phoe changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <http://cliki.net/> <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/> | SBCL 1.4.14, CMUCL 21b, ECL 16.1.3, CCL 1.11.5, ABCL 1.5.0
lavaflow has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
lavaflow has joined #lisp
Josh_2 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
Mr-Potter has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
Essadon has quit [Quit: Qutting]
Oladon has joined #lisp
karlosz has quit [Quit: karlosz]
jason_m has joined #lisp
robdog has joined #lisp
robdog has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
atgreen has joined #lisp
igemnace_ is now known as igemnace
Arcaelyx has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com]
sjl has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.2-dev]
robdog has joined #lisp
robdog has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
markoong has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
mathpacka has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
mathpacka has joined #lisp
iovec has joined #lisp
robdog has joined #lisp
milanj has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
robdog has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
robdog has joined #lisp
robdog has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
quazimodo has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
Kundry_Wag has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
xkapastel has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
sjl has joined #lisp
quazimodo has joined #lisp
FreeBirdLjj has joined #lisp
dale has quit [Quit: dale]
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
FreeBirdLjj has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
iAmDecim has joined #lisp
iAmDecim has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
robdog has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
robdog has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
robdog has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
mathpacka has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
robdog has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
robdog has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
robdog has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
robdog has joined #lisp
abhixec has joined #lisp
jason_m has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<LdBeth> gooa evening
Kundry_Wag has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
robdog has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
anewuser has joined #lisp
robdog has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
iAmDecim has joined #lisp
Oladon has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
robdog has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
dale has joined #lisp
mathpacka has joined #lisp
moei has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
dddddd has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
zotan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
zotan has joined #lisp
jeosol has joined #lisp
<jeosol> morning guys
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
zotan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
zotan has joined #lisp
Khisanth has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
dtornabene has joined #lisp
<mathpacka> so I have an issue with packages in lisp, I install a package close emacs, then it vanishes, open emacs have to reinstall the package, I just installed emacs/sbcl/quicklisp/slime and I think the "quicklisp" folder is getting confused with the "(dot).quicklisp" folder
<jeosol> it shouldn't be the case normally if quicklisp is set up correctly
<mathpacka> I changed where it was pointing to, and that's helped, but it's still loosing packages
<mathpacka> so I have to run (ql:quickload :trivial-gamekit) before I can run (load "test.lisp") every time i run it, that's not normal is it?
Khisanth has joined #lisp
<pjb> mathpacka: you forgot to save the image, and then to launch the saved image, instead of the original lisp.
<pjb> mathpacka: but usually people just reload whatever then need in their new session.
abhixec has quit [Quit: restarting]
robdog has joined #lisp
rumbler31 has joined #lisp
<mathpacka> oh, ok
<pjb> mathpacka: that's why I keep using loader files. Files named loader.lisp that perform all the ql:quickloading required and other initialization I want for each project. Then I have a repl command named ll (or a symbol-macro) that runs (load "loader.lisp")
<mathpacka> ok, great, that was driving me crazy, thanks!
abhixec has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
robdog has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
<pjb> mathpacka: also, you can just never quit emacs. This is just what I do. I boot linux, and never quit emacs, until linux crashes. (which may occur a couple of times every ten years).
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
<mathpacka> ok
<pjb> On macOS: (emacs-uptime) "Up 12d 6h 41m 0s (Fri 2019-01-18 22:14:05), 45 buffers, 4 files"
<pjb> On linux: (emacs-uptime) "Up 75d 13h 45m 13s (Fri 2018-11-16 15:10:56), 24 buffers, 6 files"
<mathpacka> hehe, nice
<pjb> Actually, emacs updates occur more often than me quitting emacs usually.
<beach> Good morning everyone!
<jeosol> morning beach
<jeosol> haven't been here for a while due to recent move. how is the SICL project going?
<beach> jeosol: Bike is working on improving the intermediate language of the Cleavir compiler. And heisig is working on creating fast generic versions of the sequence functions, and in the process implemented sealing.
<beach> My own work is stalled because of ELS submissions. Once we submit our papers (which are SICL related, of course) I'll be working on code generation.
