#ipfs on 2019-09-20 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2019-08-14 07:05 stebalien changed the topic of #ipfs to: Heads Up: To talk, you need to register your nick! Announcements: go-ipfs 0.4.22 and js-ipfs 0.35 are out! Get them from dist.ipfs.io and npm respectively! | Also: #libp2p #ipfs-cluster #filecoin #ipfs-dev | IPFS, the InterPlanetary FileSystem: https://github.com/ipfs/ipfs | Logs: https://view.matrix.org/room/!yhqiEdqNjyPbxtUjzm:matrix.org/ | Forums: https://discuss.ipfs.io | Code of

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00:02 <dognosewhiskers> Nevermind. Found the separate article.

00:03 <dognosewhiskers> deltab: http://localhost:8080/ipfs/QmWNqT1cazKKcKZ6vQabvkQcBqYM3hdDbyPa5fFK75qiMi/ <-- Does this work for you?

00:04 <dognosewhiskers> Worried about the warnings about how IPFS is alpa and not secure yet etc., though...

00:04 <deltab> "ipfs resolve -r /ipns/docs.ipfs.io/introduction/install/: no link named "install" under QmXF4RkZMJ6WzMWZHHBgxzWYFpWAaJet1j1F7KushmWZEq" is an error message about a missing directory in the docs

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00:05 <dognosewhiskers> deltab: ?

00:05 <dognosewhiskers> Is that output you are getting?

00:06 <deltab> in response to "Question: https://docs.ipfs.io/introduction/usage/ <-- Is the "installing from a prebuilt package" hyperlink really supposed to open that text document with one line of cryptic code?"

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00:06 <dognosewhiskers> Well, even then, it confuses me... :_S

00:06 <deltab> no, it's an error in the site publication process

00:07 <deltab> sorry my irc client was playing up and it took several minutes to respond

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00:08 <deltab> yeah, there's a lot that could be improved

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00:09 <dognosewhiskers> Does my test site at least work?

00:10 <deltab> https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmWNqT1cazKKcKZ6vQabvkQcBqYM3hdDbyPa5fFK75qiMi/ ? my browser is still waiting

00:10 <deltab> lack of feedback is something that needs improvement too

00:11 <dognosewhiskers> Wait... are you saying that they have a free, public "HTTP proxy" on ipfs.io for any ipfs "URL"?

00:11 <dognosewhiskers> Well, I'm trying to give as much feedback as possible right now.

00:12 <deltab> thanks! no, I mean feedback from the gateway

00:12 <dognosewhiskers> That URL (https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmWNqT1cazKKcKZ6vQabvkQcBqYM3hdDbyPa5fFK75qiMi/) also just loads for me, both in this VM (with IPFS running) and in my host OS.

00:12 <dognosewhiskers> http://localhost:8080/ipfs/QmWNqT1cazKKcKZ6vQabvkQcBqYM3hdDbyPa5fFK75qiMi/ loads for me in my browser in this VM.

00:13 <dognosewhiskers> And by "just loads", I mean that it just "sits there".

00:13 <dognosewhiskers> As in, doesn't display the expected webpage.

00:14 <dognosewhiskers> Dammit. This got confusing.

00:14 <deltab> oh, thanks for the clarification

00:14 <dognosewhiskers> https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmWNqT1cazKKcKZ6vQabvkQcBqYM3hdDbyPa5fFK75qiMi/ doesn't work for me.

00:14 <dognosewhiskers> http://localhost:8080/ipfs/QmWNqT1cazKKcKZ6vQabvkQcBqYM3hdDbyPa5fFK75qiMi/ works for me.

00:14 <dognosewhiskers> Neither works for you?

00:14 <deltab> right

00:14 <dognosewhiskers> Dammit. Then there's probably the same issue as with Dat.

00:15 <dognosewhiskers> Even though the Windows Firewall asked me and I accepted it.

00:15 <deltab> you localhost url will work for you because your machine has the data stored locally

00:15 <deltab> but others will need to connect to your machine to get the data from it

00:16 <deltab> my guess is that something about your network prevents incoming connections

00:16 <dognosewhiskers> My setup: This computer runs OpenVPN (connected to my VPN). It runs a VM with Windows 7 in it. The VM runs "ipfs.exe daemon". The VM can open the localhost IPFS URL. It apparently doesn't work for you.

