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<kpcyrd>
ipfs add -r might be leaking memory somewhere. After adding about 50GB it reported 10GB of used ram. it peaked to 13GB once but never went below 9GB.
<kpcyrd>
(actual use, allocated was constant at 13.9GB)
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<achin>
check github, similar issues have been filed
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<whyrusleeping>
kpcyrd: yeah... i've seen that before. I need to look into it
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<achin>
interesting that i see very similar memory usage when adding a much smaller set of data
<achin>
dunno if that is a useful data point
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<pinbot>
now pinning /ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b?
<pinbot>
[host 2] failed to grab refs for /ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b?: Post http://[fcfe:eab4:e49c:940f:8b29:35a4:8ea8:b01a]:5001/api/v0/refs?arg=/ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b?&encoding=json&stream-channels=true&r=true&: trailer header without chunked transfer encoding
<pinbot>
[host 1] failed to grab refs for /ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b?: Post http://[fce3:c53b:c3c5:2f54:8bb0:b6d9:898e:f140]:5001/api/v0/refs?arg=/ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b?&encoding=json&stream-channels=true&r=true&: trailer header without chunked transfer encoding
<pinbot>
[host 0] failed to grab refs for /ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b?: Post http://[fc98:424c:b433:d7e2:7ee3:9541:73ff:2cdb]:5001/api/v0/refs?arg=/ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b?&encoding=json&stream-channels=true&r=true&: trailer header without chunked transfer encoding
<pinbot>
[host 6] failed to grab refs for /ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b?: Post http://[fc29:9fda:3b73:c1d2:9302:31e3:964c:144c]:5001/api/v0/refs?arg=/ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b?&r=true&encoding=json&stream-channels=true&: trailer header without chunked transfer encoding
<pinbot>
[host 4] failed to grab refs for /ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b?: Post http://[fc3d:9a4e:3c96:2fd2:1afa:18fe:8dd2:b602]:5001/api/v0/refs?arg=/ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b?&stream-channels=true&r=true&encoding=json&: trailer header without chunked transfer encoding
<pinbot>
[host 3] failed to grab refs for /ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b?: Post http://[fc4e:5427:3cd0:cc4c:4770:25bb:a682:d06c]:5001/api/v0/refs?arg=/ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b?&encoding=json&stream-channels=true&r=true&: trailer header without chunked transfer encoding
<pinbot>
[host 7] failed to grab refs for /ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b?: Post http://[fcdf:a296:afe3:7118:4135:cc0b:ff92:4585]:5001/api/v0/refs?arg=/ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b?&stream-channels=true&r=true&encoding=json&: trailer header without chunked transfer encoding
<pinbot>
[host 5] failed to grab refs for /ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b?: Post http://[fcd8:a4e5:3af7:557e:72e5:f9d1:a599:e329]:5001/api/v0/refs?arg=/ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b?&encoding=json&stream-channels=true&r=true&: trailer header without chunked transfer encoding
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] whyrusleeping closed pull request #1822: ipfs version 0.3.8 changelog and version bump (master...version-bump-0.3.8) http://git.io/vC3H8
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<deltahat>
hello? anybody home?
<whyrusleeping>
deltahat: sup
<whyrusleeping>
kpcyrd: pinbot has friends he pins for
<deltahat>
hi. i've been looking into IPNS.
<whyrusleeping>
me too
<deltahat>
each user has their own namespace, right?
<whyrusleeping>
yeap
<deltahat>
i'v been noodling about how to create a global shared namespace, like a shared git repo
<whyrusleeping>
we will have shared keys down the road a bit
<deltahat>
perhaps each user could could keep their own HEAD, but then users would have to somehow communicate between each other to exchange the most "recent" HEAD
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<deltahat>
how would you determine which shared key value is the the most recent?
<deltahat>
in the event of simultanious edits
<whyrusleeping>
right now? sequence numbers
<deltahat>
so if you and I submit a change at the same time, who would win?
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<deltahat>
wow...the aggregation discussion (notes/issues/40) is fantastic. i learned a lot just reading it and googling acronyms. :)
<whyrusleeping>
deltahat: haha, yeah. theres a ton of cool stuff going on there
<deltahat>
let me see if i understand this: mutable changes can be represented as conflict-free replicated data types, aggregated by a one or more decentralized aggregation nodes, which accept changes, process the change, and publish an updated IPFS node?
<whyrusleeping>
that would be one way of doing things, yes
<whyrusleeping>
(and is similar enough to the other ways)
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<deltahat>
if the central "server" fails, another can take its place, right?
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<deltahat>
all the data to process change is embeded in the IPFS network
<whyrusleeping>
yeah, its similar to bitcoin, how everyone in the world can arrive at the same conclusion about the state of things
<whyrusleeping>
(and ethereum)
<ion>
whyrusleeping: The !pin failed because of the question mark in the end.