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
<jeosol> very nice. I hope I can contribute to this effort one when I am fully settled
<beach> That would be great!
<jeosol> thanks for the update. Appreciated
<beach> What contribution do you have in mind?
<jeosol> Not sure, you had sent me a list of topics in the past, but I then started to relocated, so lost track
<pillton> beach: What is sealing?
Oladon has joined #lisp
<jeosol> I am not a compiler or language expert, but mostly I focus on application and utilities. Maybe I could learn some of the former concepts from the project
<beach> pillton: Restricting things like inheritance and method additions for certain classes.
<beach> jeosol: Sounds good.
<beach> pillton: The idea is to define the sequence functions as generic functions, but to avoid the generic dispatch if the sequence is a list or a vector.
<pillton> That is what specialization-store is for.
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
<beach> Right. Maybe you should talk to him about what it can do.
mathrick has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<aeth> Oh that would be amazing, to see an implementation use specialization-store for the sequence functions like we in the community have to for everything else.
<aeth> Ideally that could lead to some major improvements
rumbler31 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<aeth> s/for the sequence functions/for the built-in sequence functions/
<pillton> The really hard part is macros for iterating over elements in a container.
<beach> pillton: What do you mean?
robdog has joined #lisp
<pillton> beach: You should be able to write (for ((item (the container arbitrary-container))) (my-function item)) for any type of container and have the macro generate efficient code. For arrays that would mean no range checks and no dereferencing displaced arrays when retrieving items.
<beach> That part has been done, at least for the standard sequence classes. It's in our paper from a few years back.
<pillton> I'll have to read the paper again. I thought what I was working on went further than what was mentioned in the paper.
mathrick has joined #lisp
<pillton> Right. I presume for-each-releavant-* inspects the environment to get the type?
anewuser has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<beach> For the vector types? No, each implementation just defines the macro so that every vector class is mentioned.
<pillton> Oh. It is defined for vector types.
rumbler31 has joined #lisp
<pillton> For arrays with rank greater than 1 you have to use row-major-aref for element access.
<beach> Those are not sequences, though.
<pillton> I know, but there are problems where you need to iterate over elements and or subsets. e.g. (for ((item (column (the (array double-float (* *)) array) 1))) ...)
<beach> I can imagine that. But the SICL sequence functions don't have that as a goal.
<pillton> The macro I was working on could interpret the container form and generate efficient code.
<beach> Great!
robdog has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
<pillton> Restricting yourself to the builtin containers makes sense. Opening it up to generic containers requires a bit of thought on the consequences. I have documented an initial attempt at this problem here https://github.com/markcox80/template-function/wiki/Motivating-the-Template-Function-System .
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
akoana has left #lisp ["Leaving"]
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
jeosol has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<beach> Looks good. You should definitely talk to heisig about what you have done. If there is something we can add to SICL to make things easier to implement, or faster, we should consider it.
<pillton> Ok.
<beach> Since we are in control of how environments are represented (as first-class global environments), it is easy to add new things.
<pillton> Well, there is the argument that all of what is done in template-function could be done in HIR/MIR.
<beach> Hmm, yes, I see.
<beach> Some people fear that that technique would be slow.
<beach> Or, *is* slow, because we do things like that now.
<beach> Like for arithmetic, we just inline the full dispatch code. Then we let the type inferencer prune it.
<pillton> People fear templates in C++ as well. Template-function is very close to C++ templates.
<beach> I see.
<pillton> I have no problem with compilers that do that.
<beach> That do what? What SICL does now?
<beach> Or what template-functions do?
<pillton> I was referring to inlining the full dispatch code. You can always introduce (locally (declare (optimize take-as-long-as-you-want)) ...).
<beach> Yes.
<beach> But then you have clients like Clasp that will see their build times increase. :(
<pillton> Right.
<beach> Anyway, I need to concentrate on getting SICL working, so I need to delegate some stuff. Maybe you and heisig can think of this together?
<pillton> Sure. I'll get in contact with him/her.