00:17 <dognosewhiskers> No other networked software has issues except for IPFS and Dat.

00:17 <dognosewhiskers> Including ZeroNet, which worked without problems.

00:17 <dognosewhiskers> I even went into the firewall settings manually to make 100% sure it was blocked in the case of Dat.

00:18 <dognosewhiskers> They claimed that they were going to "reorganize the network code" with an upcoming update.

00:18 <dognosewhiskers> Which they claimed will fix the issues with VPNs not working.

00:18 <dognosewhiskers> I commented to them that I thought it was insane that a VPN connection breaks this, given that most people who are interested in this (at least as early adopters) are very likely to use a VPN.

00:18 <dognosewhiskers> Seems to be the same thing with IPFS?

00:19 <deltab> are you running any other software that receives connections, rather than just making outward connections?

00:20 <dognosewhiskers> Nope.

00:21 <deltab> I suspect that's the problem

00:21 <deltab> it's not just firewalls

00:23 <deltab> a connection to your machine has to be routed first to the VPN endpoint, then through the VPN, then to the VM

00:25 <deltab> when you make a connection out (e.g. to a web server), the VM is allocated a port by the OS, so that the response packets can be recognised and routed to the VM

00:26 <deltab> the VPN endpoint likely does the same thing

00:27 <deltab> but when someone tries to connect to you, those port mappings aren't there to signpost the way to your VM

00:29 <deltab> that's my guess, anyway; very difficult to tell without knowing the IP addresses involved

00:29 <deltab> what you could try though is making a connection out to ipfs.io bootstrap servers

00:29 <deltab> use the ipfs swarm command

00:32 <deltab> ipfs swarm peers

00:33 <deltab> ipfs swarm peers -v

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00:35 <dognosewhiskers> I mean, I'm not clear on the technical details, but aren't you saying that anyone who uses a VPN is going to be unable to use IPFS?

00:36 <dognosewhiskers> The VM just thinks it has a normal "network connection" and knows nothing about my VPN.

00:36 <dognosewhiskers> Anything inside the VM should just be "seeing" a normal Internet connection.

00:36 <deltab> does the VM have its own public IP address?

00:36 <dognosewhiskers> Absolutely not, no.

00:36 <dognosewhiskers> Not even the host machine has.

00:37 <dognosewhiskers> (NAT)

00:37 * deltab nods

00:37 <deltab> that's a problem for any incoming connection

00:38 <deltab> your need each step to be configured to accept incoming connections and forward them on

00:40 <deltab> that's an inherent problem with NAT

00:40 <deltab> and you have two levels of it

00:41 <deltab> not your fault, just the nature of networks nowadays

00:52 <dognosewhiskers> :/

00:52 <dognosewhiskers> This... really complicates stuff.

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00:57 <deltab> dognosewhiskers: are you able to access anything external through your ipfs gateway?

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00:59 <dognosewhiskers> deltab: Example?

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01:01 <deltab> /ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/IPFS

01:02 <deltab> correction, /ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/IPFS.html

01:02 <deltab> http://localhost:8080/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/IPFS.html

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01:16 <dognosewhiskers> deltab: Does not load.

01:17 <deltab> do you get output from ipfs swarm peers -v ?

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01:23 <dognosewhiskers> deltab: Yes. Enormous amounts.

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01:23 <dognosewhiskers> A lot of lines ending with "outbound".

01:24 <deltab> as I'd expect, given your NAT situation

01:24 <deltab> I'm surprised you're not receiving data then

01:31 <dognosewhiskers> :/

01:31 <dognosewhiskers> I always seem to find bizarre bugs and edge-cases.

01:31 <dognosewhiskers> Even though I try not to do exactly that.

01:32 <dognosewhiskers> Sorry if I'm unresponsive -- as much as I need a P2P web to survive, I also need food for the same.

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01:54 <dognosewhiskers> Any idea what might be up?

01:54 <dognosewhiskers> Since I haven't forwarded any ports in the router (in itself a nightmare to deal with), I can't see how it would work if this is indeed a requirement.

01:55 <dognosewhiskers> If that is a requirement, BTW, it will really cripple IPFS's adoption potential.

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03:09 <dognosewhiskers> :/

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03:09 <dognosewhiskers> I mean, it's one thing if it was only for those who host content, but it's obviously even for those just wanting to browse other IPFS sites.

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03:10 <dognosewhiskers> So if every IPFS user has to fiddle with their routers' settings, well...

