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<shka>
i need name
<shka>
my issue is that i have a macro that basicly establishes variables and macrolet that expands to let
<shka>
i need it in the context of lparallel
<shka>
because i am writing stuf like (let ((tmp-dynamic *dynamic*)) (future (let ((*dynamic* tmp-dynamic)) do-some-stuff))))
<shka>
and it would be nicer to have macro that minimizes this boilerplate
<shka>
i have troubles imaging good name, though
<shka>
any suggestions?
<jackdaniel>
slv-let
<jackdaniel>
scope-local-variable-let
<jackdaniel>
can't you do just (let ((*dynamic *dynamic*)) …) though?
<jackdaniel>
I've missed the star there
<_death>
within-future
<shka>
jackdaniel: I can but i found it to be annoying enough to not
<shka>
it is just error prone
<jackdaniel>
let me confirm: you find (let ((foo *foo*)) (something (let ((*foo* foo)) …)) less cumbersome than (something (let ((*foo* *foo*)) …) ?
<shka>
i find something like (slv-let (*foo* *bar* *baz*) (future (+ *foo* *bar* *baz*)) less cumborsome
<jackdaniel>
sure, but this is not my question
<shka>
then let over future over let over body
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<shka>
your question is not relevant to the topic then
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<_death>
jackdaniel: I don't think rebinding the special var directly would work.. since by then it will already be in the future
* jackdaniel
looks at the topic which states: Common Lisp; also looks at the snippet - seems relevant; also decides, that pursuing answer is not worth it, later
<shka>
_death: yup
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<jackdaniel>
_death: maybe I miss some piece of knowledge about futures in this library, but using tmp-dynamic in let inside the future indicates, that future has access to lexical scope it is defined in
<jackdaniel>
hence it should have access to *dynamic* as well
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<_death>
it has access to the lexical bindings, but the dynamic ones may be different since it runs in a different thread
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<jackdaniel>
uhm, makes sense. thank you
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<jackdaniel>
as of name, that practice reasembles lolol macro (let over lambda over let), so lofol sounds appropriate
<shka>
lofol
<shka>
i love it
<shka>
though it sounds cryptic
<_death>
I see the rebinding as just a particular preparatory step for evaluating the body in the future.. hence my name suggestion.. of course you may want it to be a bit more specific, within-this-kind-of-a-future
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<shka>
_death: yeah, i see your point
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<shka>
i wrote generic purpose macro called with-rebind, now i will write with-lparallel-future
<kuribas>
in sbcl, make-sequence-iterator returns a lot of objects. The step function takes an iterator object, but which one is it? I thought it was "iterator state", but that doesn't work.
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<_death>
it is the iterator state.. it also takes more arguments
<kuribas>
strange it didn't work then...
<kuribas>
maybe I had the order wrong?
<_death>
maybe
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<kuribas>
I'll try it again
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<kuribas>
_death: I tried again. I am getting "The value (5) is not of type NUMBER when binding SB-KERNEL::X"
<_death>
a simple (sb-sequence:position 'a '(a b c d) :from-end t) demonstrates the issue
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<Xof>
I wish I had written a "you have used a generic sequence function with :from-end t on a built-in sequence; congratulations!" error message
<Xof>
(no, this mistake was not intentional)
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<Xof>
please report / send patch
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<jdz>
Xof: nowadays it would be more like "Achievement unlocked: used a generic sequence function...".
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<sjl>
/quit
<sjl>
welp
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<JuanDaugherty>
roch has one thing going for it
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<beach>
What is it, and what does it have going for it?
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<ebzzry>
Has anyone tried cl+j on SBCL?
<rpg>
according to the web page, it "does NOT work reliably on SBCL..."
<rpg>
My experience is that trying to have the JVM or .NET VMs share a process space with any lisp is fraught. You're better off invoking java across a process boundary. Less efficient, but many CL implementations are effectively VMs, and don't share well with the JVM. In particular, we have found that both like to use signals in ways that cause confusion.
<rpg>
This is necessarily inefficient :-)
<rpg>
s/:-)/:-(/
* rpg
pretty much hates programming language VMs...
<JuanDaugherty>
beach, it's a city in western ny state, I may have mistaken sjl for somebody else
<sjl>
oh, yeah, roch == rochester, ny
<rpg>
Rich Hickey has an old, orphaned, JVM interface that might work better if you can bring it back to life or Allegro has a proprietary one.
