<nathan7>
azonenberg: any progress on the grating?
<bart416>
A guy here got arrested just for storing a lot of chemicals in his house >_>
<bart416>
And I just ordered a new stack of catalogues for chemical products, lawl
<bart416>
Mail man is going to go "wtf"
<Helldesk>
"paper? in this day and age?!"
<azonenberg>
nathan7: Got delayed with all this silly grad school orientation paperwork
<azonenberg>
going to do a test run soon, tonight maybe
<azonenberg>
bart416: what sort of chems?
<azonenberg>
and, just as importantly, in what volumes?
<bart416>
general analytic chemistry
<bart416>
lab quantities
<azonenberg>
So what are they complaining about?
<bart416>
(up to 5l batches)
<bart416>
oh wait you mean the guy that got arrested?
<bart416>
News reports didn't say
<bart416>
But he stacked most of his house, lol
<azonenberg>
Thats a bit excessive
<azonenberg>
and i guess "lab quantities" depends on the type of work
<bart416>
And then he managed to light his attic on fire with 9V batteries >_>
<nathan7>
o.o
<azonenberg>
The most i'd ever order of anything is ~1 liter
<bart416>
I meant what I'm ordering :P
<azonenberg>
and thats only if i cant get a 500ml bottle
<nathan7>
I need a little RP and it's fucking impossible to get
<nathan7>
bloody meth chemists
<nathan7>
s/chemists/cooks/
<nathan7>
they aren't even chemists proper
<azonenberg>
Yeah
<azonenberg>
same thing is annoying me about ethanol
<azonenberg>
i cant get pure ethanol for lab purposes easily
<nathan7>
cranking out goddamn neurotoxic crap
<nathan7>
that only gives you euphoria
<nathan7>
at great cost too
<azonenberg>
ethanol is a solvent for crying out loud... let me use it lol
<nathan7>
mhm
<azonenberg>
dont deliberately contaminate it with stuff to prevent people from drinking it :P
<azonenberg>
i want ACS reagent grade
<azonenberg>
or, better yet, trace metal grade :p
<bart416>
Order through college/university if you can
<nathan7>
I should annoy my chem teacher for that RP if I don't manage to get it soon
<bart416>
(also I meant the catalogs I ordered were for analytic chemistry in lab quantities)
<azonenberg>
oh
<azonenberg>
just saying, if i could get most of the stuff i have
<azonenberg>
in 100ml volumes
<azonenberg>
i would
<bart416>
100ml but what purity?
<azonenberg>
Trace metal, standard reagent, or in some cases even technical grade
<azonenberg>
for example i have a *two pound* jar of KOH flakes i use for anisotropic silicon etching
<azonenberg>
a hundred grams would last me a long time
<azonenberg>
i really dont need more
<nathan7>
well give it to me
<nathan7>
I need some, damn't
<azonenberg>
And it's tech grade but i dont care, it's pure enough for my purposes
<azonenberg>
nathan7: could be a little tricky to get to you, dont you think? :p
<nathan7>
Yeah.
<bart416>
meh, pack it in sealed plastic bag
<bart416>
mail
<bart416>
lol
<nathan7>
true
<bart416>
I've shipped chemicals like that before lol
<bart416>
Like boric acid I've shipped that way several times
<bart416>
Though I guess customs might be less friendly about that
<nathan7>
mhm
<nathan7>
AH, I don't need to phosphorus
<nathan7>
*the phosphorus
<berndj>
azonenberg, if you ever feel you have too much KOH, use it to clean the drains!
<nathan7>
that's a waste man
<nathan7>
use NaOH for that
<berndj>
lol, yeah
<nathan7>
not trace-metal grade KOH
<azonenberg>
nathan7: I've actually used extra developer solution for doing that lol
<azonenberg>
and my koh isnt trace metal grade
<azonenberg>
i also dont know if its even possible
<azonenberg>
all the K+
<azonenberg>
or maybe it'd mean free of trace metals besides potassium
<nathan7>
heh
<nathan7>
yeah
<azonenberg>
nathan7: Thats why i dont have a waste jar for developer solution lol
<azonenberg>
The MSDS indicates that once the solvents are evaporated the developer itself is considered non-hazardous
<azonenberg>
the resist*
<azonenberg>
And i have a slow drain in one of the bathrooms
<nathan7>
oic
<azonenberg>
So i can get rid of waste while cleaning my drains in one go
<azonenberg>
though obvs if i was generating more than a few ml per week i'd do something else
<azonenberg>
The three main categories of waste i store due to lack of an easy way to permanently render them non-hazardous are
<azonenberg>
* used metal etchant (HCL : H2O2 : H2O plus Cu?Cl? and Cr?Cl?)
