stebalien changed the topic of #ipfs to: Heads Up: To talk, you need to register your nick! Announcements: go-ipfs 0.4.18 and js-ipfs 0.34 are out! Get them from dist.ipfs.io and npm respectively! | Also: #libp2p #ipfs-cluster #filecoin #ipfs-dev | IPFS, the InterPlanetary FileSystem: https://github.com/ipfs/ipfs | Logs: https://view.matrix.org/room/!yhqiEdqNjyPbxtUjzm:matrix.org/ | Forums: https://discuss.ipfs.io | Code of Con
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<TUSF>
So has anyone been making use of go-ipfs's "p2p" subcommand? I was thinking it'd be an amusing idea to serve a website only accessible to clients that know to connect to my peer ID
<TUSF>
Something like `ipfs p2p listen "/x/https/" "/ip4/127.0.0.1/tcp/1234"
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<TUSF>
That way someone can connect to my site with `ipfs p2p forward "/x/https/" "/ip4/127.0.0.1/tcp/4567" "/ipfs/QmPeer"
<TUSF>
That way someone can connect to my site with `ipfs p2p forward "/x/https/" "/ip4/127.0.0.1/tcp/4567" "/ipfs/QmPeer"`
<TUSF>
(bah, no edit on Riot?)
<postables[m]1>
Djeturn: at the moment that won't work if i understand correctly http paths are not yet supported
<postables[m]1>
Djeturn: at the moment that won't work if i understand your idea correctly http paths are not yet supported
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<TUSF>
As far as I know, the only reason that wouldn't work is because there isn't an HTTP client that would know what to do with "/x/https/", right?
<TUSF>
I'm not sure that has anything to do with what I'm thinking?
<postables[m]1>
hmm maybe im misunderstanding then
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<TUSF>
My idea is just running a web server, and hooking it up to libp2p, with the `ipfs p2p listen` command.
<TUSF>
This would mean that IPFS PeerIDs would act as a kind of "DNS", with the website able to change locations without needing to update any DNS or use a web domain.
<TUSF>
Cause it would tie the website to a peer node, instead of a server or IP
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<TUSF>
It's kinda weird, and maybe counter to IPFS's goals as a whole, but I thought it was kinda neat, if not a tad inefficient.
<TUSF>
(or is it?)
<postables[m]1>
sounds interesting would go a ways to making hosting websites on ipfs more "ipfs-y"
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<TUSF>
I can't say there's really a lot of use-cases though. It would make for good load-balancing, if multiple servers are running the same IPFS node (and thus clients would pick which node of the same peer ID to pick), but I don't think IPFS really handles this kinda thing, and just connects to the first peer it finds.
<postables[m]1>
you probably wouldn't want to run the same ipfs node (same ipfs id) across more than one machine
<TUSF>
Probably not.
<TUSF>
Otherwise, the only real-world usecase I can think of for the idea is if the web server is susceptible to changing IPs, either because it's a personal site hosted from a laptop, or because it's… less than legitimate…
<lanzafame1>
Another use case is only exposing http services via libp2p ports to the internet. Ipfs cluster does this.
<TUSF>
Oh? What do you mean?
<lanzafame1>
So the cluster exposes both it's RPC API and http API on port 9096, the only way to hit the http API is to use the ipfs p2p command with the proxy address being a local port and then you can make curl requests against the local address and they get ferried across the libp2p connection
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<Mikaela>
That is a lovely nickname
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<Swedneck>
how does that work?
<Swedneck>
i mean, it'll have to go to facebooks servers in the end
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<iaaaan[m]>
It does! Messages get encrypted symmetrically by the app/extension. Cipher text gets sent to Facebook servers while the encryption key goes to deface-dht, a fork of js-libp2p-kad-dht which adds a layer of user verification (currently recaptcha but looking for alternatives at the moment) to prevent non-human actors from sweeping through the distributed database. All users who have installed Deface can read messages, while
<iaaaan[m]>
others can only see a garbled string of characters and a link to the app.
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<Swedneck>
so what exactly prevents facebook from using deface and reading everything?
<shoku[m]>
lol
<shoku[m]>
their integrity
<iaaaan[m]>
User verification / proof of work. The idea not being to provide bulletproof end-to-end encryption (not sure that would be realistic in the context of open, mainstream social media platforms) but 'soft encryption' that increases the cost of mass surveillance for as many users as possible
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<iaaaan[m]>
The goal is to make it impractical for Facebook or government agencies that collaborate with them to sweep through millions of messages at once. Now, if the FBI is specifically looking into you, Deface doesn't help: all they need is becoming your Facebook friend :)
<postables[m]1>
if the soft encryption is broken by becoming your facebook friend, its not all that unreasonable to break nor costly
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<iaaaan[m]>
Well that's where it becomes a matter of scale, isn't it? It's certainly more costly for ICE (for instance) to befriend everyone on Facebook (not sure how they would do that?) than making an API call to process immigrant messages as they do at the moment.