<beach> Once I have things working, I will definitely revisit optimizations and such, so I might get back to it, but that's not imminent.
<beach> him
esrse has joined #lisp
<beach> Marco Heisig.
<beach> He will be at ELS in case you want to discuss with him in person. :)
<beach> He is also a regular visitor to our home. We can have a week of brainstorming here. :)
<pillton> I'd love to go.
Bike has quit [Quit: leaving]
<beach> Oh, and #sicl is the main place for SICL-specific stuff, so as to avoid boring the #lisp people.
<beach> But maybe you have channel overload already.
<pillton> (Sorry. I was thinking about our discussion.) I think the problem boils down to finding the right balance between normal order reduction and applicative order reduction.
<beach> Hmm. That does sound like an interesting characterization.
<pillton> If I joined #sicl I'd probably get no work done.
<pillton> I have for years been trying to decide whether I want to cross over the line and wade through compiler design and implementation.
quazimodo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<beach> I fully understand.
<beach> SICL is (in my opinion, of course) a unique opportunity to create a modern Common Lisp implementation from scratch, so if we have new ideas on how to make it fast while still keeping it highly maintainable, this is the time to do it. Just to give you more information to help you decide. :)
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
pierpal has quit [Quit: Poof]
Oladon has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
pierpal has joined #lisp
FreeBirdLjj has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
FreeBirdLjj has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
Inline has quit [Quit: Leaving]
makomo has joined #lisp
prite has joined #lisp
dtornabene has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
dale has quit [Quit: dale]
jprajzne has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
matijja has joined #lisp
shka_ has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
esrse has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
zmt01 has joined #lisp
zmt00 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
igemnace has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
igemnace has joined #lisp
karlosz has joined #lisp
rumbler31 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shifty has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
FreeBirdLjj has joined #lisp
figurehe4d has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
figurehe4d has joined #lisp
abhixec has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
nowhereman has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
FreeBirdLjj has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
mathpacka has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
mathpacka has joined #lisp
longshi has joined #lisp
Necktwi has joined #lisp
dtornabene has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
shrdlu68 has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
FreeBirdLjj has joined #lisp
longshi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
rozenglass has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
FreeBirdLjj has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
Krystof has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<shrdlu68> This is pretty neat, has anyone had success running it? https://www.cliki.net/Epilog%20System%20and%20Episodic%20Logic
<shrdlu68> Can't get past the compilation step in the README.
r13l has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
scymtym has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
Freso_znc has joined #lisp
shka__ has joined #lisp
Freso_znc has left #lisp [#lisp]
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
varjag has joined #lisp
heisig has joined #lisp
scymtym has joined #lisp
longshi has joined #lisp
spoeplau has joined #lisp
edgar-rft has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<jackdaniel> beach: I thought you loathe the word "modern" :-)
<jackdaniel> [nb: many implementations are continously "modernized", not only "maintained"]
<jackdaniel> pillton: since SICL uses full CL as its host language working on implementing it should be quite pleasent and not much different than working on other Common Lisp applications
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
<shka__> hello
<shka__> CL is just pretty decent language to build compiler with
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
<beach> Hmm, I can't find ELS2019 on EasyChair. I must be doing something wrong. Any ideas?
<beach> Never mind. Got it.
<beach> jackdaniel: Thanks for encouraging pillton. :)
Mr-Potter has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
shifty has joined #lisp
karlosz has quit [Quit: karlosz]
Kaisyu has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
kajo has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
marusich has joined #lisp
scottj has left #lisp [#lisp]
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
dtornabene has quit [Quit: Leaving]
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
Josh_2 has joined #lisp
edgar-rft has joined #lisp
dddddd has joined #lisp
marusich has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
orivej_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
runejuhl has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
edgar-rft has quit [Quit: Leaving]
xkapastel has joined #lisp
atgreen_ has joined #lisp
edgar-rft has joined #lisp
q3d has joined #lisp
atgreen has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
Lord_of_Life_ has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
ebrasca has joined #lisp
Lord_of_Life has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
amerlyq has joined #lisp
arbv has quit [Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in]
figurehe4d has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
gxt has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.3]
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
Krystof has joined #lisp
runejuhl has joined #lisp
m00natic has joined #lisp
soyeomul^bionic has joined #lisp
robdog has joined #lisp
milanj has joined #lisp
<soyeomul^bionic> my computer is arm64 chromebook, is it possible test cmucl in my computer?
