<willmore>
karlp, I'm not understanding what you're saying, sorry.
<karlp>
nvm, not really on topic anyway...
<willmore>
k
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<megi>
jernej: USB3/dwc patch got to stable/linux-5.2.y
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<miasma>
hm, anyone measured the opi zero lts with mainline kernel yet?
<miasma>
their power consumption specs seem a bit odd. i'm pretty sure my old opi zero used less than 1W when idle
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<willmore>
miasma, do you know the board rev?
<willmore>
The first rev was lower power, but several (?) of the later revs used more power.
<miasma>
this new is 1.5
<miasma>
i have 1.2 and 1.4
<willmore>
I don't have a quick way to measure my board power use--I'll need to hack together a micro-USB cable.
<willmore>
I think I have 1.1 and 1.2
<willmore>
pre-spi and first gen of spi
<willmore>
I'll see if I can get something together and see what I can find. How recent of a kernel do you need tested?
<KotCzarny>
he is asking about opi0lts specifically
<KotCzarny>
since they claim some imporvements
<miasma>
yep
<KotCzarny>
so would need to test earlier opi0s and lts using same card maybe
<miasma>
but i can measure it myself some time later. haven't ordered anything yet. might take 3-4 weeks
<willmore>
That's what I assumed. I thought info on older boards might be helpful as a comparison.
<KotCzarny>
willmore, only if you used same measuring conditions
<willmore>
KotCzarny, good point.
<willmore>
At idle most uSD cards don't use much power.
<willmore>
But I take your point.
<miasma>
you'll definitely need the same kernel and voltage/freq settings
<KotCzarny>
same os, same config etc
<willmore>
miasma, what continent are you on?
<KotCzarny>
i wonder how much adding vreg adds to price/board complexity
<miasma>
willmore: fi/europe
<willmore>
miasma, darn.
<KotCzarny>
miasma: send 10usd to icenowy :>
<KotCzarny>
get results in 1-3 days ;)
<willmore>
KotCzarny, they're just using an adjustable regulator and using a GPIO to mess with the setting to get the other voltage.
<willmore>
It's a pretty sketchy way of doing it.
<miasma>
well, if anyone is interested in a low power board, the problem with opi zero is that while it's quite low power when idle, the max power consumption can be quite high.
<willmore>
Yeah, four cores of cpuburn on that guy can suck up a few Watts.
<KotCzarny>
but having that power available while also having low idle wattage is nice
<willmore>
tkaiser had a post on armbian's forums about the stuff you can do to lower power useage and make it tighter bound--shut down processors you don't need, limit the clock speed, lower DRAM clocks, knock ethernet back to 10BT, etc.
<KotCzarny>
willmore, you can also kick clocks off on some components
<KotCzarny>
ie. gpu
<willmore>
KotCzarny, which for an H2 seems a no-brainer. :)
<KotCzarny>
yup
<willmore>
Also, making sure the display pipeline is off.
<KotCzarny>
so there is definitely room for tweaking
<willmore>
Unless you're using the CVBS output, I guess.
<KotCzarny>
but 100mA seems low enough, i wasnt able to get lower than ~40mA in fake-off anyway
<miasma>
i'd recommend some other board if a single core is sufficient
<KotCzarny>
with most components off
<willmore>
miasma, for the price?
<miasma>
it's nice that opi zero has quad-core if you happen to need that much power
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<miasma>
willmore: like esp32
<willmore>
512MB 600MHz A7(?) and ethernet are still way beyond an ESP32. But, yeah, if you're that far down, ESP32 is a great solution.
<willmore>
There's just a bit of a gap between the two.
<miasma>
then there's rpi zero :)
<willmore>
If you live somewhere you can actually buy one...
<willmore>
The only reasonably priced place in the USA to get them is Microcenter and I'm 5 hours from the closest one.
<willmore>
And that really is down in the ESP32 processing power range.
<willmore>
KotCzarny, I laugh when I see the people talking about taking an SBC and wanting to make a long term battery powered. Even an ESP32 uses too much power for that unless you're using the deep sleep modes with the low power core handling things.