<postables[m]1>
bots
<postables[m]1>
and it's probably not much more work to modify their existing tools to do the same
<iaaaan[m]>
I definitely agree it's a cat and mouse game.
<postables[m]1>
if there was some layer of authorization to decrypt the messages beyond simply befriending someone, it would probably be a lot more unfeasible to break th eencryption
<postables[m]1>
but if the way to break the encryption is really as simple as befriending someone, then this is effectively putting a piece of scotch tape over your data
<iaaaan[m]>
Well, befriending + user verification. So again I'd argue it's a matter of scale
<postables[m]1>
i would probably do some kind of per-user authorization as well as the befriending
<rialtate[m]>
I wouldn't be surprised if posting encrypted status messages is a strictly enforced policy violation. It would be fun to use steno pics and HMM text seeded with standard crypto though
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<iaaaan[m]>
I appreciate the feedback! Definitely something I'll consider. But I'm afraid per-user authorization implies a lot of user experience friction when it comes to casual facebook conversations, and users might as well go back to Signal or E2E chatrooms. I think there's definitely an untapped use-case for better-than-nothing protection when it comes to open conversations.
<iaaaan[m]>
@rialtate Yes! I'm definitely looking into steno pics! Very excited about that. Regarding the terms of service and legal implications the project falls in a gray area and we're looking into it with lawyers.
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<iaaaan[m]>
Lawyers I have talked to are excited about exploring how this fares under CFAA, especially in relation to web scraping, which is a somewhat similar issue.
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<postables[m]1>
hypothetical scenario:
<postables[m]1>
someone calls my pinning service to upload data to IPFS that is ransomware. Running `ipfs add` will that do anything which would trigger the ransomware to lock all the data on my drives?
<shoku[m]>
there's one way to find out
<postables[m]>
lol
<postables[m]>
i suppose thats possible
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<TUSF>
Unless there's some exploit in IPFS's datastore?
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<TUSF>
Because the data should be broken up into meaningless (at least meaningless to your computer) blocks of data without any ability to execute.
<postables[m]1>
well before it gets to that you need to add the file and read through its contents
<postables[m]1>
so thats where i think the exploit could happen
<TUSF>
Unless there's some kind of exploit in IPFS we don't know about
<TUSF>
Want to be our scapegoat and find out?
<postables[m]1>
nope
<postables[m]1>
:P
<postables[m]1>
only if i cna ssh into your laptop
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<TUSF>
Sure, but I don't have an SSH daemon or w.e on here :P
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<Kolonka[m]>
so what exactly prevents facebook from using deface and reading everything?
<Kolonka[m]>
slight cost / effort at a scale really does go a long way, iaaaan makes a good point
<Kolonka[m]>
removing one piece of scotch tape is trivial
<Kolonka[m]>
removing several million a day is another issue
<Kolonka[m]>
to quote an individual who worked for companies like this, back in 2015
<Kolonka[m]>
"CAPTCHA ensures only those who can afford massive human farms and sophisticated robots can shape a narrative"
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<TUSF>
>can afford massive human farms and sophisticated robots
<TUSF>
So Google and other tech-giants?
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<Kolonka[m]>
yes
<Kolonka[m]>
but their pockets aren't quite limitless
<Kolonka[m]>
and they can only hire so many people for so much work
<Kolonka[m]>
moderation efforts go up drastically every time you force a pair of human eyes upon something
<TUSF>
Well, they do run reCAPTCHA, so they kinda have most of what they'd need already there.
<Kolonka[m]>
and in a funny bout of cosmic irony, it's automated filtering (among other things) that people are now citing for moving away
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<Kolonka[m]>
kind of like how netflix exclusives are making people cancel their subscriptions and choose to pirate
<TUSF>
lol
<Kolonka[m]>
silicon valley is in a few big catch 22s
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<Kolonka[m]>
(I'm here to throw in reagents and eat popcorn)
<TUSF>
Well, I still see reCAPTCHA pretty much everywhere I go
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<TUSF>
Far as I can tell, it's still the "go-to" CAPTCHA service.
<TUSF>
So if Google decided to be genuinely malicious (and not just the usual "big company forgets about tiny ants underfoot" thing that normally happens) it could totally "shape the narrative", as the quoted commenter said.
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<Kolonka[m]>
man my matrix connection is being sketchy right now
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<Kolonka[m]>
well captcha isn't the only example
<Kolonka[m]>
steg that requires images or context that is necessary for humans to derive are very good ones too
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<Kolonka[m]>
and in the case of iaaaan's project, some slight proof-of-work that couldn't be accomplished through just running a js script would definitely complicate things
<Kolonka[m]>
or at the very least, stretch out a budget and/or staff