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<mfiano>
If I make a custom "continue" restart, is there a way to register that with SLIME as the default for when 'c' is pressed?
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<Bike>
i figured sldb bound c to just (invoke-restart 'continue)
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<loke>
Bike: It should. since there is even a function called CL:CONTINUE
<loke>
(which does that)
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<mfiano>
I'm not sure. I have a few restarts labeled CONTINUE with different reports
<mfiano>
'c' invokes the one that I want to switch away from
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<asarch>
I do: (defclass point () (....)) and then (defgeneric draw (point) ...) and later (defmethod draw ((point p1)) (...)) but I get "There is no class named COMMON-LISP-USER::P1".
<jackdaniel>
asarch: first comes the name, then the specialization
<jackdaniel>
so (defmethod draw ((p1 point)) …)
<jackdaniel>
your class has a name "point"
<jackdaniel>
usually error messages are quite informative, in this case it told you, that there is no class "p1" – skimming where did you put this symbol would indicate the problem
* asarch
takes notes...
<asarch>
How would you do (from C++): class point {int x, y, z; ... }; class rect {point p1, p2; ...}; (the "point p1, p2;" part)?
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<jackdaniel>
I would write function for that and use it
<asarch>
So you can't actually have slots that are instantiation of other classes?
<asarch>
...per se?
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<jackdaniel>
I think I don't understand your question
<jackdaniel>
I thought you were talking about batch initialization
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<jackdaniel>
if you talk about having class instances as members of another class, you have it without any declarations
<jackdaniel>
CL works on references, remember?
<jackdaniel>
you may add :type initarg to slot definition, but there is no guarantee it will be enforced
<asarch>
...
<asarch>
?
<jackdaniel>
CCL enforces it, SBCL does it only for relatively high safety levels
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<jackdaniel>
minion: please tell asarch about pcl
<minion>
asarch: please look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
<loke>
jackdaniel: SBCL enforces it on the default safety level, which is good enough, no?
<asarch>
I have that book
<jackdaniel>
loke: it certainly did not on 1.4.1 version, because I needed defclass* for that (to increase the safety level locally)
<jackdaniel>
I don't know what about newer versions
<jackdaniel>
asarch: slot (like variable names) doesn't have a type, it just stores a reference to the variable (which is typed)
<loke>
jackdaniel: You're right, this has changed
<loke>
it used to do this a few years back
<jackdaniel>
so (defclass rect () ((p1 :initform (make-point 0 0)) (p2 :initform (make-point 1 1)))) is a class having by default two points
<beach>
Good morning everyone!
<loke>
asarch: As for your question, you'd create a rect class like so: (defclass rect () ((p1 ...) (p2 ...))
<jackdaniel>
but you can do (setf (slot-value rect 'p1) 'boom) and you won't have a point in one of the slots
* jackdaniel
leaves asarch in more konwledgeble hands, needs to take a shower (just finished morning excercie)
* asarch
takes notes...
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<loke>
asarch: You should learn about :INITARG as well
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<loke>
asarch: She's my countryman, and I've followed her videos on and off.
<loke>
I didn't kjnow she was a developer though.
<White_Flame>
did she do any lisp stuff?
<asarch>
As far I know, she is not
<asarch>
She only assembles pieces of mechanics stuffs
<asarch>
Without any AI at all
<White_Flame>
yeah, i've seen a lot of her videos
<asarch>
They are fun
<asarch>
Specially those with blades :-P
<loke>
I think the fact that they're all mechanic makes them more interesting and fun
<asarch>
Yeah
<asarch>
I am even learning Arduino to, some day, build robots with AI
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<asarch>
If I have (defgeneric draw (point) ...) and then (defmethod draw (p1 point) ...) and (defmethod draw (p2 point) ...), how can I specify which one (p1 or p2) version of draw I want to use?
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<jackdaniel>
if you want two distinct point classes which are drawn differently, you need to create them and specialize on them
<asarch>
How do you access to the documentation value of each slot?
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<jackdaniel>
did you look in the spec?
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<jackdaniel>
it has a note near the bottom of the page about that
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<asarch_>
Sorry, sorry
<asarch_>
Linux kernel nowadays is really a mess
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<asarch>
Did you know that Microsoft has recently purchased GitHub?
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<asarch>
I guess that, by default, all projects stored there now are property of Microsoft :-(
<jackdaniel>
I'm certain many people heard about that, but it seems a bit offtopic, hence it belongs to #lispcafe
<jackdaniel>
no, that's not how copyright works (again, offtopic ;)
<phoe>
asarch: 1) wrong 2) #lispcafe
<buoyantair>
:3
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<asarch>
You can't access to the :documentation value of each slot?
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<jackdaniel>
you can, but it is not portable. did you read the page in the spec?