<azonenberg>
* used HF
<azonenberg>
* used solvents (mix of ethanol, methanol, acetone, isopropanol)
<azonenberg>
and i just take them down to the city household-waste disposal day every few months
<berndj>
for HF: can you add CaCl2?  to precipitate out fluorspar?
<azonenberg>
berndj: I've considered attempting that once i have a significant volume
<berndj>
might want to add pH-raising stuff too
<azonenberg>
But right now i have maybe 5 ml
<azonenberg>
i dont generate much of it
<azonenberg>
berndj: As of now i do not generate a significant amount of alkaline waste
<azonenberg>
the developer solution is very dilute and dispose legitimately for drain cleaning
<azonenberg>
The 30% KOH i'm still on my first batch
<berndj>
the solvents you mentioned - i'd just dispose of them in the next bbq fire :}
<azonenberg>
but i'll make a waste jar for that when it runs low
<azonenberg>
berndj: they have other stuff in them
<azonenberg>
whatever i cleaned using it
<berndj>
oh the "used" part of "used solvents"
<azonenberg>
Like i said, i have a free, safe, and legal way to dispose of it
<azonenberg>
So i just store until then
<azonenberg>
the volumes are minimal - each waste jar is 900 ml and none are more than around half full
<azonenberg>
used metal etch is a little more since i add both the contents of the beaker and the first rinse to the waste jar
<azonenberg>
HF even with rinsing the quantities involved are minimal (1ml per ten or fifteen etches)
<azonenberg>
the metal etch i dont store since H2O2 degrades
<azonenberg>
and i dont have light-tight storage for it
<azonenberg>
i dont reuse*
<azonenberg>
HF and KOH solutions i reuse until they show a visible decrease in etch rate
<azonenberg>
i've considered figuring out neutralization methods for the rest but its not really worth it
<berndj>
add NaOH to your HF, mix with loads of milled sand, fluorinated toothpaste!
<azonenberg>
if i had to pay to dispose of them i might consider ways to neutralize myself
<azonenberg>
I was considering CaCl2 for the HF if i generated a lot
<berndj>
speaking of etching solution, i need to figure out a way to store it between runs
<azonenberg>
and i'm told there are ways to precipitate metal chlorides out as well
<berndj>
so i don't end up with rusted tools
<azonenberg>
so i could theoretically neutralize my etching solution by doing that reaction, whatever it is
<azonenberg>
followed by buffering to neutral pH
<azonenberg>
But with under a liter of waste for the whole summer's work and collection day in a week? Not worth it
<berndj>
if you have a swimming pool you'll know all about precipitating stuff out
<berndj>
soda ash to get the calcium out, "alum powder" for Cu, Fe, and others
<azonenberg>
Interesting
<azonenberg>
I might try that at some point but like i said right now its not really worth doing
<berndj>
very few carbonates are soluble at non-acidic pH
<azonenberg>
i'll let the professionals handle it until and unless i start having to pay for disposal
<berndj>
is your Cu?Cl? pure Cu or mixed with Cr?
<azonenberg>
I used HCl : H2O2 to etch printed circuit boards (basically pure Cu) as well as my chips, which have a micron of copper over 5nm Cr in one etch
<azonenberg>
5nm * area of etch is a minimal volume
<azonenberg>
The same solution can be used to etch Al but my current batch of waste doesnt have any aluminum ions in it
<azonenberg>
last one did
<berndj>
hmm, does HCl + H2O2 attack Al?  does it get through the oxide layer?
<nathan7>
err
<nathan7>
Dilute NaOH would work well
<nathan7>
but HCl works too
<nathan7>
just HCl will do though
<nathan7>
the H2O2 is only to oxidise copper
<nathan7>
but anything below copper doesn't really need it
<berndj>
nathan7, yes re NaOH + Al, was just wondering about the Al2O3 layer (which NaOH attacks)
<azonenberg>
nathan7: Yeah, i usually use dilute HCl for aluminum
<azonenberg>
But it goes in the same waste jar
<azonenberg>
as it's still "acid waste containing transition metal chlorides"