robdog has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
<jackdaniel> soyeomul^bionic: afaik cmucl doesn't have support for arm architecture
<jackdaniel> sbcl (which is cmucl fork) does support arm32 and arm64 architectures (fwiw arm32 doesn't have threads - alternatives are ecl and ccl (probably abcl too) which both support threads on that platform)
<jackdaniel> soyeomul^bionic: here are supported platforms: https://www.common-lisp.net/project/cmucl/platforms
heisig has quit [Quit: Leaving]
robdog has joined #lisp
robdog has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
markoong has joined #lisp
nowhereman has joined #lisp
scymtym has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
robdog has joined #lisp
orivej has joined #lisp
varjag has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
robdog has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
bendersteed has joined #lisp
<soyeomul^bionic> thanks but there is no arm64 cmucl. it's not good.
<beach> soyeomul^bionic: Why do you need CMUCL?
<soyeomul^bionic> because Gmane back-end server made in CMUCL.
<soyeomul^bionic> so i need to study cmucl on my chromebook(arm64)
<shka__> non portable?
<soyeomul^bionic> sorry i do not understand your words, english is not mother language
<jackdaniel> soyeomul^bionic: mentioned compilers all implement same standard (Common Lisp). If this server is made with CMUCL, then it is very likely it doesn't require much work to port it to other implementations too
<beach> soyeomul^bionic: Do you know what CMUCL-specific functionality it requires?
longshi has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<soyeomul^bionic> jackdaniel: i get understand your words, thanks, so i try with SBCL? SBCL have ARM64.
<soyeomul^bionic> beach: sorry i do not know about that, i am newbie
<jackdaniel> soyeomul^bionic: yes, please try sbcl. it is the most similar to cmucl (since it is its fork)
nowhereman has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
<soyeomul^bionic> Thanks jackdaniel, my problem now solved. thanks again,,,
soyeomul^bionic has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.1)]
<jackdaniel> great :)
anewuser has joined #lisp
neirac has joined #lisp
Josh_2 has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.1)]
robdog has joined #lisp
nowhereman has joined #lisp
igemnace has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.3]
Bike has joined #lisp
emar has joined #lisp
kajo has joined #lisp
longshi has joined #lisp
scymtym has joined #lisp
jprajzne has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
atgreen_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
kajo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
kajo has joined #lisp
shrdlu68 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.3]
Josh_2 has joined #lisp
arutai has joined #lisp
<phoe> I've asked this question once but I forgot the answer
<phoe> How can I find the method that will be called if I'd call a GF with given arguments?
<phoe> Like, I want to find the PRINT-OBJECT method that gets called if I pass it arguments :FOO *STANDARD-OUTPUT*.
<jackdaniel> phoe: compute-applicable-methods-using-classes or compute-effective-method-function
<phoe> jackdaniel: got it!
<phoe> (compute-applicable-methods #'print-object `(:foo ,*standard-output*))
<phoe> thanks
CrazyEddy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
cage_ has joined #lisp
anewuser has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
CrazyEddy has joined #lisp
anewuser has joined #lisp
nowhereman has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
atgreen_ has joined #lisp
sjl_ has joined #lisp
TMA has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
TMA has joined #lisp
dale_ has joined #lisp
dale_ is now known as dale
<phoe> Now this is the kind of stuff I like seeing
<shka__> phoe: bravo
rippa has joined #lisp
longshi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<phoe> Please review the hell of this PR.
metalrat has joined #lisp
nowhereman has joined #lisp
bendersteed has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
<dlowe> phoe: it looks like you're keeping the local nicknames as strings, but it might be better to store them as symbols, maybe even in an internal package
<dlowe> Looking at the string= in nfasload.lisp:368
<phoe> dlowe: would it be faster? Hmm.