03:10 <dognosewhiskers> Please tell me it's not so.

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03:22 <deltab> dognosewhiskers: not everyone. Some don't have NAT; some have support for UPNP, which allows apps to change router/firewall config automatically

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03:27 <deltab> there's also workarounds for some types of NAT: e.g. two peers predict which port numbers their NATs will allocate them, tell each other via a third party, and attempt connections to each other. Each NAT sees a packet with the port number allocated to their outgoing connection, assume it's a reply, and forward it

03:27 <deltab> or something like that

03:28 <deltab> but I think that only works for one layer of NAT, not two

03:29 <deltab> IPv6 would make this easier by removing the need for most NAT

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03:49 <dognosewhiskers> deltab: Not sure what you mean by two layers of NAT.

03:50 <dognosewhiskers> Internet => MyISP => MyRouter => ThisPhysicalPC => (VM) ThisVMWithIPFS.

03:50 <dognosewhiskers> ThisPhysicalPC has OpenVPN software on it.

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04:20 <dognosewhiskers> HRRRRRRM!!!

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04:20 <dognosewhiskers> I don't get it. Why aren't there tons of people like me asking questions about this and the other P2P networks?

04:20 <dognosewhiskers> Do they even know these things exist?

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04:42 <JCaesar> deltab: If your external port is predictable (e.g. only dependent on internal ip+port and external port), the number of NATs shouldn't matter.

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04:48 <dognosewhiskers> Am I missing something?

04:48 <dognosewhiskers> Why exactly do I have problems running both Dat and IPFS, but not ZeroNet?

04:49 <dognosewhiskers> And it worries and annoys me that there's no enthusiasm.

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04:59 <swednec5> i think the biggest reason ipfs isn't more popular is that the performance isn't great yet

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05:00 <swednec5> once transfer speeds get faster, peer discovery more reliable, IPFS gets faster, and the implementations consume fewer resources, i think it'll get a lot more popular

05:00 <swednec5> * once transfer speeds get faster, peer discovery more reliable, IPNS gets faster, and the implementations consume fewer resources, i think it'll get a lot more popular

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05:38 <ShokuninDiscord[> Na

05:38 <ShokuninDiscord[> * Nah

05:38 <ShokuninDiscord[> I'm pretty confident it's because there's no killer app yet

05:38 <ShokuninDiscord[> It's like, why would you learn P2P in 1998 if there's no music sharing app

05:39 <ShokuninDiscord[> Of Ajax in 2003 if there's no Delicious / Flickr

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06:14 <stebalien> We've actually had a lot of interest for non-web applications but performance is always the issue.

06:18 <JCaesar> swedneck: btw, is there any progress on those things in the past… half year? I didn't get the feeling there is… :/

06:19 <JCaesar> The content discovery issue is especially painful. It's like IPFS kind of fails on its core promise. (e.g. https://github.com/ipfs/notes/issues/84#issuecomment-386232382 )

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08:06 <dognosewhiskers> swednec5: Um... and the little detail of it not working behind NAT...

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08:06 <dognosewhiskers> stebalien: How can "performance" be the issue?

08:06 <dognosewhiskers> I don't believe that...

08:06 <dognosewhiskers> The issue is it's not actually working without major fiddling about.

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08:10 <ShokuninDiscord[> I'd probably listen to Stebalien's take on this. He's literally one of the most informed people on IPFS on the planet

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08:51 <dognosewhiskers> Every single one of these projects have been a letdown for me. I don't know how to proceed.

08:51 <dognosewhiskers> But right now, I must go to bed against my will.

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12:52 <Acacia> I think ipfs could replace torrent if some torrent-like features were implemented into clients. Like keeping track of what the user is downloading across daemon restarts

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13:20 <Mikaela> that is important and also somehow staying on track what is being pinned, which I think files api to be doing after the move from pinning to it happens and remembering peers across restarts instead of forgetting them and having to reboostrap

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20:12 <D[m]1> How to register nick?

20:15 <swednec5> D: https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc/wiki/End-user-FAQ#how-do-i-registeridentify-to-nickserv

20:21 <ndorf> D[m]1: /msg nickserv help

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20:24 <swednec5> he's using matrix

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22:38 <deltab> D[m]1: this? https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc/wiki/End-user-FAQ#how-do-i-registeridentify-to-nickserv

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