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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
<jackdaniel>
\o
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<ahmed111>
Good Morning.
<beach>
ahmed111: Are you new here? I don't recognize your nick.
<ahmed111>
Yeah.
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<beach>
What brings you to #lisp?
<ahmed111>
I joined yesterday.
<beach>
jackdaniel: Why do I have a @ in front of my name?
<ahmed111>
I have read Paul Graham's essays about CL.
<beach>
Oh, nice.
<ahmed111>
Currently I'm in minor confusion should I start CL or Clojure.
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<jackdaniel>
beach: I've added a few op rights yesterday for time of this spamsession to make it possible to kick bots when I'm not around
<beach>
OK.
<ahmed111>
I have worked with Python previously.
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<jackdaniel>
fixed
<beach>
ahmed111: Well, you are in a channel dedicated to Common Lisp, so the advice given here will be biased.
<beach>
jackdaniel: Thanks.
<ahmed111>
beach: yeah.
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<Demosthenex>
so with slime in emacs, any way to set the max buffer size? i'm at nearly 200k lines of scrollback atm
<Demosthenex>
i set a truncate and max lines for comint, but that didn't seem to affect slime
<kenster>
what in god's name are you doing with that much scrollback?
<kenster>
no idea though, sorry :/
<Demosthenex>
i have a bunch of debug messages flying by
<Demosthenex>
i don't want that much scollback ;] thats why i'm asking about truncation
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<Demosthenex>
i'm scraping data from a restful api, and it's flowing pretty smoothly now. maybe i should just log to a file :P
<kenster>
have you tried turning it on an off again
<Demosthenex>
hah! well i may restart slime later to see if the comint changes take effect, but i expected them to be instant
<Demosthenex>
i'm in a batch atm
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<schweers>
Demosthenex: If I recall correctly, you can kill the repl without killing the whole process. This doesn’t help you if you have a running command in said repl (I think).
<Demosthenex>
schweers: i could also manually trim the buffer, but i suspect there's a setting
<Demosthenex>
i already checked slime's and comint's customize
<schweers>
If you find one, let me know.
<jackdaniel>
clearing REPL output (manually) is C-c M-o
<Demosthenex>
jackdaniel: yep.
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<18WAA3D66>
or maybe this blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
<18WAA3D66>
Hey, I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
<aeth>
clhsgang[m]: It wouldn't work, it floods as much as it can, so even if you detected the first line, you'd let in at least 3 lines
<aeth>
and it uses a botnet or proxies or something so it's a different IP each time
<aeth>
It's the exact same line each time though, so you could filter it. Perhaps auto-ignore anyone who says it
<aeth>
In fact, it usually gets killed after 5 lines (saw it die after 1 once), so perhaps the message is even longer and it just takes that long as a network delay to get to it.
<aeth>
See the logs of #scheme if you want to study its behavior. #scheme got hit really hard earlier today. This is the first time I'm seeing it here in #lisp
<Demosthenex>
why is it always a pedo scandal? :P
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<jdz>
Can we please not give the spammers more attention than they deserve?
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<clhsgang[m]>
damn
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<iqubic>
Has anyone here tried the NEXT browser?
<iqubic>
I believe that a fellow by the name of jmercouris was working on it.
<iqubic>
I think it's written in lisp.
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<antoszka>
I'll give it a go next week. Holiday time.
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<jackdaniel>
iqubic: iirc it is a wrapper around webkit2gtk+
<jackdaniel>
s/webkit2gtk+/webkit/
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<MrMc>
thanks I will have a look at mixalot and cl-wav-synth
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<MrMc>
cl-wav-synth looks like what I am looking for.
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<schweers>
beach: A few weeks back we had a conversation about the performance difference between classes and structs. I changed a lot of the structs in my code to classes and the performance difference is indeed very small, especially when setting the optimization settings to speed.
<schweers>
I’ll let you know how it goes for the really CPU intensive stuff.
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<LdBeth>
MrMc: you might be interested in CLM, a sndlib based sound synthesis system.
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<jackdaniel>
eventually, do you define :default-initargs in class definition?
