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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<no-defun-allowed>
morning beach
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<leedleLoo>
Hi, I'm working on an app that will probably end up using a Kafka cluster some point soon and was wondering if anyone here has used a CL library for Kafka. After searching online, I only found this: https://github.com/yehohanan7/cl-kafka. It's incomplete and uses the http endpoints; I'd much rather use something based on librdkafka: https://github.com/edenhill/librdkafka.
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<no-defun-allowed>
though i'm not sure if i can eliminate that recursion since the left hand would be recursive in nature
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<beach>
no-defun-allowed: Some parsing techniques can't handle left recursion.
<beach>
Others prefer it.
<beach>
The bottom-up techniques are best with left recursion.
<beach>
You can rewrite the grammar as the literature suggests, but if your AST is derived from the structure of the rules, then you destroy your AST structure. The literature does not really discuss parsers, just "recognizers" for which any modification of the rules that preserves the language being recognized is acceptable.
<makomo>
good morning
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<makomo>
beach: which book would you recommend for learning about compilers? would you go with the dragon book or something else?
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<beach>
It depends on what aspect of compilers you want to learn about. A lot of the literature is about parsing, which is not a very interesting topic anymore, at least not for compilers.
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<jackdaniel>
lisp in small pieces builds a good intuition from the ground up
<beach>
So if you are interested in compiler optimization, there is always Muchnick's books.
<jackdaniel>
starting with naive interpreted, through bytecodes compiler to a transpiler
<jackdaniel>
interpreter*
<beach>
Yes LiSP is good for Lisp semantics and stuff.
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<jackdaniel>
also working on existing compiler is a hands-on experience (i.e by solving existing issues) with an additional perk of improving things for others
<beach>
Also, particularly for Lisp, there is an older book named Anatomy of Lisp.
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<beach>
makomo: Muchnick's book is good as an overview of what has been done and what is possible to do. But his algorithmic language is absolutely awful, so I always go directly to the paper he cites in order to understand a particular technique.
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<makomo>
beach: indeed, that's exactly what i've heard elsewhere and how i felt during my compilers course
<makomo>
most of the course focused on parsing and really little of it was about optimization techniques, etc.
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<makomo>
LiSP is on my todo list :-)
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<leedleLoo>
makomo: Engineering a Compiler by Cooper and Torczon is nice; it doesn't spend too much time on parsing
<beach>
makomo: Yeah. When I was in charge, I divided that course in two: "Parsing techniques" and "Compilation", because parsing technique are independently useful for other things, like DSLs and data analysis.
<beach>
Got to run. Sorry.
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<makomo>
i've heard about all the books mentioned so far, so i guess i'll just have to dig in and see how they differ. i skimmed over the dragon book to see just how much it focuses on parsing, but haven't read enough to conclude anything yet
<makomo>
beach: cool. :-) bye!
<jackdaniel>
it seems you have plenty of time in your hands ;-)
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<makomo>
jackdaniel: eh, it was only during a bus ride so i had no choice :-)
<makomo>
jackdaniel: btw, i will get to that wager soon, sorry for the long long hold up
<makomo>
hopefully before the new year :D
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<ggole>
makomo: essentials of compilation is a nice introductory text, particularly for a programmer comfortable with Lisp
<ggole>
(And it's freely available.)
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<ggole>
Appel's book(s) are also not bad
<makomo>
ggole: oh, i think i recognize one of the authors of essentials of compilation from the Boost.Graph library, neat
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<jackdaniel>
sigh, clx isn't a champion of graceful timeout handling
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<jackdaniel>
so here comes the question: teach it to become a champion (hours) or busy-wait without touching clx's macrology (minutes)
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<leedleLoo>
I was able to load the system and that's always a good sign
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<hjudt>
is c2ffi maintained or unmaintained? i have successfully build the llvm-5.0.0 branch using llvm-7, but there have been no updates for quite some time it seems...
<hjudt>
s/build/built
<hjudt>
also, what is the recommended way to write a new cffi project nowadays?
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<no-defun-allowed>
beach: I see.
<no-defun-allowed>
As far as I know, this grammar as a deriative of Smalltalk should be done using a more recursive approach anyway.
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<stylewarning>
hjudt: I still write my bindings manually
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<pjb>
metoo
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<neirac>
is there any db2 library ? I mostly need to interact with db2 on z/os
<random-nick>
why aren't LOOP's keywords interned in COMMON-LISP?
<djeis[m]>
They aren't interned anywhere, per-say.
<djeis[m]>
Loop's "keywords" aren't particular symbols, they're any symbol with the right name.
<random-nick>
yeah, but I'm wondering why aren't they interned in CL so you don't intern them in your package when you use loop
<random-nick>
that is, when you're using LOOP without keywords (as in symbols in KEYWORDS)
<djeis[m]>
Honestly? Design choice on the part of the original writers of the loop macro and I don't really understand.
<djeis[m]>
If I were to guess it's because that'd put a lot of symbols being exported from CL that don't actually have any bindings.
<djeis[m]>
Which would be a little weird.
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<pjb>
random-nick: note that you use loop in your source. So they're interned (if at all) when compiling, but not when loading and running.
<pjb>
And you can use keywords, or uninterned symbols: (loop #:for x #:in '(1 2 3) #:collect (* x x)) #| --> (1 4 9) |#
<pjb>
djeis[m]: it could seem weird, but there are other symbols in that case, eg INTERGER (well, it has a class and designates a type); but it would be nice since it would avoid problems when you define operators named with those symbols, and load packages exporting them after having used them in loops.
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<djeis[m]>
Fair enough.
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<pjb>
random-nick: that said, nothing prevents you to define a package exporting symbols with those names.
<random-nick>
pjb: shouldn't you be using :intern instead of :export?
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<pjb>
random-nick: :intern doesn't export. :export does intern.
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<aeth>
pjb: UIOP has uiop:define-package with a use-reexport
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<jackdaniel>
if anyone is interested how my quick fix for clx ended: it ended up with backporting some changes from cmu and fixing clx/demo examples, so if anyone feels like looking at bouncing balls - enjoy, they do work now (to some degree)
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<didi>
Heh. (aref (make-array 0) 0) => Invalid index 0 for (SIMPLE-VECTOR 0), should be a non-negative integer below 0.