<phoe> I guess so, yes.
<dlowe> well, you'd be using eql instead of string=
<phoe> On the other hand, if it's a string, then %find-pkg is called.
<phoe> Which nonetheless does string equality, just with an explicit loop.
<dlowe> Yeah, I'm just looking at the commit without knowing the bigger picture
<phoe> Yes - you are right about it
<phoe> I wonder if that internal package wouldn't grow too big though
<dlowe> nice set of restarts in add-package-local-nickname
matijja has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<phoe> dlowe: thank you, I shamelessly copied it from SBCL
scymtym has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
<dlowe> haha
<dlowe> well, if n packages declared m local nicknames, it would contain n x m symbols
<phoe> ADD-PACKAGE-LOCAL-NICKNAME, REMOVE-PACKAGE-LOCAL-NICKNAME, PACKAGE-LOCAL-NICKNAMES and PACKAGE-LOCALLY-NICKNAMED-BY-LIST were copied from SBCL and adapted to CCL's package system.
<phoe> dlowe: yes, and now you delete these n packages
<phoe> do you unintern the names from the package?
<phoe> if yes, how do you check if it can be deleted?
<phoe> s/it/a particular name/
orivej has joined #lisp
<dlowe> it doesn't seem like that many symbols to me, potentially
<phoe> I don't disagree with you - I just wonder if it wouldn't bring more/different
<phoe> ...different issues
prite has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
nowhereman has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
nowhereman has joined #lisp
<dlowe> The image I'm running right now has 160 packages, if each of them had 15 local nicknames, that would be 2400 symbols
<phoe> which would also be less in case the local nicknames aren't all unique
<phoe> I'd assume nickname "F" in ten different packages would map to one internal symbol named "F"
<dlowe> this is an implementation detail that could be done later, mabye
<dlowe> I might try to run ansi-tests for the package section to make sure you didn't break anything.
<dlowe> but I don't see anything else
<phoe> dlowe: please do, that'll also verify that you can build it.
<phoe> I'll run it in a minure
<phoe> minute
<shka__> phoe: it would be nice to add some check-type here and there
<shka__> it makes code slightly easier to understand
<dlowe> haha. I meant "if this were my PR, I might try..."
<phoe> dlowe: (:
<phoe> Sure, I'm running them now
<phoe> shka__: could you pinpoint these places?
<phoe> CCL is a code soup with a lot of spaghetti - refactoring and documenting it in general would be a lot of joy for multiple people
<phoe> But I see your point - please pinpoint the places in the GitHub review
<shka__> could you please paste the link once again?
<shka__> sorry to bother you…
<phoe> nah, I'm here to be bothered
<shka__> thanks
<phoe> =============== All tests succeeded ===============
<phoe> dlowe: ^
<dlowe> *cheer*
<shka__> phoe: done
<phoe> shka__: thanks, added it to the TODO list.
<shka__> great
<shka__> as i said, it is somewhat out of scope of this task, but i think it would be acceptable to go ahead with this addition anyway
<phoe> Yes, I'll want to do that
<phoe> Let's make this code cleaner than it was
neirac has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
<phoe> I need to run now - back in 90mins
metalrat has left #lisp [#lisp]
<phoe> For now - if anyone is able to follow the bootstrapping steps I have written, please do it
<phoe> I want to be sure that it builds for anyone else than me
iAmDecim has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
varjag has joined #lisp
iAmDecim has joined #lisp
iAmDecim has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
arutai has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
anewuser has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
anewuser has joined #lisp
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Zaab1t has joined #lisp
rumbler31 has joined #lisp
rumbler31 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
JetJej has joined #lisp
neirac has joined #lisp
Inline has joined #lisp
m00natic has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
anewuser has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
anewuser has joined #lisp
varjag has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
cage_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
terpri_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
cage_ has joined #lisp
nowhereman has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
anewuser has quit [Quit: anewuser]
orivej has joined #lisp
iAmDecim has joined #lisp
varjag has joined #lisp
TMA has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
<beach> Does it make sense to supply an IGNORE or IGNORABLE declaration for a special variable or a global function?
random-nick has joined #lisp
TMA has joined #lisp
<makomo> beach: i think i've seen cl-ppcre use a special variable in one function's lambda-list, with a comment saying that that indeed dynamically binds the variable
<makomo> so in that context, perhaps it might make sense?
