* jasom
is secretly hoping that the issue will be the GC stopping the workd and drmeister will spend the next 6 months writing a state-of-the-art concurrent GC for clasp
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<didi>
Shouldn't (format nil "~{~}" '()) eval to an empty string?
<didi>
Also, (format nil "~{x~}" '(1)) in SBCL loops forever, with increasing RAM usage.
<verisimilitude>
You're missing an @, didi.
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<jasom>
didi: the second one should loop forever
<didi>
verisimilitude: Oh... right. I always miss it.
<jasom>
~{ means "continue until list is empty, consuming as many as wanted"
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<jasom>
IMO the only conforming thing to do with (format nil "~{~}" nil) is to return "" which is not what sbcl does. Be interesting to see if this has been discussed before
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<hectorhonn>
morning everyone
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<no-defun-allowed>
morning hectorhonn
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<beach>
jasom: Did you look at the chapter about garbage collection in the SICL specification?
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<mfiano>
Excuse me for not paying attention to the discussions here in a couple weeks, but has anyone noticed that the recent QL dist has a broken trivia system?
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<mfiano>
Sorry to bother. Updated SBCL and it seems to work now
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<phoe>
Morniiiing
<verisimilitude>
Hello, phoe.
<zigpaw>
morning :)
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<splittist>
Good morning #lisp!
<shrdlu68>
'Morning
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<phoe>
heyyyy
<shka_>
phoe: good morning
<ogamita>
jasom: all implementations seem to get ~{~} wrong.
<ogamita>
At least they're consistent. However, the consistency breaks at (format nil "~{~}" nil nil) where ccl keeps signaling an error.
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* heisig
wonders how many implementors already had a nervous breakdown at chapter 22 of the spec...
<jackdaniel>
heisig: for better or worse some implementations just took cmu's code for that and fixed over the years :)
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<jackdaniel>
(but chapter 22 is also about pretty printing and such - this is not part of cmu format)
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<splittist>
If the ~{~} is empty, then an argument is used as the contents. It must be a format control and precede any arguments processed by the iteration.
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<no-defun-allowed>
Chapter 22.3 is probably the most reread chapter in the clhs if I has to guess.
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<clintm>
(string #\1) -> "1" - Is there a related function that will give me the number 1?
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<jdz>
CHAR-DIGIT-P
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<jdz>
I mean DIGIT-CHAR-P
<jdz>
(digit-char-p #\F 16) ; => 15
<no-defun-allowed>
Digit-char.
<clintm>
thank you! I think I was mentally filtering out -p functions assuming they returned nil or t.
<jdz>
This is one of the cases where a function returns "generalized boolean".
<jackdaniel>
no-defun-allowed: no, digit-char returns a character, digit-char-p is the function
<no-defun-allowed>
What, what, it is that. My bad.
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<no-defun-allowed>
Well I never.
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<ogamita>
splittist: Ah right! ~{~} is like ~? (format nil "~{~}" "~A" '(42 33 b)) #| --> "4233b" |#
<ogamita>
So only ccl is conforming here :-)
<ogamita>
all predicates are allowed to return "useful" values. Only digit-char-p is specified to do so, IIRC.
<jackdaniel>
so in conforming CL code you may depend only on digit-char-p returning something useful
<jackdaniel>
becaue in other cases conforming implementations may behave differently
<jackdaniel>
because*
<ogamita>
Exactly.
<jackdaniel>
well, member too (except that it doesn't have -p suffix)
<ogamita>
Indeed.
<_death>
and string< and friends..
<ogamita>
and mismatch, etc. So, I was wrong: there are more than one predicate specified to return useful values.
<_death>
many sequence functions do
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<pfdietz>
Those predicates were so annoying when writing ansi-tests. Had to wrap (not (not ...)) around many forms to convert true to T.
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<_death>
(defun bool (x) (if x t nil))
<pfdietz>
I just defined notnot as a function.
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<pfdietz>
There are also cases where predicates returned different values depending on compilation. (typep x '(member x y z)) might return T if constant folded, or (X Y Z) if actually called with those arguments.
<pfdietz>
Is that a bug? Arguably yes, even if allowed by the standard.
