<kares>
so e.g. with rspec you basically have no idea what's wrong
<headius>
yeah I don't like those useless inspects either
<headius>
can you show me example of your patch without me trying it?
<headius>
my concern was always that toString for a large object would be way too much information for inspect typically
<headius>
Java doesn't really have an inspect concept
<headius>
I suppose you have the same issue in Ruby if you inspect a large nested array or hash
<kares>
like what you'd like to see output?
<jmalves>
@kares @headius, thx for you anwsers!
<kares>
mostly I am not sure about draw backs I might be missing by going inspect -> toString
subbu is now known as subbu|afk
<kares>
I do not fear its too much info, would actually like to add a reflective inspect later -> to be able to do smt similar to apache's reflectiveToString builer
<headius>
jmalves: there are some type-specific collections out there that should work transparently both ways...but this is a down side of erasure obviously
<headius>
kares: might be interesting to add a way for us to runtime generify a collection
<headius>
we can see the generic parameters for a type...so you might tag a proxied Java collection with some fill in the blank values for those type parameters
<headius>
kares: so this just connects inspect to toString, ok
<headius>
at one point we had proposals for inspect that does reflectively crack the object but that was always a little problematic too
<headius>
if only JavaBeans had really taken off, then we could just use bean inspection for everything :-D
<headius>
kares: I don't have any objection
<headius>
the inspect output as it is now is basically useless
<jmalves>
headius: Yeah, but this is not very bothersome it is for a spec and besides there the Map stays in Java
<headius>
yeah
<headius>
ok
<headius>
jmalves: fwiw to_java(:int) works too
<headius>
for all the standard primitive types and :string
<headius>
yay, mkristian has patches to fix the property ordering and builds on 11
<headius>
chatting on gitter
<jmalves>
:+1: I adopted that suggestion
<headius>
oh yeah I said that above :-)
<headius>
coffee hasn't kicked in
<headius>
kares: once we can build on 11 it will make the process smoother obviously
<headius>
we still have those stupid ByteBuffer issues though
<headius>
I really don't want to explicitly cast everything to Buffer but I'm not sure how else to do it
<headius>
other than requiring Java 8 class library to build
<kares>
headius: going to clean CI cache and restart build to see
<headius>
kares: I'm wondering if it's caching the gems for lib build and then 11 works from then one
<headius>
I failed on 11, succeeded on 9 and 10, and then succeeded on 11
<kares>
oh yeah that might explain it
<headius>
mkristian is on gitter...I suggested that gems are caching so it doesn't try to fetch again, but he thought it should always still be loading jossl
<kares>
but as I was talking with Kristian its a loading issue
<headius>
yeah
<kares>
jossl isn't really used with maven plugins
<kares>
it just gets loaded due rubygems doing a require
<headius>
right
<kares>
and now there actually should be a dummy openssl.rb
<headius>
hmm
<headius>
it does beg the question why we can't update the plugins to 9.2
<kares>
headius: I might have been the one against it
<kares>
there's this issue with Gem.path not working ... which I am not sure if is a real problem
<headius>
hmm
<kares>
but if it is it would go bad for sure with the embedded maven setup
<headius>
At least bump to a version of JRuby that we know runs properly on 9+
<enebo>
lopex: headius: yeah dropped and bottom is plastic pieces threaded into each other...pushed the threads sideways and I don't think I can trust this thing if I re-thread them again
<lopex>
ah
<enebo>
It has about 3 gallons of portable brewers wash in it at the time. I was lucky I got it into the sink without needing a lot more cleaning equipment
<lopex>
yeah re-threading is bad
<enebo>
probably about .75 gallons on the floor
<enebo>
lopex: I am looking at a stainless 7 gallon one now
<enebo>
lopex: but I am debating how much fun it will be to carry and clean
<lopex>
enebo: probably much costlier ?
<lopex>
steel isnt cheap right ?
<enebo>
yeah the plastic ones are ~100$ give or take and this one I think is 300 but now I cannot see it on their website
<enebo>
It was there before
<enebo>
and 300$ is actually pretty cheap for stainless but this is still a really nice unit
<lopex>
ok, sa we dont have access to pellets then here
<lopex>
we have some "domestic" hops but that's just a few
<enebo>
lopex: I have never used plugs
<enebo>
lopex: pellets are the main thing since they are super small and don't suck up a lot of water
<lopex>
enebo: they seem to only use plugs here it seems
<lopex>
ok
<lopex>
enebo: so you're lucky in that respect then
<enebo>
lopex: yeah home brewing really has been a thing in the US for decades so I think we have a lot of options
<lopex>
or they might be costly here
<lopex>
enebo: in eu is just like a two or three "national" hops available per country
<enebo>
lopex: but a lot of this also is connected to craft brewing popularity where US has had one a bit longer
<lopex>
and you have plenty
<lopex>
yeah
<enebo>
lopex: we keep making new ones too but they are all proprietary
<lopex>
I read a bit about Us beere
<lopex>
enebo: and yet like 6 years ago I thought US was bad at beer
<enebo>
US from non-US always gets this bad opinion of US beer but in spite of all the cheap adjunct lagers we drink we probably have the most diverse beer scene in the world now
<lopex>
enebo: all propaganda :P
<enebo>
lopex: an old reputation...like Java is slow
<lopex>
enebo: but I remember some shortage of hops in the use in like 60ies so they use japansese ones like sorachi
<lopex>
enebo: is there truth in that story ?