<jackdaniel>
one way to do that is: (find-class 'foo), PPM on it in slime, select inspect, go to "SLOTS" slot of the class and inspect individual slot
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<asarch>
Thank you
<jackdaniel>
I'm sure my question got missed in a wall of text – did you read the page in the spec about "documentation" function?
<didi>
How do I copy the intelligent way structures are printed, using my own :print-object? i.e. I want to open a line whenever I print to a too high column.
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* didi
just found function `PPRINT-NEWLINE'
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<didi>
I'm feeling I'm getting closer.
<asarch>
No, I didn't. I just was wondering the Lisp way to access the documentation for the "point.x" slot
<jackdaniel>
why didn't you? this is a way you look up things by yourself (without depending on others)
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<jackdaniel>
as a bonus point trying to look things up first saves you from creating (hopefully misleading) impression, that you value your time more than person's who you ask for help
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<otwieracz>
Yes, I'd rather do that but due to backward compatibility I need to do this in Lisp here…
<xificurC>
mcclim isn't on the list of recommended libraries on cliki :(
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<beach>
xificurC: You can use it anyway.
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<loke>
xificurC: cl-gss isn't in the list either, but if you want to integrate with Kerberos, that's the one to use.
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<loke>
...for example
<xificurC>
those are all nice and true comments that don't change the truth - it's not on the list of recommended libraries :( Who's choosing these recommended libraries?
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<shka>
xificurC: human
<loke>
xificurC: It's on the wiki, isn't it?
<jackdaniel>
xificurC: you may modify wiki and add it (but only if you recommend it ;_)
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<loke>
It's added
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<xificurC>
some have said here that codewalking is not a good idea (IIUC it's implementation dependent?). However searching for this term doesn't give too many results for me. In Let Over Lambda there was a section called "code-walking with macrolet". Is this just his idea or is macrolet what is referred to as codewalking? Would that mean using macrolet is di
<xificurC>
scouraged? Are there any books/articles about the danger of codewalking?
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<shka>
xificurC: macrolet allows you to often avoid code walking
<shka>
as for bad idea: it is
<shka>
corner cases
<shka>
difficult to handle those
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<jackdaniel>
with code-walking you need a full knowledge about special operators used in the source code
<jackdaniel>
CL defines twenty-something special operators and implementations add some on top of that
<jackdaniel>
so it is not trivial in a sense, that you need to handle around 30 special cases and you are never sure, if there isn't some operator you are not aware of
<xificurC>
shka: just to be clear, codewalking is the bad idea, not macrolet, right?
<jackdaniel>
Michael Raskin had a lightning talk about portable code walking during ELS two years ago
<xificurC>
jackdaniel: yes someone linked his agnostic lizard repo for me a few days ago
<xificurC>
yes that one
<jackdaniel>
ECL (for instance) bundles its own code walker which handles special cases
<xificurC>
it's just that the readme didn't explain or link to the issue it is solving. And the alternatives are saying "removes macrolet" which I don't know how to explain
<jackdaniel>
it is not documented (except elaborate comments in the source code)
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<shka>
xificurC: what you are trying to do?
<shka>
what problem you are solving
<xificurC>
shka: quenching the unstoppable thirst of understanding everything
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<xificurC>
but also learning from other people's wisdom (and mistakes to not repeat them)
<shka>
right
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<shka>
xificurC: let over lambda explains this quite well i think
<shka>
chapter 5
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<xificurC>
shka: I'm never sure if I can trust that book. Just last time I asked on it and was told it defined macros that have issues with code-walking
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<xificurC>
namely defmacro! and defmacro-g! and their lookup mechanism for gensymed symbols
<xificurC>
the part about why it is difficult to codewalk I understood, however I don't understand what does "macroexpand-dammit (only macroexpansion, removes macrolet)" mean in agnostic-lizard's README
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<xificurC>
ah, jdz 's link is talking just about that lookup mechanism :)
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<shka>
xificurC: well, book pretty much reprises what jackdaniel said
<shka>
and it is very accurate
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<xificurC>
shka: yet he defines a bunch of macros that do naive code-walking
<xificurC>
he being the author of Let Over Lambda
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<shka>
xificurC: did you reach macrolet part?
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<xificurC>
but to summarize what I hope to have learned from this - macrolet is fine when wanting to expand something in the function-call position (sorry for the improper term, not sure what the correct term is). If one wants to do transformations that require searching for anything else naive code walking techniques will fail in bizarre ways
<xificurC>
shka: I'm reading the chapter on forth right now, so yes
<shka>
then you surely noticed how it explicitly states that writing code walkers is challenging
<shka>
xificurC: combination of symbol-macrolet, macrolet and flet can do wonders
<xificurC>
shka: yes I noticed. What I might have not explained explicitly is that I don't know how much can I trust a person that says to understand the complexity of the issue and then goes on creating macros that by one's own definition will fail to take that complexity in mind
<xificurC>
e.g. while I like defmacro!'s g! and o! symbols I don't want to take that shortcut if I'll end up debugging some broken expansion for hours before understanding it's not my bug but the macro's
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<shka>
yp
<shka>
*yup
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<shka>
anyway, code walking usually is a bad idea
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<jkordani>
good morning lisp
<phoe>
hey jkordani
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<beach>
jkordani: Are you new here? I don't recognize your nick.
