stebalien changed the topic of #ipfs to: Heads Up: To talk, you need to register your nick! Announcements: go-ipfs 0.4.22 and js-ipfs 0.35 are out! Get them from dist.ipfs.io and npm respectively! | Also: #libp2p #ipfs-cluster #filecoin #ipfs-dev | IPFS, the InterPlanetary FileSystem: https://github.com/ipfs/ipfs | Logs: https://view.matrix.org/room/!yhqiEdqNjyPbxtUjzm:matrix.org/ | Forums: https://discuss.ipfs.io | Code of
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<dognosewhiskers> Nevermind. Found the separate article.
<dognosewhiskers> deltab: http://localhost:8080/ipfs/QmWNqT1cazKKcKZ6vQabvkQcBqYM3hdDbyPa5fFK75qiMi/ <-- Does this work for you?
<dognosewhiskers> Worried about the warnings about how IPFS is alpa and not secure yet etc., though...
<deltab> "ipfs resolve -r /ipns/docs.ipfs.io/introduction/install/: no link named "install" under QmXF4RkZMJ6WzMWZHHBgxzWYFpWAaJet1j1F7KushmWZEq" is an error message about a missing directory in the docs
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<dognosewhiskers> deltab: ?
<dognosewhiskers> Is that output you are getting?
<deltab> in response to "Question: https://docs.ipfs.io/introduction/usage/ <-- Is the "installing from a prebuilt package" hyperlink really supposed to open that text document with one line of cryptic code?"
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<dognosewhiskers> Well, even then, it confuses me... :_S
<deltab> no, it's an error in the site publication process
<deltab> sorry my irc client was playing up and it took several minutes to respond
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<deltab> yeah, there's a lot that could be improved
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<dognosewhiskers> Does my test site at least work?
<deltab> lack of feedback is something that needs improvement too
<dognosewhiskers> Wait... are you saying that they have a free, public "HTTP proxy" on ipfs.io for any ipfs "URL"?
<dognosewhiskers> Well, I'm trying to give as much feedback as possible right now.
<deltab> thanks! no, I mean feedback from the gateway
<dognosewhiskers> That URL (https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmWNqT1cazKKcKZ6vQabvkQcBqYM3hdDbyPa5fFK75qiMi/) also just loads for me, both in this VM (with IPFS running) and in my host OS.
<dognosewhiskers> http://localhost:8080/ipfs/QmWNqT1cazKKcKZ6vQabvkQcBqYM3hdDbyPa5fFK75qiMi/ loads for me in my browser in this VM.
<dognosewhiskers> And by "just loads", I mean that it just "sits there".
<dognosewhiskers> As in, doesn't display the expected webpage.
<dognosewhiskers> Dammit. This got confusing.
<deltab> oh, thanks for the clarification
<dognosewhiskers> Neither works for you?
<deltab> right
<dognosewhiskers> Dammit. Then there's probably the same issue as with Dat.
<dognosewhiskers> Even though the Windows Firewall asked me and I accepted it.
<deltab> you localhost url will work for you because your machine has the data stored locally
<deltab> but others will need to connect to your machine to get the data from it
<deltab> my guess is that something about your network prevents incoming connections
<dognosewhiskers> My setup: This computer runs OpenVPN (connected to my VPN). It runs a VM with Windows 7 in it. The VM runs "ipfs.exe daemon". The VM can open the localhost IPFS URL. It apparently doesn't work for you.
<dognosewhiskers> No other networked software has issues except for IPFS and Dat.
<dognosewhiskers> Including ZeroNet, which worked without problems.
<dognosewhiskers> I even went into the firewall settings manually to make 100% sure it was blocked in the case of Dat.
<dognosewhiskers> They claimed that they were going to "reorganize the network code" with an upcoming update.
<dognosewhiskers> Which they claimed will fix the issues with VPNs not working.
<dognosewhiskers> I commented to them that I thought it was insane that a VPN connection breaks this, given that most people who are interested in this (at least as early adopters) are very likely to use a VPN.
<dognosewhiskers> Seems to be the same thing with IPFS?
<deltab> are you running any other software that receives connections, rather than just making outward connections?
<dognosewhiskers> Nope.
<deltab> I suspect that's the problem
<deltab> it's not just firewalls
<deltab> a connection to your machine has to be routed first to the VPN endpoint, then through the VPN, then to the VM
<deltab> when you make a connection out (e.g. to a web server), the VM is allocated a port by the OS, so that the response packets can be recognised and routed to the VM
<deltab> the VPN endpoint likely does the same thing
<deltab> but when someone tries to connect to you, those port mappings aren't there to signpost the way to your VM
<deltab> that's my guess, anyway; very difficult to tell without knowing the IP addresses involved
<deltab> what you could try though is making a connection out to ipfs.io bootstrap servers
<deltab> use the ipfs swarm command
<deltab> ipfs swarm peers
<deltab> ipfs swarm peers -v
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<dognosewhiskers> I mean, I'm not clear on the technical details, but aren't you saying that anyone who uses a VPN is going to be unable to use IPFS?
<dognosewhiskers> The VM just thinks it has a normal "network connection" and knows nothing about my VPN.
<dognosewhiskers> Anything inside the VM should just be "seeing" a normal Internet connection.
<deltab> does the VM have its own public IP address?
<dognosewhiskers> Absolutely not, no.
<dognosewhiskers> Not even the host machine has.