<pfdietz>
(typep 'x '(member x y z))
<_death>
I think so too.. but at least you can write a constant-folded-p ;)
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<neirac>
I just found out about time function in common lisp to measure execution time, made my day
<hjudt>
hi! i am having a problem with the dbd-oracle library available from quicklisp. apparently, it is not thread-safe and causes sbcl to crash or report freaky memory corruptions. when using the same code with sqlite3 the problem goes away. does anyone know of alternatives?
<neirac>
jackadaniel this is truly awesome, I'm using ccl but I'll switch to sbcl :)
<hjudt>
i've used plain-odbc before, which uses the oracle oci binaries too in some way (the odbc part of it that is). it did cope well with multiple connections.
<p_l>
access to *foreign-resource-hash* should IMO also be synchronized, can be done with standard Bordeaux-Threads code
<p_l>
personally I think nobody ever tested this library with multiple threads
<hjudt>
p_l: i've used sbcl's (make-hash-table :synchronized t). but as you mentioned, this is probably not the only culprit.
<p_l>
so you end up with C code messing with itself, and if that causes an address written to by C code to suddenly point elsewhere because of a race condition on data structure... welll
<hjudt>
p_l: it also uses some special variables which could interfere when threading.
<p_l>
hjudt: depends on when the specials are bound
<p_l>
AFAIK most implementations have thread-local special stack
<hjudt>
i guess i will have to read up on oci docs if i want to try to fix this. unfortunately, this seems to be the only oracle library remaining for common lisp.
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<neirac>
I'm trying to use clack it was working fine in ccl but I changed to sbcl and trying to load it gives me: Retry compiling #<IRONCLAD-SOURCE-FILE "ironclad" "src" "common">.
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<p_l>
hjudt: OCI will be generally fine if you pass OCI_THREADED to OCIEnvCreate afaik
<p_l>
hjudt: just also make sure that access to lisp-side structures is synchronized properly
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<scymtym>
neirac: some ironclad versions and sbcl versions don't work together. unfortunately, the easiest solution is upgrading both to the newest released versions
<hjudt>
p_l: thanks, i will look into this and see what i can achieve, though i am not sure i have enough experience to fix it. nevertheless it is worth a try.
<neirac>
scymtym thanks a lot I'll do thaat
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<jasom>
splittist: thanks! I totally missed that.
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<jasom>
so (format nil "~{ ~}" nil) => ""
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<Xach>
neirac: do you see the backtrace in the log?
<neirac>
Xach is there a log ?
<neirac>
Xach I did not know, awesome
<Xach>
neirac: i don't know if you need to turn it on or not, but it can be very helpful.
<neirac>
Xach thanks I'll check how to do it.
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<Xach>
neirac: what do you get if try (return-cheapest "bob") or something?
<Xach>
It can help to test all your components by just running them
<Xach>
neirac: here's a fun thing you can do: (map 'vector (lambda (x y) (cons x y)) names prices) can be changed to (map 'vector 'cons names prices)
<sjl_>
Does anyone have any experience using RESTART-CASE's :test along with HANDLER-BIND? I can't understand how I'm supposed to used the two together.
<sjl_>
So in bar, I want to offer a restart IGNORE-BORKED if there's an error of type BORK inside foo, but not for any other error (e.g. division by zero)
<sjl_>
Using :test borkp there works great, and I can see in the debugger that I only get the restart offered to me when the error is from the bork. I don't get it if I pass 0. Perfect.
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<sjl_>
But then when I try to use handler-bind to invoke that restart programatically, it says there's no IGNORE-BORKED restart active.
<neirac>
Xach thanks, for checking the code !,that line shows that I'm a beginner :)
<sjl_>
If I remove the :test from restart case, I *can* invoke the restart with the handler-bind, but then I also get it offered to me when it's not applicable
<Xach>
sjl_: i have not tried that option
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<Xach>
neirac: does return-cheapest work if you call it directly?
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<Bike>
that's a humdinger, sjl
<Bike>
i wonder if using invoke-restart like that means the knowledge of what condition is in play is lost
<sjl_>
This happens in both SBCL and CCL so it must be something I just haven't wrapped my head around
<Bike>
also clasp, not that you care about clasp
<sjl_>
I mean, I care about it as another data point that it's not an implementation bug, heh
<Bike>
in clasp/ecl, invoke-restart calls find-restart, which is probably pretty normal
<Bike>
find-restart is a standard function and takes an optional condition argument
<sjl_>
Sure
<Bike>
i think if you don't provide the condition, find-restart doesn't like, get it
<Bike>
it doesn't have a condition to test
<Bike>
so you could workaround with (invoke-restart (find-restart 'ignore-borked c)), let's see if that works
<neirac>
Xach yes, it works
<Bike>
hmm. weirder error now
<sjl_>
Bike: wow, yes, that works
<sjl_>
good god
<Bike>
i think this might be an implementation bug
<dim>
(reason why you might care: 100% Common Lisp implementation)
<Bike>
it's an inconvenient interface, though
<sjl_>
I guess. ugh.
