<Kundry_W_>
This `let` form redefines `counsel-ag-base-command`, which is used in `counsel-ag`
<didi>
Kundry_W_: This looks like elisp. You would have better luck by asking in #emacs.
<Kundry_W_>
Oh, sorry, I didn't notice my window was on #lisp
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<ldb>
morning
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<parjanya>
good morning!
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<mfiano>
pillton: Do you have a moment?
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<beach>
ASDF seems to find all the .asd files in my hierarchy that existed when I put a link in quicklisp/local-projects. But it doesn't seem to find .asd file that I created after that, even though I have started a fresh SBCL.
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<beach>
I have no idea what is going on.
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<beach>
In the past, I have put links in .cache, so local-projects is new to me.
<akkad>
recreate the local projects index?
<beach>
*sigh*, thanks.
<mfiano>
Basically, get used to calling ql:register-local-projects if you have a symlink in local-projects, or you create new systems in a sub-directory.
<beach>
I get it, thanks.
<mfiano>
Sure
<beach>
It's just that the technique I used before, i.e. putting symlinks in .cache didn't require any action other than restarting SBCL after I create a new system.
<beach>
Oh, well.
<beach>
So I was confused.
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<beach>
I wonder why Xach did it that way.
<beach>
Er, not .cache. .local
<beach>
~/.local/share/common-lisp as I recall.
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<hjudt>
a question about good practice: alexandria is considered pretty stable. can i rely on this by simply using this lib, or is it better to import selected symbols of it, or take the safe way and use alexandria:symbol in my code so one sees immediately where the symbol comes from?
<hjudt>
how do other people deal with this?
<_death>
I use :import-from
<pjb>
hjudt: in general, lisp software is stable. We don't have enough resources to change it every other day.
<pjb>
hjudt: the fastest CL software is sbcl which issues an new release each month. (You don't have to upgrade each month).
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<beach>
hjudt: I still recommend using explicit package prefixes. It makes it more obvious where the symbols come from to the person reading the code.
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<flip214>
beach: that's good advice -- though I'm not sure whether for such well-known things like alexandria the line length lost isn't a higher cost.
<Xach>
beach: My practice was to put things directly at the top-level always, whether directories, symlinks to single projects, or symlinks to .asd file. So the thing I made initially always worked. But later I realized that I add new .asd files in subdirectories sometimes, and the magic would fail, so I made a way to scan deeper manually.
<beach>
flip214: I don't think so, but I haven't checked.
<shka1>
flip214: alexandria is probabbly one of the few libs that are actually safe to :use
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<beach>
Xach: OK, but when I use ASDF directly and I put symbolic links in .share, ASDF picks up new, deeply nested .asd file as soon as I start a new session. Are you using a different mechanism from that of ASDF then?
<beach>
shka1: So nothing is ever added to Alexandria?
<Xach>
beach: Yes.
<beach>
Got it.
<beach>
Thanks.
<Xach>
My mechanism predates ASDF's.
<beach>
Oh, I see.
<shka1>
i don't know for certain if nothing
<shka1>
but it feels like it :P
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<pjb>
hjudt: beach: in any case, for released software, you would freeze the versions of your dependencies. So it doesn't matter if stuff is added o not.
<aeth>
Personally, I use :use only in two cases: (1) my own packages and (2) if the package is heavily tied to something else. (A bar/foo package that deals with the cl-foo bindings to foo might :use foo)
<aeth>
Although you could argue that in case #2 you're *more* likely to have name conflicts, not less
<aeth>
s/name conflicts/future name conflicts/
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<Xach>
beach: The algorithm is this: if there is a valid system index file in the local-projects directory, look inside it for the system with the given name and return the result. a system index file is valid if it exists and is newer than the timestamp of the directory in which it lives.
<Xach>
those rules mean that new files that don't affect the directory timestamp will not be found automatically.
<Xach>
new files or directories.
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<Xach>
oh, and create an index if there isn't a valid one
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<beach>
Xach: Thanks, makes sense.
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<beach>
So if I implement the memory manager in Common Lisp, let's say on x86-64, and I create functions that read and write memory using 64-bit addresses, I don't take any great risk by assuming that such addresses will always be fixnums. On a typical existing operating system, I just restrict addresses to the lower half of the available 48-bit address space, and I am far from the fixnum limit.
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<TMA>
beach: for the foreseeable future the full 64 bit address space will not be used, except maybe on supercomputer clusters
<beach>
Yeah.
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<beach>
For a while there I was worried about how to avoid bignums in the memory allocator. I thought perhaps I needed to inline the memory-access functions so that the compiler could elide the box/unbox pairs. But it won't be necessary for some time.
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<flip214>
beach: 32bit is not a target?
<pjb>
beach: I would have assumed that an OS could use the 64-bit for virtual addresses, but it looks like the x86-64 PMMU ignores the first 16 bits, and that in any case at most 52-bits can be used. Furthermore, the upper bound of the total deployed RAM on the planet seems to be barely 2^67 or 2^68, so unless your system allow you to address all the computers of the world, 64 bits are definitely too many. So yes, it's safe to assume
<pjb>
even 48 bits max.