<kenster>
LOL wrong level of parentheses
<kenster>
I think anyways
<kenster>
sec
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<kenster>
okay yeah that was my fault I think
<kenster>
there's no :default-initargs though, would that be a problem?
<jackdaniel>
no, that shouldn't
<jackdaniel>
*it* shouldn't (?)
<kenster>
okay now I have to debug foreign function memory faults
<kenster>
any way to make that easier? lol
<Bike>
not really
<beach>
Program in Common Lisp instead.
<jackdaniel>
kenster: do you use cffi?
<kenster>
yes
<jackdaniel>
and you call some already existing library? or your own foregin functions?
<kenster>
they are my own foreign functions
<kenster>
so they may be broken
<jackdaniel>
I'd first look if you have correct function declarations with defcfun, then I'd debug your own functions from outside lisp (with gdb called from some shabby main.c)
<jackdaniel>
s/from/against/
<kenster>
okay, thank you
<kenster>
luckily it's an easy mistake, I used auto in an extern "C" block
<jackdaniel>
and since these are your own functions, recompiling them with bunch of printf is also an option - that's my *lame* favourite debugging technique
<kenster>
where do the printfs go ? does cffi put those to *standard-output*?
<jackdaniel>
to stdout (descriptor 1). if standard-output also prints there, then terminal will be the same
<jackdaniel>
but this is not a case if you use slime
<jackdaniel>
then it will appear in inferior-lisp
<kenster>
awesome
<kenster>
okay thank you, hopefully this works out
<jackdaniel>
good luck and have fun ;)
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<kenster>
it's very fun haha
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<kenster>
hmmm I'm not seeing the printf result in my inferior-lisp, maybe because it is running in a wookie route it doesn't print? but that's weird because I'm able to say, pprint in a route for instance
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<Bike>
might be buffered
<Bike>
i have no idea what a wookie root is, tho
<Bike>
if you mean pprint like lisp pprint, that's less likely to be affected by an apache routine doing weird things with stdout,or whatever
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<kenster>
wookie is a common lisp http server
<dlowe>
Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!
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<kenster>
jackdaniel: is this necessary? (cffi:defcvar ("stdout" stdout) :pointer)
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<jackdaniel>
if you use printf then no. as I said, I would try to debug your C code with conventional methods (not via Lisp)
<jackdaniel>
I'm going to be afk in a minute, so I won't be much help tonight
<kenster>
alrighty then
<kenster>
no worries
<kenster>
oh I'm a dumb ass
<kenster>
it was in *inferior-lisp* all along
<Bike>
did you not check?
<kenster>
I thought it would print in the REPL like a tard
<kenster>
:(
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<jackdaniel>
did
<jackdaniel>
didn't I say it will be in inferior-lisp?
<kenster>
>.>
<Bike>
you literally said "I'm not seeing the printf result in my inferior-lisp"
<Bike>
please don't make things up if you don't understand what someone trying to help you is saying
<kenster>
I forgot the two buffers are distinct
<kenster>
the REPL and *inferior-lisp*
<kenster>
in slime, they're two buffers, right? I forgot that
<kenster>
but OK
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<jasom>
kenster: *inferior-lisp* is basically the emacs hosted console for running the lisp; the REPL is launched by slime after the lisp is up and running.
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<kenster>
yeah, I don't think I was cognizant of that fact because SLIME redirects you to the REPL after briefly showing *inferior-lisp*
<jasom>
kenster: It actually depends on how you configure it, but yes that can be confusing. IIRC the repl isn't even loaded by default with slime.
<jasom>
but if you use a prepacked slime+lisp+emacs (e.g. portacle or lispstick) then you do get dumped into the REPL immediately
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<kenster>
it might just be spacemacs's lisp layer that does that too
<jasom>
some people prefer to not use the repl at all, rather using the evaulation shortcuts from a scratch buffer.
<kenster>
I think you're right though, the repl isn't loaded by default
<Bike>
slime-repl is a separate contrib or suchlike.
<jasom>
minion: memo for beach: I've been reading more on SICL's GC. Will all calls into foreign code be treated as potentially blocking operations? I can't think of any other safe way to do it.
<minion>
Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks.