<pinbot>
now pinning /ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b
<pinbot>
[host 7] failed to grab refs for /ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b: Post http://[fcdf:a296:afe3:7118:4135:cc0b:ff92:4585]:5001/api/v0/refs?arg=/ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b&r=true&encoding=json&stream-channels=true&: trailer header without chunked transfer encoding
<pinbot>
[host 4] failed to grab refs for /ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b: Post http://[fc3d:9a4e:3c96:2fd2:1afa:18fe:8dd2:b602]:5001/api/v0/refs?arg=/ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b&encoding=json&stream-channels=true&r=true&: trailer header without chunked transfer encoding
<pinbot>
[host 1] failed to grab refs for /ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b: Post http://[fce3:c53b:c3c5:2f54:8bb0:b6d9:898e:f140]:5001/api/v0/refs?arg=/ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b&encoding=json&stream-channels=true&r=true&: trailer header without chunked transfer encoding
<pinbot>
[host 2] failed to grab refs for /ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b: Post http://[fcfe:eab4:e49c:940f:8b29:35a4:8ea8:b01a]:5001/api/v0/refs?arg=/ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b&encoding=json&stream-channels=true&r=true&: trailer header without chunked transfer encoding
<pinbot>
[host 0] failed to grab refs for /ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b: Post http://[fc98:424c:b433:d7e2:7ee3:9541:73ff:2cdb]:5001/api/v0/refs?arg=/ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b&encoding=json&stream-channels=true&r=true&: trailer header without chunked transfer encoding
<pinbot>
[host 6] failed to grab refs for /ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b: Post http://[fc29:9fda:3b73:c1d2:9302:31e3:964c:144c]:5001/api/v0/refs?arg=/ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b&encoding=json&stream-channels=true&r=true&: trailer header without chunked transfer encoding
<pinbot>
[host 5] failed to grab refs for /ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b: Post http://[fcd8:a4e5:3af7:557e:72e5:f9d1:a599:e329]:5001/api/v0/refs?arg=/ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b&encoding=json&stream-channels=true&r=true&: trailer header without chunked transfer encoding
<pinbot>
[host 3] failed to grab refs for /ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b: Post http://[fc4e:5427:3cd0:cc4c:4770:25bb:a682:d06c]:5001/api/v0/refs?arg=/ipfs/QmTtqKeVpgQ73KbeoaaomvLoYMP7XKemhTgPNjasWjfh9b&encoding=json&stream-channels=true&r=true&: trailer header without chunked transfer encoding
<whyrusleeping>
yeah, the issue is pinbot hasnt been update with the latest code and the gateways have
<whyrusleeping>
so their api versions differ
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<whyrusleeping>
i have the auth stuff setup on my desktop, but i dont want to go over there right now
<whyrusleeping>
its so far away...
<ion>
Hehe
<whyrusleeping>
the couch is too comfy
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<deltahat>
bitcoin incentivises aggregators by offering them monitary reward. what would incentivize IPFS protocol aggregators? filecoin?
<whyrusleeping>
well, that depends on what is being aggregated
<whyrusleeping>
you only need things to be aggregated if youre running some sort of service
<deltahat>
like a decentralized message board, for example
<whyrusleeping>
incentive could be some level of status on the message board
<whyrusleeping>
karma, if you will
<deltahat>
sure, but would each IPFS application need to implement its own reward system for participating in aggregation?
<whyrusleeping>
ipfs itself really doesnt need aggregation
<whyrusleeping>
things built on top might
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<whyrusleeping>
theres nothing really that the protocol itself could do to incentivize aggregation
<whyrusleeping>
and i'm not a huge fan of cryptocoins
<whyrusleeping>
gonna steer clear of that mess
<deltahat>
so agreeing on a global HEAD is really outside the scope of IPFS itselfs
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<whyrusleeping>
(for ipfs, filecoin is a different discussion)
<whyrusleeping>
global HEAD for what?
<whyrusleeping>
that makes no sense in the context of just ipfs
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<deltahat>
just borrowing git parlance
<whyrusleeping>
oh, i understand what youre referencing
<whyrusleeping>
but i dont think it applies to the base layer of ipfs
<deltahat>
agreed. its an application protocol issue
<whyrusleeping>
but!
<whyrusleeping>
thats not to say we cant make it easy for applications to build such a reward system
<whyrusleeping>
and provide templates, and examples for how to easily do so
<ion>
What the Internet needs is a punishment system.
<whyrusleeping>
lol
<deltahat>
reddit
<deltahat>
perhaps a punishment system that extends into real life :)
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<deltahat>
if i represented a conversation thread as a merkle dag, i could add a comment by adding a new leaf, but that would change the hash of the root. i could publish that new hash under my own IPNS namespace, but others would have to find it somehow to see my addition
<deltahat>
is there any easy way for others to find my IPNS entry without them having a pre-existing relationship with me?