<makomo> but since i've never tried that technique (i.e. have no proof that it works), maybe my recollection is wrong
<verisimilitude> I'd rather declare something such as IGNORABLE where it's actually IGNORABLE and not globally, beach.
<makomo> but intuitively, i would expect it to work
<Bike> "When not within the scope of a ignore or ignorable declaration, it is desirable for a compiler to issue a warning about any var for which there is neither a for-value reference nor a special declaration, or about any fn for which there is no for-value reference." oh huh
<Bike> apparently you can have free ignore/able declarations, though. weird
<beach> Yeah, that's a bit strange.
<beach> Well, SBCL warns when there is an IGNORE declaration of a special variable.
<beach> Similarly for global functions.
<beach> So it does not make sense. In other words, the compiler does not have to store information about such declarations.
q3d has quit [Quit: Page closed]
prite has joined #lisp
terpri has joined #lisp
<beach> Not it does make sense for local macros and symbol macros, right?
<makomo> Bike: what does "free" mean in that context? empty?
<beach> Not bound.
<makomo> what does it mean for a declaration to be free?
<beach> That it is not bound. Look it up in the glossary.
<makomo> oh i see
<beach> makomo: Since a binding of a special variable can affect the meaning of code outside the scope of the form that introduced the binding, it doesn't make much sense to declare it ignore in that form.
<makomo> beach: indeed
<beach> Anyway, time to go fix dinner for my (admittedly small) family.
<makomo> and SBCL does warn about that case as well
<pjb> beach: it depends. À-priori, a ignore or ignorable declaration on a special variable would not be useful, since it's assumed the variable might be used by the called functions. But if the called functions don't use it, it might be meaningful to declare a special variable ignorable or ignore. But in this case we should get a warning that we made a useless binding!
<pjb> beach: therefore I would say that ignore or ignorable on special variable is not sensical.
<pjb> Similarly, in absence of a tree-shaker, global functions may be used eventually. Declaring it ignore, would mean that we can just forget it because it won't be used ever. So why did we define it?
neirac has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
<makomo> pjb: but there's no 100% way to check whether a function uses a dynamic variable or not, right?
<makomo> the function could use all sorts of runtime tricks
<pjb> makomo: define use. We can check if the function uses it directly, not if it uses it thru one of the function called.
<pjb> makomo: also, most functions called by a function can be redefined at run-time, so we cannot be sure at compilation time of anything.
<makomo> oh i see, i misread your first sentence, woops
<makomo> yeah, makes sense
varjag has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.1)]
fkac has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Xach has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
spoeplau has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
akoana has joined #lisp
karlosz has joined #lisp
pvaneynd has joined #lisp
Xach has joined #lisp
phoe has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
phoe has joined #lisp
wigust- has joined #lisp
<phoe> shka_: CHECK-TYPEs added to CCL in 50135c8
wigust has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
ravenousmoose has joined #lisp
drl has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
shifty has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
karlosz has quit [Quit: karlosz]
gxt has joined #lisp
mrcom has joined #lisp
msb has quit [Quit: ENOENT]
msb has joined #lisp
msb has left #lisp [#lisp]
tarptaeya has joined #lisp
Zaabtop has joined #lisp
Zaabtop1 has joined #lisp
Zaabtop1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Zaabtop has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
milanj has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
Zaab1t has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
cage_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
figurehe4d has joined #lisp
rippa has quit [Quit: {#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER]
Zaab1t has joined #lisp
<iovec> hey, in quicklisp i see that i can clone the thing in ~/quicklisp/local-projcets and then quickload works, but it doesn't download it on its own when I do that directly, how can I know what's wrong
<iovec> I'm using sbcl
atgreen_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<Bike> You mean you get a "system nto found" kind of error?