<dognosewhiskers> (NAT)
* deltab nods
<deltab> that's a problem for any incoming connection
<deltab> your need each step to be configured to accept incoming connections and forward them on
<deltab> that's an inherent problem with NAT
<deltab> and you have two levels of it
<deltab> not your fault, just the nature of networks nowadays
<dognosewhiskers> :/
<dognosewhiskers> This... really complicates stuff.
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<deltab> dognosewhiskers: are you able to access anything external through your ipfs gateway?
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<dognosewhiskers> deltab: Example?
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<deltab> /ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/IPFS
<deltab> correction, /ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/IPFS.html
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<dognosewhiskers> deltab: Does not load.
<deltab> do you get output from ipfs swarm peers -v ?
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<dognosewhiskers> deltab: Yes. Enormous amounts.
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<dognosewhiskers> A lot of lines ending with "outbound".
<deltab> as I'd expect, given your NAT situation
<deltab> I'm surprised you're not receiving data then
<dognosewhiskers> :/
<dognosewhiskers> I always seem to find bizarre bugs and edge-cases.
<dognosewhiskers> Even though I try not to do exactly that.
<dognosewhiskers> Sorry if I'm unresponsive -- as much as I need a P2P web to survive, I also need food for the same.
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<dognosewhiskers> Any idea what might be up?
<dognosewhiskers> Since I haven't forwarded any ports in the router (in itself a nightmare to deal with), I can't see how it would work if this is indeed a requirement.
<dognosewhiskers> If that is a requirement, BTW, it will really cripple IPFS's adoption potential.
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<dognosewhiskers> :/
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<dognosewhiskers> I mean, it's one thing if it was only for those who host content, but it's obviously even for those just wanting to browse other IPFS sites.
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<dognosewhiskers> So if every IPFS user has to fiddle with their routers' settings, well...
<dognosewhiskers> Please tell me it's not so.
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<deltab> dognosewhiskers: not everyone. Some don't have NAT; some have support for UPNP, which allows apps to change router/firewall config automatically
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<deltab> there's also workarounds for some types of NAT: e.g. two peers predict which port numbers their NATs will allocate them, tell each other via a third party, and attempt connections to each other. Each NAT sees a packet with the port number allocated to their outgoing connection, assume it's a reply, and forward it
<deltab> or something like that
<deltab> but I think that only works for one layer of NAT, not two
<deltab> IPv6 would make this easier by removing the need for most NAT
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<dognosewhiskers> deltab: Not sure what you mean by two layers of NAT.
<dognosewhiskers> Internet => MyISP => MyRouter => ThisPhysicalPC => (VM) ThisVMWithIPFS.
<dognosewhiskers> ThisPhysicalPC has OpenVPN software on it.
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<dognosewhiskers> HRRRRRRM!!!
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<dognosewhiskers> I don't get it. Why aren't there tons of people like me asking questions about this and the other P2P networks?
<dognosewhiskers> Do they even know these things exist?
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<JCaesar> deltab: If your external port is predictable (e.g. only dependent on internal ip+port and external port), the number of NATs shouldn't matter.
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<dognosewhiskers> Am I missing something?
<dognosewhiskers> Why exactly do I have problems running both Dat and IPFS, but not ZeroNet?
<dognosewhiskers> And it worries and annoys me that there's no enthusiasm.
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<swednec5> i think the biggest reason ipfs isn't more popular is that the performance isn't great yet
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<swednec5> once transfer speeds get faster, peer discovery more reliable, IPFS gets faster, and the implementations consume fewer resources, i think it'll get a lot more popular
<swednec5> * once transfer speeds get faster, peer discovery more reliable, IPNS gets faster, and the implementations consume fewer resources, i think it'll get a lot more popular
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<ShokuninDiscord[> Na
<ShokuninDiscord[> * Nah
<ShokuninDiscord[> I'm pretty confident it's because there's no killer app yet
<ShokuninDiscord[> It's like, why would you learn P2P in 1998 if there's no music sharing app
<ShokuninDiscord[> Of Ajax in 2003 if there's no Delicious / Flickr
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<stebalien> We've actually had a lot of interest for non-web applications but performance is always the issue.
<JCaesar> swedneck: btw, is there any progress on those things in the past… half year? I didn't get the feeling there is… :/
<JCaesar> The content discovery issue is especially painful. It's like IPFS kind of fails on its core promise. (e.g. https://github.com/ipfs/notes/issues/84#issuecomment-386232382 )
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<dognosewhiskers> swednec5: Um... and the little detail of it not working behind NAT...
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<dognosewhiskers> stebalien: How can "performance" be the issue?
<dognosewhiskers> I don't believe that...
<dognosewhiskers> The issue is it's not actually working without major fiddling about.
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<ShokuninDiscord[> I'd probably listen to Stebalien's take on this. He's literally one of the most informed people on IPFS on the planet
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<dognosewhiskers> Every single one of these projects have been a letdown for me. I don't know how to proceed.
<dognosewhiskers> But right now, I must go to bed against my will.
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<Acacia> I think ipfs could replace torrent if some torrent-like features were implemented into clients. Like keeping track of what the user is downloading across daemon restarts
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<Mikaela> that is important and also somehow staying on track what is being pinned, which I think files api to be doing after the move from pinning to it happens and remembering peers across restarts instead of forgetting them and having to reboostrap
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<D[m]1> How to register nick?
<ndorf> D[m]1: /msg nickserv help
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<swednec5> he's using matrix
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