<deltahat>
or does that come back to application-level aggregation?
<whyrusleeping>
deltahat: we plan on implementing a pubsub system
<deltahat>
ooo :)
<whyrusleeping>
but that does go back to application aggregation for the most part
<whyrusleeping>
(to be aided by pubsub)
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<deltahat>
interestingly, i think a conversation tree may be a CRDT, assuming posts cannot be edited. all replies start as leaves to existing nodes, so merge just means adding up all the leaves. if each leaf includes the identity of the author, even identical posts cannot have the same hash and thus will not collide.
<whyrusleeping>
yeap! i think a reddit thread is pretty easily modeled as a crdt
<whyrusleeping>
all you need to say is 'my parents id is X'
<whyrusleeping>
and then you can also use crdts for voting
<deltahat>
i've been playing with that exact idea using a git repo
<deltahat>
IPFS is a logical extension of this
<deltahat>
each "subredit" would need its own aggretator node
<whyrusleeping>
build it! :D
<ion>
They will come
* whyrusleeping
looks at the ipfs we've built
* whyrusleeping
looks for ghost baseball players
<deltahat>
or, participants could add their own IPNS "HEAD" to the tree, which others could then "clone"
<deltahat>
although it would still need an aggregator to get a new subscriber's initial IPNS entry into the tree.
<deltahat>
(chickens and eggs)
<whyrusleeping>
lol
<whyrusleeping>
i'm gonna go get some sleep
<deltahat>
thanks for your help :)
<whyrusleeping>
no problem!
<deltahat>
IPFS is pretty amazing
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<davidar>
deltahat: the incentive is that, in order to have your changes merged (e.g. make a post to a forum), you need to participate in the aggregation process
<davidar>
otherwise nobody else will know you have stuff to aggregate
<davidar>
or you could pay someone else to aggregate your stuff i gues
<deltahat>
what if i aggregated on pull? i know a few peers, and pull their HEADs into mine, merging trees. then i publish my updated HEAD for others to do the same.
<deltahat>
if we all do this, the network is eventually consistent - for a suficent "eventually"
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<davidar>
i think that's the basic idea of CRDTs, yeah
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<davidar>
or at least, that's pretty much how I picture it working ;)
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<deltahat>
the only part i haven't solved is how a new user gets themselves into the the network. how do they advertise their existence to the first peer?
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<davidar>
i.e. the same way you advertise files over ipfs
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<deltahat>
davidar: so each participant in a forum would advertize an intentionally identical block, thus making themselves discoverable?
<deltahat>
peers could then iterate over all the block providers, using IPNS to dereference each remote "HEAD" of the conversation tree. since conversation trees are CRDTs, all remote HEADs that differ from the local HEAD can be safely merged into the local tree - IPFS will naturally de-duplicate the universe of conversation trees. a new merkle-tree HEAD is computed after the merges are complete and the
<deltahat>
cycle begins again.
<deltahat>
this might just work :)
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<deltahat>
if the whole thing were written as a javascript single page application it could even be hosted in IPFS - a self-contained, completely decentralized, globally threaded message board
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<davidar>
deltahat: yup :)
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<davidar>
as well as not-js for people running their own daemons ;)
<VictorBjelkholm>
locusf, good suggestion, I'll add a issue about it
<VictorBjelkholm>
davidar, hah, maybe. Probably not. Haskell is not my strong side, which markup.rocks seems to rely on
<davidar>
VictorBjelkholm (IRC): yeah, but it's mostly a matter of swapping out the Dropbox JS library (I can do the Haskell stuff if someone else can do the JS stuff ;)
<davidar>
a dropin replacement for the Dropbox JS library would be pretty handy in general too
<VictorBjelkholm>
davidar, oh, I see. Well, when node-ipfs is usable, things like this will be easy as hell. Right now, you'll need a daemon somewhere to talk to. Not sure how we can design dropin replacement libraries when we still need a daemon to run on the backend
<VictorBjelkholm>
I can give it a shot but right now I'm swamped with a lot of shit from work. IPFSBin was a 5 hour hack to at least ship something from this weekends adventures with ipfs
<davidar>
VictorBjelkholm (IRC): well, a dropin for some fixed backend daemon, until node-ipfs happens
<davidar>
of course, no rush. ipfsbin is awesome! :)
<VictorBjelkholm>
davidar, quick, maybe retarted thought, what if we could have a public daemon in the meantime? Put it at daemon.ipfs.io and everyone can upload files directly from browser via it
<VictorBjelkholm>
not sure what the security implications would be of that
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<davidar>
VictorBjelkholm (IRC): I know there has been some talk about opening up a writeable API on ipfs.io with appropriate security restrictions
<VictorBjelkholm>
yeah, that would make these things a breeze to implement
<davidar>
not sure if there's an issue to track it yet...