<miasma>
maybe in the near future they'll publish some cortex-a32 boards manufactured @ 7nm
* willmore
laughs
<KotCzarny>
:)
<willmore>
Yes, that would be great.
<willmore>
But they'd make them 8 core...
<KotCzarny>
i wouldnt mind H3 @ 7nnm
<KotCzarny>
*nm
<willmore>
H6 with working PCI-E...
<KotCzarny>
pcie is a powerhog
<willmore>
Yeah, I know.
<willmore>
So's USB3
<willmore>
But those are going to use a lot of power regardless of the process dimensions.
<willmore>
At least the CPU won't be such a pig.
<KotCzarny>
so, H3/H5/A64/R40 @ 7nm
<KotCzarny>
one could dream
<KotCzarny>
but even now, we have complete computers that fit in the hand
<KotCzarny>
and cost less than few beers
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<miasma>
opi zero is probably my favorite board. it's armv7, provides all the common interfaces. can be used for all sorts of embedded hobby projects. if you need realtime 5v compatible gpio, stm/arduino boards can be connected via i2c/serial easily
<KotCzarny>
..that runs full linux
<miasma>
mainline linux :)
<willmore>
So, a single core A7 at 800-1000 MHz with some good GPIO and pretty low power would be interesting to people?
<KotCzarny>
depends on people
<KotCzarny>
and the uses
<KotCzarny>
audio, video, networking is also required often
<miasma>
indeed. one of the advantages of opi zero is also that it doesn't contain all the extra functionality
<willmore>
I'm thinking breadboard kind of projects, so no video, but networking and a good selection of GPIO and the normal interfaces--I2C, SPI...
<KotCzarny>
you need esp32 then
<KotCzarny>
:)
<willmore>
What if you wanted full linux...
<miasma>
there's also vocore
<willmore>
true.
<miasma>
I have few of them, but don't like how the headers are so tiny
<willmore>
1mm pitch or something?
<miasma>
might be
<miasma>
nanopi duo is also quite interesting, but the price is too high for me
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<willmore>
Ahh, the vocore2 has 0.05" spacing (1.27mm). Yeah, that's down in the "I don't want to hand solder that" range.
* willmore
avoids and FA boards
<willmore>
any
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<[TheBug]>
eh I don't really have an hate for FA, they look like they actually have some decent newer boards, like the M4, however, yeah.. I have never been excited about the H3 boards very much at least, amoung the other H3 boards I actually, and I can't believe I am saying this, place the Nano Pi M1 boards less desirable than the SinoVoip M2+ H3/H2+
<mru>
we're using nanopi neo core in some products
<willmore>
My concern is the incertain level of support they have for their boards. I bought a board only to have them promptly discontinue it. yay....
* willmore
can't English today...
* willmore
spent a lot of time doing public speaking yesterday and seemingly blew a fuse in his language processor.
<KotCzarny>
256MB of ram costs 2usd, apparently
<KotCzarny>
looking at opi0lts prices
<KotCzarny>
shipping costs are crazy.
<KotCzarny>
8.5usd for the board, 7.6usd for shipping, wtf
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<[TheBug]>
they want you to buy in bulk, one would hope if you bought 4 it would be the same cost to ship
<KotCzarny>
nah, if you order more than 1 aliexpress increases the cost
<[TheBug]>
wow then ya thats a rip
<KotCzarny>
shipping 2pcs is 12.7usd
<KotCzarny>
3pcs is 17.8usd etc
<[TheBug]>
but it isn't like half the ebay sellers and such don't do the same thing, nothing like finding a 20$ board with 15$ shipping or something goofy
<KotCzarny>
i suspect that's aliexpress' doing, not the shop
<miasma>
earlier buying 2-3 opi zeros used to be a bit cheaper
<KotCzarny>
at this rate it would be cheaper to order some kickstarter boards
<miasma>
the friendlyarm/odroid shipping prices are even worse. on top of that, our VAT laws kick in if the total cost grows too much
<[TheBug]>
KotCzarny: it isn't unusual for those selling close to BOM to try to get a few dollars out of you in the shipping, because by the time you get there you already dedcided you want it, so the chances you won't pay that extra few dollars is slim. Not saying people don't walk away, but thats one way to make sure you turn a dollar or so profit.
