<B0101> hi azonenberg
<azonenberg> hi
<B0101> I tried going to the wafer supplier...
<azonenberg> and?
<B0101> i found nothing with the name of Latech... untill i got back home
<azonenberg> ?
<B0101> and i found that i was at the correct building... wrong position...
<B0101> and their directory was not updated
<azonenberg> lol
<B0101> When i found out... my mind was thinking: "darn..."
<B0101> gonna be afk... bbl
<B0101> back
<Anarchos> hello
<azonenberg> hi
<Anarchos> azonenberg hi how are you ?
<azonenberg> good, you?
<Anarchos> i am fine too
<Anarchos> i am looking for standard cell libraries for Electric
<azonenberg> Never used it, sorry
<azonenberg> Most of our work at the moment is lower level than that
<azonenberg> process development etc
<azonenberg> i'm fighting yield issues in the lithography atm
<Anarchos> what are yield issues ?
<bart416> The amount of succesful attempts vs total amount of attempts
<Anarchos> ok
<azonenberg> for example, an array of continuous parallel lines
<Anarchos> i was looking for an irc channel about Electric or vlsi or cmos, this is the only one i found
<azonenberg> (evaporated copper on <100> Si
<azonenberg> and yeah, we are mostly on the DIY fab side of things
<azonenberg> if and when we get a working cmos process try your question again lol
<Anarchos> azonenberg sure :)
<azonenberg> but at the rate things are going (and considering i have a phd to work on and am not doing this full time or even close to it)
<azonenberg> it will be a while lol
<Anarchos> azonenberg ho nice scale on your jpeg :)
<Anarchos> what kind of mask do you use ?*
<azonenberg> Anarchos: The 5um process is still being debugged, the 20 is working a lot better
<azonenberg> laser printer on plastic transparency film lol
<azonenberg> reduced 10x or 40x (for the 20 and 5 micron processes respectively) by projection lithography
<azonenberg> nyanotechnology ;)
<azonenberg> this is, like the other one, evaporated copper on <100> silicon
<azonenberg> mag of this image is 100x
<azonenberg> The pixels blurring against each other were violating DRC by touching at corners
<Anarchos> azonenberg and how do you evaporate copper at home ? lol
<azonenberg> Anarchos: I wish i could lol
<azonenberg> i did that in a lab on campus and have been working with the results ever since
<azonenberg> at home
<azonenberg> its on the to-do list though
<azonenberg> i just need a bell jar, mechanical pump, diffusion pump, and variac
<azonenberg> the theory is trivially simple and you dont need really tight alignment tolerances etc
<Anarchos> azonenberg eh eh "do your sparc 64 VIIIfx at home " :)
<azonenberg> just reasonably deep vacuum
<azonenberg> But right now i have two or three wafers with evaporated metal films on them i've been gradualyl running experiments on
<azonenberg> And the current focus is actually mems, not cmos
<azonenberg> i want to build a comb drive
<azonenberg> http://i.imgur.com/CMaJN.jpg was a test of line edge roughness on the 20um process
<azonenberg> i want to do some SEM cross sections soon (benefits of knowing the matsci lab manager ;) )
<azonenberg> to measure edge profiles etc
<azonenberg> http://i.imgur.com/we2Mp.jpg was the best i've done so far for cross sectioning and optical imaging
<azonenberg> the copper is around 150um wide and 30 high lol
<Anarchos> so i will continue my quest of standard cells :)
<azonenberg> my 20um features in ~1um layers wont even show up at this mag
<azonenberg> much less provide useful slow values
<azonenberg> and yep, good luck
<swkhan> if i don't have a scale or a triple beam balance, how can i accurately (or at least precisely) measure out a certain mass of something?
<swkhan> i've been putting this on hold for a while. i want to make sodium sulfate, ultimately so i can mix it with copper sulfate and get electroplated copper. i'm not sure i have all the equipment yet but i want to see if i can make some of the stuff today at least
<bart416> Meh, use a kitchen scale
<bart416> 0.1g is precise enough for most things
<azonenberg> swkhan: I found a scale on ebay good to 1mg
<azonenberg> in graduation
<azonenberg> actual accuracy maybe +/- 2 or 3
<bart416> The issue with scales that go down to 1mg is that airflow and pressure will actually have a noticable affect
<bart416> You need to put a cover over it to get a good reading
<azonenberg> bart416: i've noticed lol
<XgF> Every 1mg scale I've worke dwith has had a glass surround
<azonenberg> breathe on it and it fluctuates by a decent amount
<azonenberg> this has a plastic cover
<azonenberg> its cheap, but is noticeably better accuracy than the 10mg i have
<bart416> XgF, we were fighting for the ones with the covers during the labs
<bart416> Except if it was something volatile that was hard to scoop up
<bart416> Cause the cover makes that rather hard :(
<azonenberg> bart416: lol
<azonenberg> use a micropipette and go by volume?
<XgF> :S we had covered 1mg scales back in sixth form
<bart416> XgF, the covers got blown off :P
<bart416> In miniature explosions
<azonenberg> lol
<bart416> Hence, some scales didn't have any covers left
<azonenberg> i imagine it wasnt healthy for the scale either
<azonenberg> anything that intense probably fried the load cell
<bart416> Weirdly enough after being calibrated again it doesn't really seem to have any effect :S
<azonenberg> o_O
<XgF> What? The scales i'm thinking of have a steel frame which is an extension of the case, with glass plates attached to the inside of the frame
<bart416> past a certain load it rests on a metal pad instead of transfering pressure to the load cell I guess
<bart416> never ever use one of them to weigh blackpowder XgF!
<XgF> Hah
<bart416> it doesn't just lift the lid
<bart416> it blows the glass or plastic out lol
<XgF> Why would you weigh BP? Weigh the constituent ingredients then mix
<azonenberg> Also, if it is spontaneously igniting you probably have ESD problems
<azonenberg> get better grounding
<XgF> Yeah. My BP has never blown up without me asking it to
<bart416> XgF, mine neither
<bart416> But some people managed it :S
<azonenberg> was this for a class project?
<bart416> Yes
<XgF> Back in college I once set fire to a desk...
<azonenberg> no fair, you get to play with explosives in class?
<bart416> Yes
<bart416> We also managed to crack a ceramic  table top btw
<azonenberg> how
<bart416> well, not we
<bart416> Another class did during the same experiment
<azonenberg> with BP?
<bart416> Somebody built a miniature rocket engine with a test tube somehow
<azonenberg> ...
<azonenberg> BP is a low explosive
<bart416> (with something more volatile than bp)
<azonenberg> it *should* not explode unless confined
<bart416> It managed to knock lose a piece of metal and take it along and smash into the table
<XgF> (We were heating some ethanol. Perhaps I was heating it too vigorously; it decided it would like to be on fire. When I was placing a gauze on top to remove the oxygen supply... I knocked over the flask...)
<azonenberg> lol
<bart416> lol XgF
<bart416> Also fun was "disolve this little block of marble and calculate how much carbon and calcium it contains"
<bart416> Oh was that one fun...
<bart416> Half the gas captured was actually our table disolving instead of the piece of marble
<XgF> snorts
<bart416> Something about not providing propper equipment
<bart416> lol
<XgF> I also remember a bung on a tube full of conc H2SO4 (I forget the name of that particular pecie of equipment :P) blowing out in my hand...
<bart416> Fun