<VictorBjelkholm>
Ooh, cool. Right now, I think for most web developers figuring out how to run daemon + use dropin library is too much. Should be just the latter and people would switch in a heartbeat
<VictorBjelkholm>
davidar, the feature is already there, it's what the node-ipfs-api uses
<davidar>
VictorBjelkholm (IRC): yeah, but it needs to be in the gateway to be publicly accessible
<davidar>
node-ipfs-api uses the API server, no?
<davidar>
(different ports)
<VictorBjelkholm>
oh, now I see. Didn't see gateway was mentioned. Got confused because the repo is go-ipfs and I would expect the gateway to be under a different name
<VictorBjelkholm>
yes, you're right
<VictorBjelkholm>
seems to come along nicely. Watching a waiting for that, then we can look into a dropbox.js dropin
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<davidar>
VictorBjelkholm (IRC): yay :)
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<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] chriscool created t0060-alternative-nc-fix (+1 new commit): http://git.io/vWU60
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/t0060-alternative-nc-fix c424b4d Christian Couder: t0060: fail if no nc...
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<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] chriscool opened pull request #1868: t0060: fail if no nc (master...t0060-alternative-nc-fix) http://git.io/vWU6p
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<locusf>
is rest-api doable over ipfs?
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<VictorBjelkholm>
locusf, what you mean?
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<VictorBjelkholm>
You can have your rest api interact with ipfs for sure
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<locusf>
but doesn't posting data over it change the hash that represents it, or does that happend only to files?
<VictorBjelkholm>
yeah, hence we have ipns, a static hash to points to whatever you tells it to. So if IPNS A points to hash B, but you now have a new version of B, called C, you point A to C instead
<locusf>
we got this APIOps thing going on at least in Finland so I was thinking that beause the actual endpoints are so fragile, ipfs could help
<VictorBjelkholm>
other people refer to you as A, so they get the new file once it's updated
<locusf>
davidar: you know what, I'm gonna do the Babelian protocol, just to see if it can be done, regardless if it makes sense or not, to just study the internals of ipfs for it and for fun :)
<davidar>
locusf: sure thing, I assumed you were just doing it for fun in the first place :)
<locusf>
davidar: hehe okay :)
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<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] chriscool created test-commands-flags (+1 new commit): http://git.io/vWkvw
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/test-commands-flags 8a3bf95 Christian Couder: t0010: add tests for 'ipfs commands --flags'...
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<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] chriscool opened pull request #1871: t0010: add tests for 'ipfs commands --flags' (master...test-commands-flags) http://git.io/vWkfj
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<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] chriscool created split-long-short-options (+11 new commits): http://git.io/vWkUv
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/split-long-short-options 225fe24 Christian Couder: option: split names into short and long...
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/split-long-short-options abad567 Christian Couder: t0010: add tests for 'ipfs commands --flags'...
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/split-long-short-options b46d9e8 Christian Couder: command: add AddOption()...
<VictorBjelkholm>
which suitably is the source for node-ipfs-api :)
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<cryptix>
VictorBjelkholm: would be nice to have ipfsbin.xyz as /ipns/ipfsbin.xyz/#... similar to the markdown renderer from https://ipfs.io/docs/examples/
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<VictorBjelkholm>
cryptix, hm, yeah, looks interesting for sure... Problem is that the frontend needs to connect to a daemon somewhere
<VictorBjelkholm>
there is a server right now
<VictorBjelkholm>
but would like it to run fully in the frontend once either 1) node-ipfs can run in the browser completely or 2) there is a public daemon people can use
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<VictorBjelkholm>
anyone running a commercial service yet where I can pay to get content pinned?
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<achin>
maybe mail whyrusleeping a nice bag of coffee to bribe him to pin it on the ipfs solar system machines
<VictorBjelkholm>
Hah, can I send him 10 bags of coffee to expose an api for pinning too?!
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<achin>
victorbjelkholm: what might the pricing model look like?
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<VictorBjelkholm>
not sure, charge based on network traffic and storage I guess
<VictorBjelkholm>
thinking about if that doesn't already exists and no one is working on that currently, maybe I have something exciting to work on....