<lopex>
*in US
<enebo>
I have never heard it but it is possible since pacific northwest is major producer of hops
<enebo>
Maybe they had a horrible year for hops
<lopex>
enebo: in US ofc
<enebo>
Wisconsin in 19th century used to be dominant state for hops...not sure how many hops even exist there now
<enebo>
but Minnesota/Wisconsin also had a lot of German settlers
<enebo>
lopex: there definitely are years where particular hops are hard to come by
<lopex>
enebo: and they are still trying to mix all of them
<lopex>
genetically
<lopex>
enebo: I still love citra mostly for ipas
<enebo>
I like citra
<lopex>
and then some simcoe mix
<lopex>
cascade is too weak for me
<enebo>
I like amarillo and simcoe and cascade
<enebo>
but I do definitely believe mixing some of these really helps
<lopex>
but citra is very strong
<lopex>
yeah
<lopex>
enebo: that mosaic I dont realy remember what that was
<headius>
there was a big hop shortage just a few years back
<lopex>
enebo, headius I hate that there's some demand on gose now
<lopex>
I dont really dislike it
<lopex>
it's just not my thing
<lopex>
I like most barleys
<lopex>
but I'm stil an ipa guy
<headius>
hah yeah so that's your current phase there?
<lopex>
headius: no, I'm ipa since four years or so
<headius>
I mean in Poland, lots of goses?
<headius>
it's all NE IPA here right now, to an annoying degree
<lopex>
headius: heay, now it seems
<headius>
enebo: those bash changes seem ok?
<lopex>
headius: but after so many ipas I can really give a value to a good lager
<headius>
I am now wondering if there's a security concern about turning off bytecode verification for everything
<lopex>
good lager can be good
<headius>
but I don't know how to turn it off just for boot classes
<lopex>
headius: and what about windows bats ?
<headius>
ugh
<headius>
we ship a .exe so I dunno about the scripts
<lopex>
should be one to one right ?
<headius>
yeah we still have a .bat
<headius>
I guess this could be powershell on pretty much all extant Windows, no?
<lopex>
headius: and ppl will want to set envs for a process on windows still
<lopex>
ugh
<lopex>
I wonder what's ps adoption really
<headius>
oh whew
<headius>
jruby.bat just calls jruby.exe
<headius>
so it's just there for backward compat or something
<lopex>
and how it interacts when executed from ps script ?
<lopex>
wrt env vars
<lopex>
does any one know ?
<enebo>
headius: the ones we were talking about earlier with the java9 -d detect thing?
<headius>
yeah
<headius>
hmph
<lopex>
er
<headius>
I don't like the disabled verification
<lopex>
java9 is a label for >8 now right ?
<enebo>
headius: no verify is something that may be nice to disable for testing at least
<enebo>
I am less worried about our released jars causing strife from no verification and I guess if you are using lots of other released jars in jruby hopefully someone is verifying those in their test envs
<enebo>
I am not really worried about security ramifications of it
<enebo>
but we once released something which ran but would not verify in the past
<enebo>
from what I recall we just would catch and interpret
<headius>
well the vector would be someone figuring out a bug in our or someone else's bytecode generation and getting JVM to load bad bytecode that does something bad somehow
<headius>
it does seem distant
<lopex>
that ver is just boot cp or noverify ?
<enebo>
if we test out jars with verify on then it is still possible we have an error but we run enough where it is pretty unlikely. Including random foreign jars would be my main question mark
<enebo>
but most of those are from released projects which probably run with verify on normally
<enebo>
I guess I don't know :)
<lopex>
headius: you mean you fear an exploit of some sort ?
<headius>
I guess
<headius>
poking around online there's a few pages that say NEVER DO IT OMG
<lopex>
but jruby was always on boot cp right ?
<lopex>
well, almost always
<headius>
right...but that's not going to work for module stuff in 11
<lopex>
ah
<headius>
or at least I think it violates something