<Bike>
it's not like beach is one to concern himself terribly with foreign code
<jackdaniel>
I think beach is not especially interested in restraining himself with non-lisp code (i.e ffi)
<jackdaniel>
heh
<Bike>
man's got a reputation
<jackdaniel>
not that it's not reiterated every now and then on this channel
<jackdaniel>
good night everyone \o
<jasom>
well part of the advantage of a non-moving GC is FFI, and I think he did mention that somewhere in one of his papers
<kenster>
good night jackdaniel thanks for the tips
<jasom>
all you need to do is promote any object you make a foreign pointer to be outside the nursery and you never need to worry about it moving again
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<kenster>
gaaah I need help with a macro again :(
<Bike>
you gonna elaborate or are you just making a statement
<kenster>
by putting slot-value in that apply call with when, could I get rid of one level of quoting?
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<_death>
you can also pull the expression out of the apply form and have (apply ... ,@the-result ...) .. if I'm guessing what you want correctly, then you didn't need another level of quoting anyway, you were just confused and got yourself further confused
<kenster>
oh fug, it works
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<kenster>
yeah that happens with me and macros
<kenster>
I still haven't read Let Over Lambda :p
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<_death>
again, it's a good idea to write down the macroexpansion you want.. then you can write a function to generate it.. and s/defun/defmacro
<_death>
On Lisp has some good tips on writing macros
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<kenster>
in this case I was modifying an existing macro
<kenster>
I was already working with this
<kenster>
but before I didn't include the (slot-value self 'ptr) portion if has-ptr was true
<kenster>
I thought it would be trivial to add but the nested backquoting had me confused
<kenster>
unnecessary nested backquoting*
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<pjb>
_death: not necessarily. What matters, is that the objects have a make-load-form method, or are otherwise savable in the fasl file.
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<pjb>
They don't need to be printable readably at all.
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<kenster>
hey so it tries to do slot-value self 'ptr but it's using CFFI-UTILS:ptr instead of the correct field name
<kenster>
it's supposed to be FILE-BUCKET:ptr
<kenster>
do I have to pass in the package symbol into the macro?
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<pjb>
yes.
<pjb>
symbols are symbols.
<kenster>
ty
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<v0|d>
kenster: (symbol-package symbol)
<pjb>
kenster: file-bucket:ptr !
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<_death>
pjb: this is true but still I don't see it as good style
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<didi>
I just noticed: isn't it interesting that remove-* functions don't mutate data, but REMF and REMHASH do? I mean, for consistency, REMF and REMHASH should be called DELF and DELHASH because delete-* functions mutate.
<Xach>
what about maphash
<Bike>
delete doesn't necessarily mutate, though
<Bike>
remf is in its own boat
<_death>
what about remprop..
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<_death>
it's interesting that it was retained while, say, putprop was not
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<aeth>
didi: The order of gethash is wrong, too
<aeth>
It's (gethash key hash-table) while most other things go (foo object key-or-index-or-whatever) except iirc nth
<aeth>
The latter order has to be the general order because aref accepts multiple indices, e.g. (aref 0d-array) and (aref 1d-array 3) and (aref 9d-array 4 5 6 1 2 3 7 8 9)
<_death>
it is not "wrong".. in certain programs it is actually the preferred order
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<aeth>
_death: When everything except 2 has one convention and the rest have the other order, then it's wrong by the conventions of the language
<edgar-rft>
REMAINDER doesn't mutate either :-)
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<pierpa>
lol
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<_death>
aeth: assoc, find, ...
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<aeth>
_death: find is not an accessor. assoc then makes it 3. Still not good, considering plists, sequences, arrays, etc., go the other order
<_death>
aeth: CL is inconsistent in this regard, but there were reasons, historical or otherwise..
<aeth>
I'm pretty sure the reason was 100% historical
<_death>
aeth: what I'm saying is that in your own programs, there are reasons to go either way as well
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<_death>
aeth: well, there was a reason when the operator was defined too :)
<aeth>
Everything new should follow the new order, i.e. the order ELT, AREF, and GET, etc.
<_death>
aeth: nope
<aeth>
It also makes it more like other languages.
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<_death>
aeth: other languages don't have special variables or good support for REPLs