<tazjin>
beach: do you keep an index over all of us? Are there notes on every person?
<Bike>
rolodex, yo
<shka>
beach and his notebook :D
<beach>
tazjin: No index and no notes.
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<jkordani>
i haven't used this nic yet but I've been around for a while
<beach>
I see.
<xificurC>
beach: are you an author/maintainer of some CLs? I saw you mention sicl and cleavir?
<beach>
xificurC: Yes, but SICL is not finished yet.
<beach>
minion: Please tell xificurC about SICL.
<minion>
xificurC: SICL: SICL is a (perhaps futile) attempt to re-implement Common Lisp from scratch, hopefully using improved programming and bootstrapping techniques. See https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL
<beach>
minion: Please tell xificurC about Cleavir.
<minion>
xificurC: Cleavir: A project to create an implementation-independent compilation framework for Common Lisp. Currently Cleavir is part of SICL, but that might change in the future
<xificurC>
one needs to know one's deities
<xificurC>
i don't know if I spelled that right. gods is a simpler word
<xificurC>
beach: any other historical?
<beach>
No, no other Common Lisp implementation. However, I was one of the creators of McCLIM, now maintained by jackdaniel.
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<xificurC>
nice resume
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<akkad>
wow
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<makomo>
xificurC: i just saw the discussion regarding code-walking, it was me who linked the stuff :-)
<makomo>
xificurC: FWIW, while i think LoL is a great book, i also don't like how he just skips over the code-walking issue in his defmacro/g! and defmacro! macros
<makomo>
he completely ignores it in that context
<makomo>
the first time i was reading LoL and came here for help regarding the "brokenness" of those exact macros, i was told there were many before me as well
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<makomo>
it's a shame it's not stated in the book
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<Bike>
i believe the book was published before the sbcl change
<Bike>
and nobody reads errata
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<makomo>
Bike: good point, i haven't checked the errata actually
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<makomo>
"When browsing the text online, you will see the original content, exactly as printed."
<makomo>
why though :^(
<Bike>
consistency
<makomo>
i guess so
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<pjb>
makomo: you may have a look at cl-stepper to see my opinion about code-walking ;-)
<makomo>
pjb: i think you linked it a few days ago. i took a quick look but can't remember much. i'll check it out :-)
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<drmeister>
I wonder if anyone has insight into an issue I'm seeing with docker and quicklisp - I'm trying to do something unusual.
<drmeister>
I've got a docker image (docker hub: drmeister/cando) that I'm mounting a ~/.cache and ~/quicklisp/local-projects directory into.
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<drmeister>
These directories are on the host and mounted into the corresponding directories in the docker image.≈
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<drmeister>
Everytime I start the docker container - quicklisp recompiles the systems from the ~/quicklisp/local-projects directory
<drmeister>
I'm trying to also mount the .cache directory - so that it can use the cached fasls - but that is not working.
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<drmeister>
quicklisp/asdf use time stamps of the source files and fasls to decide if it should recompile something - correct?
<drmeister>
Hmm - the docker image uses UTC time by default. Maybe it doesn't like that the compiled fasls look like they are from a couple of hours in the future.
<drmeister>
But - fasls compiled in the future are always better than fasls compiled in the past. Hmmph
<akkad>
mount option may n ot include the right atime/ctime/mtime
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<akkad>
drmeister: you can fix that with updating the /etc/localtime and other /etc/ timezone items to match the hosts
<drmeister>
I'll try messing with the time settings.
<akkad>
or maybe run a `find ~/.cache -exec touch {} \;`
<akkad>
to set them to the current time in the instance
<akkad>
add that to your Dockerfile
<akkad>
that way you can avoid installing time related packages, and playing the time difference gam
<akkad>
ditto quicklisp dir perhaps
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<akkad>
or, you could use COPY directive instead of -v ~/.cache:~/.cache
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* akkad
takes this to #clasp
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<aeth>
What's the best way to deal with "multiple return value" C functions where you pass in pointers that it sets? I'm thinking static-vectors:with-static-vector and then pass in pointers to each element of that array.
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<pillton>
What is wrong with cffi:with-foreign-objects?
<Bike>
assuming the function just uses the pointers for returning values, i'd just stack allocate, yeah
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<aeth>
pillton: thanks, that's simpler
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