<VictorBjelkholm>
dignifiedquire, yeah, seems in the end that the shellscript I created instead of concurrently only fixed it in circleci
<dignifiedquire>
victorbjelkholm: lol
<VictorBjelkholm>
but looking at the logs from travis, seems like npm install half-fails. A lot of binaries is missing from travis /node_modules/.bin compared to my local install
<VictorBjelkholm>
with everything listen from inside node_modules
<VictorBjelkholm>
might help you debug
<VictorBjelkholm>
starts at line 1460
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<dignifiedquire>
thanks, I like ipfsbin :)
<dignifiedquire>
maybe it would be possible to port jsbin onto ipfs as a next step it being opensource and all
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<VictorBjelkholm>
dignifiedquire, yeah, good idea but I think it would be better way around to focus on a application that runs completely in the browser...
<VictorBjelkholm>
but, maybe it's better to port existing software like jsbin, even if they need a server. I just like the whole serverless idea a lot better :)
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<ion>
“<victorbjelkholm> anyone running a commercial service yet where I can pay to get content pinned?” Filecoin in the future. :-P
<VictorBjelkholm>
ion, I know! But still, someone have to build a service around filecoin, right? Filecoin is not that service, as I understand. Just the thing behind the service
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<ogd>
filecoin is people
<ogd>
just like soylent green
<VictorBjelkholm>
True. You can buy Filecoin === You can buy people
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<dignifiedquire>
victorbjelkholm: I’m an idition go-ipfs was not a direct depency of the api that’s why the bin wasn’t there as the ci envs run npm@2 and not npm@3 which flattens the dependency structure
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<VictorBjelkholm>
(facepalm)
<VictorBjelkholm>
dignifiedquire, good catch
<dignifiedquire>
much better error now :)
<dignifiedquire>
[0] Initializing daemon...
<dignifiedquire>
[0] Error: no ipfs repo found in /home/travis/.ipfs.
<dignifiedquire>
[0] please run: ipfs init
<dignifiedquire>
[0] ./node_modules/.bin/ipfs daemon exited with code 1
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<achin>
oh yeah, i forgot about filecoin!
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<achin>
what's the hash at the top of the filecoin paper?
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<mungojelly>
i tried out most of the examples, it works really well, i'm impressed
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<mungojelly>
there's no content on it worth speaking of though? i know it says "alpha" all over the place but seeing as it works fine i'd think we'd be trying it out with some content
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<mungojelly>
since hash based things like this are basically immutable there's always an idea that you have to layer some mutation on it to replicate the normal mutable blog pattern
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<mungojelly>
but i've also thought it would make sense just to accept the mutability and create bloglike or wikilike things that are just snapshots that point back to previous work
<mungojelly>
like you'd make something with links to cool stuff, and then next make another link to more cool stuff including a link to the first thing
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<ion>
IPFS's mutability later is called IPNS.
<ion>
See the ipfs/archives issues for content that is already on IPFS.
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<achin>
s/later/layer/ ?
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<achin>
neat: "The cost and time required to break 512-bit RSA encryption keys has plummeted to an all-time low of just $75 and four hours"
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<whyrusleeping>
achin: interesting, what changed?
<whyrusleeping>
mungojelly: there is a lot of content around, search google for things and search under the ipfs.io domain
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<achin>
whyrusleeping: i think just the never ending downward pressure on EC2 prices (and the corresponing increase in IPS-per-dollar)
<whyrusleeping>
ah, you made it sound like it was a sudden thing
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<whyrusleeping>
like 'nvidia released a new gpu that was made specifically to factor large numbers'
<achin>
i was just quoting an ars technica article. they said that in march it was $100 and seven hours, so i guess someone just tried it again half a year later and noticed for the first time that it's cheaper and faster
<achin>
i'm not sure that 15 years ago we could have really understood how fast computers are these days
<whyrusleeping>
no, its kinda nuts
<whyrusleeping>
like, intels processors havent really gone up much in clock speed
<whyrusleeping>
but they still keep getting faster despite that
<achin>
sure we probably said things like "oh yeah, computers will be really really fast", but to actually *understand* how fast they are.
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<achin>
just like we, today, really can't understand how fast things will be in another 15 years
<whyrusleeping>
yeah, i honestly cant imagine them getting too much faster
<whyrusleeping>
but i know it will happen
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<achin>
when i was in high school (about 12 years ago), i was in a computer graphics class (bryce 3d!). we were running on machines that where clocked at either 677mhz or maybe even 1000mhz
<ion>
achin: Yeah, thanks, it was a swipe typo. :-)
<achin>
i remember networking a bunch of them together to get faster renders. if i had something like ec2 back then? oh man, i wouldn't have believed it
<achin>
(the computer i cary around in my pocket is clocked faster than those machines, and has more real-world performance that those machines. and it sits in my pocket and dings at me when someone shares a funny cat picture)
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<whyrusleeping>
lol
<ion>
And the cloud is watching where you are and listening to what you say.