<[TheBug]>
I assume thats the thought process here as well
<miasma>
it's even sillier in ebay. some products cost 20 eur + shipping 0,50 eur. some other seller might have 5 eur product + 20 eur shipping costs
<[TheBug]>
and it probably turns out less walk away than you would expect.
<[TheBug]>
miasma: ya its to manipulate you psychologially, because you will see the low price and get excited and again, some people are so excited about the price they don't pay attention to the shipping till they are checking out...
<KotCzarny>
but it also affects customs/vat, you pay for the product, not shipping
<[TheBug]>
so you could argue they are making the boards and your customs cheaper by charging you more for the shipping and less for the board I guess?
<[TheBug]>
the fun in running a web store lol
<[TheBug]>
anyhow bbiab
<miasma>
KotCzarny: depends on the country. i think here it's the same after the product > 22 eur or something like that
<miasma>
so, nanopi neo ends up costing 31 eur atm
<miasma>
a bit less, 25eur/unit if you buy 5
<miasma>
23 eur/unit (set of 20)
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<MoeIcenowy>
to be honest, the shipment cost of OPis inside China is also relatively high
<MoeIcenowy>
it costs ~$1.45 to ship a single board to here
<KotCzarny>
o.o
<MoeIcenowy>
however some component resellers can do at ~$0.6
<KotCzarny>
i wonder if their prices are regulated somehow, and how much they try to squeeze money out of shipping
<MoeIcenowy>
do you know what company did they ask for shipment service?
<miasma>
KotCzarny: i think the aliexpress standard shipping is pretty good these days. ymmv, but they've improved the tracking and it's compatible with the system from our local post office
<libv>
willmore: that post is not exactly groundbreaking :)
<vagrantc>
heh
<libv>
new to me and you and others
<libv>
but google got me a 6y old link :)
<KotCzarny>
willmore: sure, but charging 7.5usd for the board is kinda high, compared to what used to be in the past (~3-4usd)
<willmore>
KotCzarny, context?
<KotCzarny>
erm, s/willmore/miasma/
<willmore>
libv, everything old is new again.
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<libv>
tbh, anything comes with arm cores these days
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<miasma>
is this iBoot some u-boot derivative
<libv>
anything pluggable
<willmore>
Just addressing KotCzarny's 'just put the computer in the cable' comment. Been done. ;)
<libv>
miasma: "saveenv" also had me wondering
<willmore>
Yeah, thunderbolt cables have more CPU than any computer I owned before '93.
<libv>
and the question of "lisa braun", "how did you debug it" was a bit weird
<libv>
of course the answer is jtag
<libv>
only actual hackers get by with a uart.
<libv>
"but you can put it in rescue mode with a button and are uploading over usb dfu anyway", "run this windows script over an arm debugger over segger crap, and don't worry if it doesn't work the first time as we do not check return values, just run it again"
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<karlp>
man, why isn't that nyan_satan series of atweets a single web page article?
<mru>
because people have completely forgotten how to pick the appropriate medium of communication
<libv>
karlp: why do people use forums instead of mailing lists?
<libv>
why do people do business chat over whatsup instead of write emails?
<mru>
bad analogy
<libv>
whatsapp
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<KotCzarny>
why do people use matrix instead of plain irc client?
<veremitz>
lulz
<libv>
:)
<veremitz>
such chat. wow.
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<OneManHateGroup>
Hi all, I'm trying to get alpine to boot on an old NTC C.H.I.P the $9 computer that failed miserably... I need help flashing it with the current alpine for ARM. I have the Sunxi tools installed
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<OneManHateGroup>
The CHIP is in FEL flash mode
<libv>
it did not fail miserably
<libv>
there were wr=orse
<libv>
but they only did achieve some things because people pointed out their flawed marketing, in a way and an environment where they could not ignore it
<OneManHateGroup>
I think it's a dandy piece of hardware, but the OS on it is crap and I'd like to put the alpine.tar.gz on it, but I can't seem to understand how to do it with the sunxi tools
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