<scymtym>
sjl_: could this be the problem (from the RESTART-CASE page): "If the restartable-form is a list whose car is any of the symbols signal, error, cerror, or warn (or is a macro form which macroexpands into such a list), then with-condition-restarts is used implicitly to associate the indicated restarts with the condition to be signaled. "
<scymtym>
tripped me up multiple times
<dim>
IOW: hey, here's the kind of project you can implement all by yourself when using CL, here's how much user experience improvements you can actually code because everything is suddenly made easy by the language ;-)
<JordiGH>
I don't know what does it mean for an exercise to adapted to lisp, though.
<JordiGH>
advent of code has pretty generic exercises.
<JordiGH>
They start out easy, like, read a list of numbers and add them all up.
<sjl_>
I've done a bunch of Project Euler, Advent of Code, and Rosalind in Common Lisp. CL works fine for all of them (and I've found it especially good for Euler)
<jasom>
JordiGH: I use emacs just for SLIME (the lisp IDE) and use vim for everything else.
<JordiGH>
At ILC 2014, everyone raised their hands when asked if they use Emacs.
<kdridi>
I'll check that, thks
<sjl_>
Project Euler will teach you math, though, not Lisp.
<JordiGH>
Speaking of which, nobody's offered to host another ILC yet?
<kdridi>
tottaly agree
<nirved>
neirac: in your case in defroute name is a symbol, while return-cheapest expects a string
<kdridi>
hum... for example, I'm looking for "exercises" that's ask to to create macro and do metaprogrammation
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<sjl_>
Someone should write a Learn Common Lisp the Hard Way that's just a long workbook of exercises in gradually-increasing difficulty, exploring various parts of the language.
<kdridi>
sjl_ yes!
<Xof>
really?
<Xof>
that sounds fun
<Xof>
would anyone actually buy that?
<sjl_>
1449 bought the one like that I did for Vimscript (even though it's also completely free online)
<sjl_>
so... maybe?
<sjl_>
though CL is probably a smaller audience than Vim users
<jasom>
There is a Learn Lisp the Hard Way, but it didn't really follow the LXtHW template.
<verisimilitude>
Yes, but it's easier to exit Common Lisp than Vim, sjl.
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<jasom>
verisimilitude: The variable QUIT is unbound.
<sjl_>
PAIP and Gentle both have lots of exercises, but also lots of other content too
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<Xof>
well, who knows? If I need some kind of spare time project, I can add that to the list
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<neirac>
nirved awesome thank you very much I'll add catch-errors
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<neirac>
nirved I don't understand the last thing you said return-cheapest I'm passing name I'm assuming that's a string http://localhost:9006/prices/meat -> "meat" is the parameter to return-cheapest, that's my assumption.
<nirved>
neirac: to get a string you could use (symbol-name name)
<nirved>
neirac: please note, that the list of products returned by the site can be incomplete, and the cheapest one might be missing (not yet loaded by the page)
<neirac>
nirved awesome! I lost like 2 days on this. thank you very much now it works
<nirved>
neirac: you might be better by calling the api directly instead of parsing html - it returns json
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<nirved>
and allows different types of ordering
<neirac>
nirved oh, never realized that one, I just was creating web-scrapper. I did not check an api existed. you check the html ?
<neirac>
nirved which is the api?. I'm trying to create to do groceries more informed
<nirved>
neirac: if you open the network log in a browser, and then select the desired ordering in the page, you'd get the api request somewhere at the end
<neirac>
nirved thank you very much!!
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<drmeister>
What's the relationship between quicklisp and ASDF - does quicklisp always compile it's own version of ASDF or can it use one from the system?
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<jasom>
drmeister: it will compile and load its own unless 1: ASDF is already present and new enough, 2: (require 'asdf) works and is new enough