<achin>
if you have an anroid phone, you can say "ok google" to active the voice-recogniztion system. google keeps recordings of all of these utterances (i assume to improve the recognition algorithm), and you can listen to them. to hear dozens and dozens of recordings of yourself saying "ok google" is funny, creepy, and weird
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<ion>
Hehe. I actually have turned the “ok google” functionality off, but i am letting Google have a huge amount of other information about me.
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<achin>
it's sometimes useful while driving
<achin>
but only for simple things like "directions home", but is mostly useless
<achin>
personal-assistant-AI has a *long* way to go
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<whyrusleeping>
achin: i use it for setting reminders and alarms
<whyrusleeping>
and starting music
<mungojelly>
the information from my phone is almost entirely useless to me, it seems to me the problem is that there's no apparent cost to an app of sending an alert and nobody filtering or controlling them at all, just trading floor level noisiness
<whyrusleeping>
you can tweak which apps are allowed to send notifications
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<whyrusleeping>
android m's priority notification settings are pretty decent
<mungojelly>
i've been thinking about how we can make systems that actually fit within resource constraints, not just disk i/o etc but also limits of our attention & etc
<mungojelly>
i keep coming back to monetary systems but also i have an intuition there could be something better that i don't know how to think of it
<achin>
whyrusleeping: i was listening to a song via spotify and i asked "ok google, what song is this". it then paused the music and turned on the microphone to listen to what music it could recognize
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<whyrusleeping>
achin: lol
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<mungojelly>
this bitswap protocol has some sort of tit-for-tat or something to stabilize it?
<whyrusleeping>
mungojelly: yeah, but right now its set to be permissive, so it doesnt choke or throttle peers
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<mungojelly>
is it basically just the same as the rules in bittorrent?
<mungojelly>
do you know any other peer cooperation protocols like that?
<whyrusleeping>
give the paper a quick readover, its similar
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<mungojelly>
the paper for ipfs?
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<mungojelly>
"Toward The Permanent Web (DRAFT 1)"?
<mungojelly>
yeah it's like an imgur right? i was there earlier :)
<giodamelio>
pretty much
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<mungojelly>
i just thought it'd be easy to make something that makes random pictures and links to them
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<mungojelly>
maybe we could start having streams of things, every time one program puts something out another program changes it and feeds it back out as another stream for other things to consume
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<ion>
Sounds reminiscent of some of the work on CRDTs.
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<daviddias>
oh, I see. thanks whyrusleeping
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<stoopkid>
so, i'm experimenting with IPFS, and i'd like to make something like a distributed wiki application + data-store, but this is my first venture into distributed systems, and there are some things i'm unsure about how to handle properly in the IPFS framework
<bsm1175321>
Can anyone point me to docs as to how IPFS replicates data (if at all?)
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<achin>
the paper and the gettingstarted/examples are your best bet. IPFS replicates data when either 1) you download data and keep a copy cached locally or 2) you pin something, which just means your cached copy is never deleted
<bsm1175321>
So there is no automatic replication among ipfs servers?
<achin>
that's correct
<bsm1175321>
Interesting, I misunderstood.
<bsm1175321>
Are their plans to replicate/mirror popular content someday?
<achin>
so if you add something to your local ipfs node ("ipfs add foo.avi"), and then shut down your node, that content will be unavailable
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<achin>
i think the idea is that popular content will naturally be replicated across all nodes that request it
<bsm1175321>
Ah so if I request content from my local IPFS node, it will replicate it?
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<achin>
if you add something popular to IPFS, and i download it from you, i'll have a copy on my node. if i send that link to a friend, my friend can either download it from me or from you. once my friend has it, it'll be cached on their node
<achin>
and if the link is forwarded some more, there will now be 3 nodes that can provdie the content
<bsm1175321>
Where loading a link "link" = http://ipfs.io/<hash> is sufficient to cause more nodes to get it?
<achin>
my link i really just mean the hash
<bsm1175321>
ipfs.io is just a gateway, and won't interact with my node, I assume.
<achin>
if you load http://ipfs.io/ipfs/<hash> in your browser, then the IPFS gateway nodes will download and cache a copy
<bsm1175321>
I see. Thanks for entertaining my elementary questions.
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<achin>
right, if you want your local node to download/cache the data, you need to tell your own node to get the data. either with "ipfs get" or maybe http://localhost:8080/ipfs/<hash>
<mungojelly>
i'm learning too :)
<achin>
you could imagine a future when all web browsers include a built-in IPFS node, so that you could load a hash directly in firefox. this would cause it to be downloaded and cached to your local node
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<bsm1175321>
I'm thinking about ways to mirror and cache bitcoin data. So mirroring the data is important.
<bsm1175321>
The content-addressing of IPFS is pefect already... ;-)
<achin>
i don't mean to disuade you in anyway, but... don't bitcoin clients already mirror and cache bitcoin blockchain data?
