is just video out vias cross under it..
<azonenberg> this is meant to be a "play around" board, its not for any specific purpose
<kristianpaul> ah ok
<azonenberg> They're gonna be relatively low speed signals
<azonenberg> and there's power and ground planes between themn
<kristianpaul> :)
<azonenberg> everything is single-ended on this board
<azonenberg> except for USB
<azonenberg> the v2 design will be using more differential stuff like TMDS video
<kristianpaul> he, the cap smile footprint :)
<azonenberg> that isnt a cap
<azonenberg> its just a smiley
<kristianpaul> lol
<azonenberg> i like throwing little pictures in that last unused few mm^2 of a board
<azonenberg> note the stuff under it? Not hooked up to anything either
<azonenberg> thats a 7-stage CMOS ring oscillator :P
<kristianpaul> hum i missed usb, is the CONSOLE?
<azonenberg> top copper = metal1, silkscreen = poly, bottom copper = diffusion
<kristianpaul> and yeah, usbon pic32 is host nice
<azonenberg> and actually, both console and keyboard
<kristianpaul> well no more toughts :)
<azonenberg> console is going to an FT232 usb-serial for debugging before i get the video card working
<azonenberg> the keyboard connector is for a standard usb keyboard
<azonenberg> The ultimate plan is to be able to run PICnix on this board without a PC at all
<azonenberg> console interface with usb keyboard and vga out
<kristianpaul> (ring osc) yeah :)
<azonenberg> Recognizable?
<kristianpaul> yes
<azonenberg> Its just a little inside joke for anyone who's studied VLSI and looks at the board lol
<kristianpaul> i first tought was for RF or something then read you comments
<azonenberg> You cant see in this CAD view but i even cut holes in soldermask where i'd put vias to metal 2 or test points
<azonenberg> i usually throw artwork on most of my boards if i have space
<azonenberg> i threw the smiley on two other boards already
<azonenberg> i stuck a companion cube in the CAD for one but the customer scrubbed the project before prototype fab
<azonenberg> the osc is six INVx1 and one NAND2x1 lol
<kristianpaul> bbl