<beach>
I think I won't attempt that.
<beach>
flip214:
<beach>
pjb: Yeah, I figured it out. Thanks.
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<pjb>
beach: I mean, I can see a lot of applications for a 72-bit memory space, at sites, like the GAFAs or the NSA…
<beach>
I don't think they would be interested in SICL anyway.
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<pjb>
Who knows. We had somebody at ELS Paris working for the US army, IIRC.
<flip214>
32bit would be the RPi2, for example...
<beach>
flip214: Too many constraints.
<flip214>
pjb: 72bit would be 64bit + a few segments? ;)
<flip214>
beach: ack.
<flip214>
and not enough registers ;)
<pjb>
Well, actually you'd want to address the hard disks too.
<beach>
pjb: Yes, definitely in LispOS, the disk is going to be THE address space. RAM will just be a cache.
<beach>
But with a bit of luck, they will increase the number of address bits by a few by the time I need that much disk.
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<phoe>
Xach: I'm here to poke you about the Quicklisp dist update
<phoe>
Are you still stuck in the same place? If yes, how can I help you get unstuck?
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<Xach>
phoe: there are a few issues i can avoid or work around to put out a new release by tuesday.
<Xach>
I'm going to use an old sbcl to avoid the conium breakage and its consequences
<Xach>
I'm going to use debian 8 to avoid the gsll breakage
<Xach>
there's a bordeaux-threads semaphore problem that remains, and a few more too
<Xach>
I really want to progress to debian 9 and the latest sbcl, but that breaks a lot of stuff.
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<jackdaniel>
Xach: what bt semaphore problem?
<shka_>
finally home
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<skidd0>
Hello, has anyone worked with bknr and made their own encoder and decoder methods?
<skidd0>
Tdata/tutorial.lisp file only says that (2) user-defined object syste,s need to register their own
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<skidd0>
and the only code show is
<skidd0>
Function ENCODE (OBJECT STREAM)
<skidd0>
Function DECODE (STREAM) =< OBJECT
<skidd0>
I am unsure what it is telling me to do here
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<mood>
skidd0: Looks like custom encoding/decoding happens using the generic functions encode-object and decode-object, on which you can define methods
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<mood>
There's also define-persistent-class, but I'm not sure what that does
<skidd0>
so I have a LOCAL-TIME time stamp that needs to be encoded. I would make a defmethod specialized on the timestamp
<skidd0>
so encoding it might jsut be as easy as sending the 2018-07-#### to a binary format?
<mood>
I think so, yes, and you also need to pick a unique tag character, it seems
<skidd0>
and decode that reliably to the timestamp
<aeth>
phoe: When I've had to do that I think I determined that the easiest way was a loop with two collects
<aeth>
hmm, wait, I think that's wrong
<pjb>
Why limit yourself to 2 classe? (com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.list:equivalence-classes '(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) :test (lambda (a b) (zerop (mod (- a b) 3)))) #| --> ((9 6 3) (8 5 2) (7 4 1)) |#
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<aeth>
(loop for item in (alexandria:iota 10) if (evenp item) collect item into evens else collect item into odds finally (return (values evens odds)))
<aeth>
I *think* that's the simplest way to do it in standard CL.
<Bike>
loop for item below 10
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<aeth>
Bike: yes, but I was writing it so you could trivially refactor it into something like this: (defun split-list (list function) (loop for item in list if (funcall function item) collect item into evens else collect item into odds finally (return (values evens odds))))
<aeth>
(I guess function should be called test)
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<Xach>
(let ((in (remove-if-not test list)) (values in (set-difference list in)))))?
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<Xach>
(values (remove-if-not test list) (remove-if test list))?
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* Xach
is late to the party
<mfiano>
phoe: A concise way is with #'partition from serapeum, also re-exported from au:
<jackdaniel>
Xach: so to confirm - the problem is not with (new) bt semaphore implementation, but rather with bt-sempahore?
<jackdaniel>
if I had to guess it is broken because bt-semaphore has (:use :cl :bordeaux-threads) in its package while bordeaux threads exports conflicting symbols
<jackdaniel>
so bt-semaphore tries to overwrite functions/macros in bordeaux-threads package (because it has its symbols used)
<jackdaniel>
I've added appropriate comment to the linked issue
<Xach>
thanks
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<Xach>
cl-async's libcrypto stuff is also a problemo
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<aeth>
Xach: I think I'd go with your second solution in a quick script or the REPL (simplest in that it's the shortest amount of code), and my solution in a program (simplest solution that iterates through the list once?).
<Xach>
yeah, it's wasteful
<Xach>
but of course a good compiler should detect and rewrite it!!
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<aeth>
Xach: yeah, but that's the kind of thing where I'm sure every compiler author would say "patches welcome!"
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<aeth>
(And then you wind up doing something that's harder than the entire program you were trying to do)
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<kaun>
Will a WebAssembly-implemented Common Lisp make it easier to get at a GUI portably? Right now, I imagine GUI CL apps aren't feasible on OSX & Windows.