<stoopkid>
achin: are there any browser plug-ins that already do this?
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<bsm1175321>
achin: They do. The goal is to optimize that and take some load off the bitcoin servers.
<achin>
stoopkid: i think there might be 1? i'm not sure though
<achin>
i'm not an expert in browser add-ons, but i am pretty sure this is something that would be well within the capabilities of an add-on
<nicolagreco>
@achin this is what I thought today - browsers will have a built-in daemon
<nicolagreco>
can someone explain to me a slide that was in a presentation on IPFS (is the one with the merkle dag in the middle)
<achin>
link?
<nicolagreco>
how can one run ipfs on bitcoin, I am confused
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<codehero>
i just read the conversation about ipfs replicating popular files, and i just had a realization
<codehero>
ipfs is the perfect platform for memes
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<stoopkid>
"all objects that hold the exact same
<stoopkid>
"
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<stoopkid>
oops: "all objects that hold the exact same content are equal, and only stored once"
<stoopkid>
so if i make a file, and you make a copy of that file, and we each put our files onto the ipfs DHT, then what happens?
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<mungojelly>
so we're going to want all our data in transparent trees as much as possible, so they can share as much as they can
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<mungojelly>
stoopkid: if they're exactly the same, they hash exactly the same, so they get the same hash
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<mungojelly>
if one computer asks another, hey, do you have hash QonecuACHU()H@($*H? the other will say, yes i do, saw something with that exact hash just the other day
<stoopkid>
so basically the file *is* getting stored twice (once by me, once by you) but the ipfs address will be the same?
<mungojelly>
it'll only be stored once by each node, it means, if you try to download the same thing you already have it'll just use the one it's got
<stoopkid>
ah once per node, i see
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<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] jbenet pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/vWLoI
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/master 27eece3 Juan Benet: Merge pull request #1835 from miolini/master...
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/master 4555085 Artem Andreenko: fix races in http cors...
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] jbenet deleted fix/mocknet-race at def4697: http://git.io/vWLoa
<demize>
I mean, the file extension is meaningless.
<mungojelly>
stoopkid: i just got here today but from what little i understand you can just change your seed peers to be nodes you control and then you're a private ipfs network
<demize>
(On any sane OS.)
<mungojelly>
demize: well it works but just for presentation i guess, so people know what the link goes to
<achin>
mungojelly: the ipfs gateway probably download the file and saw that it looked like a PNG file and so it served it with the correct content-type header
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<stoopkid>
mungojelly: so you're looking for something like 'virtual URLs' to add presentability to the IPFS links?
<mungojelly>
ipfs is very simple and seems to work great and i can't see anything wrong with it at all. how's the osx version?
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<whyrusleeping>
mungojelly: 'ipfs add -w <file>' will retain the file name
<achin>
(by wrapping it in a directory)
<mungojelly>
ok yay thanks
<mungojelly>
hasn't anyone linked to their music yet for instance? why's it so quiet here?
<achin>
music isn't always the best to share over ipfs, due to copyright requirements
<stoopkid>
does ipfs itself face any legal issue if people did do that?
<achin>
no, i don't think so. but node operators and gateway operators would need to take some care
<whyrusleeping>
if its shared over our public gateways
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<ion>
stoopkid: Only announcing certain content to certain peers and only letting them download it from you is planned but not implemented AFAIK.
<whyrusleeping>
we also ask that you follow the code of conduct in regards to copyrighted materiel
<mungojelly>
um well if the plan is just to hope no one links to anything copyrighted, that's a bad plan, but i just meant people linking up their own music
<mungojelly>
i can link to my album Noise Hermitage but you probably won't like it :)
<achin>
that said, an archive of groovy publicdomain/creativecommons music would be really cool!
<whyrusleeping>
yeah, if you are legally allowed to share it, then by all means
<stoopkid>
achin whyrusleeping: i see, and heh no worries from me, not in any of my plans; ion: i see, thank you
<sonatagreen>
/ipfs/QmUPgdm6CtPAtFb4N2W9RDhWH4Mm2dBrLoJ8hFpTk4uJET/ seems not to work, is that just me?
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<achin>
it loads for me, but i just see two buttons at the bottom ofthe page
<mungojelly>
yeah i'm not sure what it's supposed to do but i don't think it's doing it
<mungojelly>
i looked in the .js and there's a bunch of promising sounding things about following the mouse around, but no
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<stoopkid>
mungojelly: "ipfs is just all butter" heh, it really is, i've been working on this data-repo, i get it on my node like its nothing, and then i'm scouring the documentation like "now how do i make it distributed", and now i'm basically informed: "it already is distributed you just need more nodes hosting that content!" lol
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<achin>
it looks like this page is supposed to load data from the ipfs gateway, but the request it's making is not correct
<mungojelly>
if we can get this one thing working it dissolves so many problems and creates so many opportunities, this is great
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<stoopkid>
yea, thank you IPFS folks, you're making the future happen
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<whyrusleeping>
noffle: yeah, thats pretty much what i ended up with
<whyrusleeping>
although i dont know what the xF part is
<whyrusleeping>
i just have -vE
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<ion>
-x makes it require the expression to match the whole line; -F makes it a verbatim pattern without special characters.