<sjl>
still haven't set up an irc bouncer so I guess my ISP shows on join, ha
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<JuanDaugherty>
and it's that it isn't buffalo
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<JuanDaugherty>
and no, it musta been another channel, you are apparently running off an EC2 instance now
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<JuanDaugherty>
anybody use gbbopen? wondering how well its custom threading thing works
<sjl>
Oh, right, work VPN
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<beach>
So, in SICL, I plan to use Doug Lea's technique for memory allocation in order to allocate racks in the global heap. But, Doug Lea's own description of it is a bit skimpy on the details. Plus, I need to adapt it a bit and make certain choices. I think the best thing to do is to include a complete description of what I want to do in the relevant chapter of the SICL specification.
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<beach>
Hmm. I don't think there is anything preventing me from having things like nursery heaps, blocks of dyads in the global collector, or even thread stacks, implemented as first-class object with racks managed by the global collector. Doing it this way would simplify introspection tools a lot.
<beach>
If I am right, at the very lowest level of all memory management, there would be a heap managed by Doug Lea's technique.
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<shka>
beach: well, your joy is my joy
<beach>
Thanks! I am mainly thinking out loud. But, of course, if anyone sees any objections, I am willing to reconsider.
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<shka>
you won't get any objections from me, it is way above my level ;-)
<shka>
anyway, i can't wait to see this in action
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<beach>
Yeah, well, don't hold your breath. It will take some time.
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<shka>
beach: i would guess so
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<jeosol>
morning guys, and hope we are still having fun hacking CL
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<beach>
Hello jeosol.
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<jeosol>
Hello beach.
<jeosol>
Been a while. Took some time off, some training and continuing ed, and back working on that challenge project.
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<beach>
Welcome back.
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<jeosol>
Thanks beach.
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<mfiano>
beach: Do you intend to use CL to implement the GC too?
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<jeosol>
hi guys
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<jeosol>
Has anyone had to convert CL CLOS code to C++, and how much functionality where you table to retain and how painful. Been a while since I worked C++, and I hear there are new variants 98, 11, 17, etc.
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<jeosol>
There is a guy who is asking me to implement some code, developed similar functionality in CL (SBCL mostly) but they use only C++.
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<TMA>
jeosol: forget about generic functions being specialized on anything but the first argument; forget about anything MOP-related; forget about anything related to upgrading instances/changing class
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<TMA>
jeosol: it's not that it cannot be done, after all, you can implement a common lisp in c++, but it is not natural there
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<jeosol>
I did move from C++ to CL after grad school. I agree with the one argument specialization and other things mentioned. it will be such a pain to go back given all time invested working with CLOS
<jeosol>
I am not sure of cross-language implementation (ala build new module in C++) they will freak out since I will be the only one that knows how to work the code. And this new module will grow in size.
<jeosol>
Was thinking the recent improvements in C++ would have done more better changes. I recall, I wasn't as productive and it may be a pain overall.
<jeosol>
Thanks for the inputs TMA.
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<flip214>
jeosol: perhaps you can do CL and provide a C library to use via ECL?
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<jeosol>
flip214: That's an interesting option.
<jeosol>
I can also expose the tool I bit that way I suppose.
<jeosol>
There is still the whole CL implementation issue when they want to extend etc.We'll see tomorrow.
<jeosol>
thanks Flip214
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<p_l>
jeosol: another option might be to do RPC?
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<jeosol>
@p_l: what is RPC?
<jeosol>
to add some more context: the problem of going back to C++ is that most of what I was able to do is because of features in CL (and CLOS), I may need to dumb down offerings or not have a feature-for-feature match moving to C++.
<p_l>
remote procedure calls, essentially package the lisp code as a server
<jeosol>
@p_l: I see, thanks for that.
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<Bike>
Hello, it's time for another obscure standards lawyer question from me
<Bike>
CLHS gives the example (adjoin '(new-test-item 1) '((test-item 1)) :key #'cadr) => ((test-item 1))
<Bike>
This implies that the key is also called on the item being adjoined
<Bike>
The actual description of ADJOIN, however, says it works by the usual two-argument test rules, which include the key not being called on the item
<_death>
why do you think it implies that
<_death>
ah, I misread the code
<Bike>
Because otherwise it would be doing (eql '(new-test-item 1) (cadr '(test-item 1))), which is false, so the result would be ((new-test-item 1) (test-item 1))
<_death>
right
<Bike>
The example implementation of ADJOIN in terms of MEMBER explicitly calls the key on the item because MEMBER doesn't