stebalien changed the topic of #ipfs to: Heads Up: To talk, you need to register your nick! Announcements: go-ipfs 0.4.22 and js-ipfs 0.35 are out! Get them from dist.ipfs.io and npm respectively! | Also: #libp2p #ipfs-cluster #filecoin #ipfs-dev | IPFS, the InterPlanetary FileSystem: https://github.com/ipfs/ipfs | Logs: https://view.matrix.org/room/!yhqiEdqNjyPbxtUjzm:matrix.org/ | Forums: https://discuss.ipfs.io | Code of
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<dognosewhiskers>
Hmm!
<dognosewhiskers>
Surprising amount of users in here... but it could be misleading.
<dognosewhiskers>
I am on a great journey, trying out and discussing every single P2P webhosting/decentralized web project in existence.
<dognosewhiskers>
One thing that confuses me about IPFS and which is not immediately clear is this: once you run the CLI version, does that enable you to use "any browser" to go to something like http://127.0.0.1:1234/whatever?
<dognosewhiskers>
Or does it use a special protocol like dat://?
<dognosewhiskers>
(Which requires a custom browser to read the pages.)
<dognosewhiskers>
I'm confused as to what exactly the "desktop version" of IPFS *is*.
<dognosewhiskers>
Is it just the CLI server hidden away + a Chrome-based browser?
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<Mikaela>
dognosewhiskers, I think you are looking for the browser extension IPFS Companion which can rewrite IPFS gateway links to your local IPFS gateway
<Mikaela>
and I think IPFS Desktop is a prettier interface for the local IPFS node than just go-ipfs directly on terminal
<dognosewhiskers>
... :S
<dognosewhiskers>
Definitely not looking for any browser extensions...
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<dognosewhiskers>
It's a double nightmare to get people to first download and install this "sketchy" (according to them) IPFS thing that runs on the command line, *and* on top of that also make them install a browser extension.
<dognosewhiskers>
But I take it that means it only has ipfs:// URLs? I don't really get why they would do that.
<dognosewhiskers>
Both Dat and IPFS seem to go for this whereas ZeroNet has the http://127.0.0.1/ links...
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<ShokuninDiscord[>
Reminder to cancel everything you're doing and come to the IPFS SF meetup in 2 hours!
<ShokuninDiscord[>
As Dietrich says, you can't speel IPFS without SF
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<deltab>
dognosewhiskers: the problem is that IPFS, Dat, etc. work in a way that's unlike how the mainstream browsers see the world: they want to refer to some particular data, regardless of where it's stored
<deltab>
whereas browsers and other http clients start by connecting to a specific computer, named in the URL, and asking it for data
<dognosewhiskers>
Have I understood things correctly if I claim the following? 1. User downloads IPFS onto their desktop PC. 2. They extract/install it and run a command similar to "ipfs --host-this="/some/dir/path/containing/an/index.html"'. 3. They open their normal browser on the same computer and go to http://127.0.0.1:1234/somehashgivenbythecliapplication/ 4. They see a HTML page saying "Hello".
<dognosewhiskers>
5. User gives the same URL to any other IPFS user and they also see "Hello".
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<deltab>
one moment: dealing with disk problem
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<deltab>
mostly, though the person receiving the URL would also have to have an ipfs daemon installed and running
<deltab>
oh, you said ipfs user, okay
<deltab>
they would have to be using the same IP address and port
<deltab>
or change the ULR to match their own setup
<dognosewhiskers>
"they would have to be using the same IP address and port"
<dognosewhiskers>
??
<deltab>
because browsers need to be told which server to connect to, even though that isn't needed by ipfs
<deltab>
maybe my ipfs daemon is running on 192.168.0.100:8001, serving my whole home network
<deltab>
so URLs that have 127.0.0.1:1234 won't work for me
<deltab>
that's why I'd want a browser extension to intercept it and rewrite the url, so that the browser connects to my local ipfs daemon
<dognosewhiskers>
Hmm...
<dognosewhiskers>
Yes, that is gonna cause problems...
<dognosewhiskers>
There's no immediate, obvious thought in my head to fix that.
<dognosewhiskers>
Other than the dreaded browser extensions which is a nightmare to attempt to convince users to install.
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<dognosewhiskers>
I hate them myself, so how could I expect anyone else to install them?
<deltab>
alternatively you make urls that don't include a server, but then the browsers won't understand those either
<dognosewhiskers>
This is actually an unexpected problem...
<dognosewhiskers>
Of course, the http://127.0... blabla URLs are not supposed to be a "permanent solution".
<deltab>
it's a chicken-and-egg problem: ipfs can't make reliable links without browser support, but browsers don't want to add support for something with little use
<dognosewhiskers>
Maybe force all users of IPFS to host it on 127.0.0.1 and always use the same port?
<deltab>
wouldn't work on my phone
<deltab>
and even if you did make it work, there's still a divide between those with ipfs and those without, for whom the links just give a generic error message about being unable to connect
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<dognosewhiskers>
Right... It would not be fun to run separate IPFS clients/servers/whatever-one-should-call-them on each device...
<dognosewhiskers>
Even though I deeply despise those surveillance devices ("phones"), I'm forced to take them into account...
<dognosewhiskers>
And yes, naturally, non-IPFS-having users will be left scratching their head in a futile attempt to figure out what's going on.
<dognosewhiskers>
Browsers encounting an ipfs:// URL will at least tell them it doesn't understand the protocol...
<dognosewhiskers>
*encountering
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<deltab>
right, another reason why ipfs:// urls would be preferable
<deltab>
but at present the support in most browsers is lacking
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<deltab>
there is another approach, which is using ipfs internally within a website: you visit the site as normal, and the browser runs a script that opens websocket or webrtc connections to other browsers, and talks ipfs over the connections
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<deltab>
that can work, and some sites are using it now (archive.org, peertube), but you still need those centralized sites, and there's overhead and restrictions imposed by the browser
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<deltab>
oh, peertube is using webtorrent
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<dognosewhiskers>
I don't understand that last thing.
<dognosewhiskers>
What would be the point of using IPFS like that?
<dognosewhiskers>
I'm trying to escape from the terror of being 100% dependent on some horribly incompetent and evil company (that's true for both micro companies and mega corporations in my vast experience).
<dognosewhiskers>
Not to mention paying $7 at a minimum per month with Bitcoin forever to keep up some HTML pages.
<dognosewhiskers>
Not to mention the whole nightmare with domains in the DNS system.
<deltab>
reduce the traffic to your server by transferring the bluky data between clients
<deltab>
bulky
<dognosewhiskers>
I guess, but if I had a centralized site already, there wouldn't be a reason for me to be so interested in P2P webhosting/decentralized web.
<dognosewhiskers>
(It's also annoying that there's no standard term to use to refer to these things.)
<dognosewhiskers>
"P2PWeb"?
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<dognosewhiskers>
Question: https://docs.ipfs.io/introduction/usage/ <-- Is the "installing from a prebuilt package" hyperlink really supposed to open that text document with one line of cryptic code?
<dognosewhiskers>
https://dist.ipfs.io/#go-ipfs <-- Some feedback on this: While *I* understand it, and likely other "technology experts", it'll confuse the average person beyond help.
<dognosewhiskers>
Currently running "ipfs.exe daemon" and going to http://localhost:8080/ in my browser shows a "404 page not found" (literally -- oddly). No directory was created that I can see. Where do I put my files?
<dognosewhiskers>
The instructions were confusing to say the least.