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<whyrusleeping>
ah, makes sense
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<ianopolous2>
ion: I didn't say IPFS uses Bittorrent, just that it uses a bit torrent like protocol. Maybe I could have been clearer.
<ianopolous2>
ion: The central IPFS data structure, is a merkle dag, the same as in git. The hash used doesn't change the data structure. Also. IPNS is equivalent to git commits.
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<ianopolous2>
ion: :-) my bad. I should be careful with my phrasing.
<ianopolous2>
probably should remove it from the protocol hourglass diagram too
<victorbjelkholm>
Hm, quick question. Running my ifps daemon through a docker container on a digital ocean machine and I've added a file there, which I can fetch with ipfs cat perfectly from inside the machine. But when trying to fetch the same file (using the same ipfs command), it never gets the file. I've exposed port 4001, which as I understand should be enough, correct?
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<achin>
how many machines does "ipfs swarm peers" list on your docker ipfs nnode?
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<victorbjelkholm>
achin, now when I tried to run the command, I realize that ipfsd-ctl might not work as I understood it to be working...
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<victorbjelkholm>
root@a385a49ffb83:/usr/src/app/node_modules/ipfsd-ctl/node_modules/.bin# ./ipfs id
<rand_me>
oh great, now I see it too. Is few minutes a delay to be expected? How random is that?
<whyrusleeping>
rand_me: it all depends on the network connectivity you have
<NeoTeo>
I can't help but feel it's like the early days of Twitter where you could actually follow the main feed. Soon it'll be a blur.
<whyrusleeping>
if youre behind a nat, its gonna take a little longer for other peers to figure out how to get a connection to you
<rand_me>
I hope ipv6 will make things better (the Internet was not supposed to work like this). But I'm not very optimistic...
<rand_me>
Something else: is there already somebody working on the file sync (a la Dropbox) use case?
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<mungojelly>
wow i took some random keys from grepping handleAddProvider and sure enough they were PNGs of random stuff :o
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<NeoTeo>
rand_me Dropbox functionality requires some way to deal with different versions of the same file. IPFS has implicit versioning by virtue of the different hashes generated from changes in a file but it does not yet, afaik, have a way of linking hashes to their predecessors. Even finding out which hash is a parent of another requires some kind of CRDT which is only in the discussion phase at the moment...I think.
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<codehero>
unless you add the previous hash to the file
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<codehero>
btw. is there some way to list all objects/files on the local node?
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<codehero>
i doubt that i'm supposed to write down the hash of every file i add to ipfs
<daviddias>
whyrusleeping: lgierth do we have that machine ready?
<ion>
ipfs pin ls
<daviddias>
how to get access to it? :D
<codehero>
ion: ah. thank you :)
<ion>
That’s not all objects you have, only the ones you have pinned. Which sounds like what you were actually asking.
<victorbjelkholm>
achin, back again, host with daemon lists 32 peers, locally 101
<codehero>
ion: yeah. that's what i was asking
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<victorbjelkholm>
achin, nevermind, seems to be working fine
<codehero>
funny. ipfs mount can't find fusermount
<ion>
Install it.
<codehero>
it is installed
<codehero>
and i can run it just fine from zsh
<ion>
Was the daemon executed in an environment where fusermount is in PATH?
<codehero>
oh.. right
<codehero>
systemd
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<codehero>
it doesn't seem like a smart idea to add /usr/bin to the path
<codehero>
hrm
<stoopkid>
so does anybody know of any projects to render geo-coordinate-bound information stored in IPFS onto an interactive world-map? like historical data and such?
<stoopkid>
hmm, i was thinking something like *all* of the geo-coordinate-bound information that people want to make public, and i guess i should have mentioned beyond that, like IPFS-pedia basically
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<stoopkid>
i figure universities would host their public databases and other information resources, thereby directly certifying their endorsement of the information as well as providing part of the network capacity
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<stoopkid>
and it would all be accessible through basically an extension/merging of the interface that the wikimedia interfaces are
<stoopkid>
considering block-chain i figure that's how edits would be handled
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<stoopkid>
been planning something similar to this for a while and then i heard of decentralization and then IPFS, and IPFS basically is what i was planning, without the -pedia part, so i was wondering if there's any other projects already doing something like that, cause i don't want to duplicate any work
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