<Bike> from (ql:quickload :clx-truetype)
<iovec> yes
<Bike> could you paste the specific error? on pastebin or something.
<phoe> (ql:quickload :clx-truetype) works on my machine
<iovec> ((LABELS QUICKLISP-CLIENT::RECURSE :IN QUICKLISP-CLIENT::COMPUTE-LOAD-STRATEGY) "clx-truetype") source: (CERROR "Try again" 'SYSTEM-NOT-FOUND :NAME NAME)
milanj has joined #lisp
<iovec> there isn't anything more to it, just the debugger invoked on that error, that's all I get...
<Bike> you get a backtrace, no?
<phoe> iovec: (ql:update-all-dists)
<phoe> then try loading it
<iovec> Bike: nothing more than #<THREAD "main thread" RUNNING {10005D05B3}>: System "clx-truetype" not found
<iovec> phoe: NIL
<iovec> 0 dists to check
<phoe> iovec: your QL installation is screwed up.
<phoe> remove ~/quicklisp/ and reinstall.
tarptaeya has left #lisp ["Konversation terminated!"]
<iovec> phoe: cheers, it works now
<phoe> <3
<Bike> that was quick
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
fortitude has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Zaab1t has quit [Quit: bye bye friends]
LiamH has joined #lisp
pjb has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.1)]
atgreen has joined #lisp
pierpal has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
atgreen has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ravenousmoose is now known as ravenousmoose[aw
varjag has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
<shka_> phoe: thanks
drolax has joined #lisp
ravenousmoose[aw has quit [Quit: Taking a quick nap...ZZzzz]
<phoe> shka_: thank you too
Essadon has joined #lisp
scymtym has joined #lisp
<shka_> phoe: i am just glad i could help you even a little bit
Denommus has joined #lisp
<phoe> shka_: you're not helping me, you're helping CCL users
meepdeew has joined #lisp
<shka_> well, good
<shka_> anyway, dear #lisp, does anybody have A* algorithm written in lisp somewhere? Can I have it?
longshi has joined #lisp
robdog has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
<phoe> that's what google gives me, I have no idea how it works
prite has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
<dlowe> I do. Hold on.
<dlowe> no warranty is made, etc, etc
<Josh_2> can I dynamically change keywords to in loop based on the type of an input?
<Josh_2> Or is there a generic keyword to access vectors and lists
<phoe> Josh_2: not really
<phoe> IN/ON is for lists, ACROSS is for vectors
<phoe> the best you can do is (loop for i below (length sequence) for elt = (elt i sequence) ...)
Essadon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
Denommus has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
pfdietz has joined #lisp
<shka_> phoe, dlowe: thanks!
<pfdietz> Or, use ITERATE
<shka_> dlowe: your code looks prett neat
<shka_> thanks!
<shka_> you even (closed-nodes '()) instead of nil
<shka_> which i always forget
<Josh_2> phoe: thanks
<shka_> Josh_2: there is a cl:map function
<shka_> which works on both lists and vectors
<shka_> often it is the best option to just use it
<Josh_2> Uhm probably will work
<Josh_2> forgot about map as I was just modifying another function work with different types of input
<shka_> Josh_2: care to short original code?
<Josh_2> only works with vectors atm but trying to change so it will accept lists as well
<shka_> i see
<shka_> there is a better way to do it though
<Josh_2> What's that?
<shka_> one second
pfdietz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
<shka_> as you can see, there is no need for map or anything like that
<Josh_2> But thats the same thing but position is mapping instead right?
<phoe> shka_: "00000102345"
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<shka_> phoe: damn!
<shka_> you right
<shka_> sorry
<shka_> i feel so stupid
<shka_> Josh_2: ignore this code please
<shka_> i should go to sleep
<shka_> phoe: oh no, this should be fine
<shka_> :test-not
<shka_> not :test
<shka_> so it will search for non zero at the end
<shka_> not for zero
<shka_> roller caster of emotions xD
<shka_> or not
<shka_> phoe: now i don't understand what i did wrong
<shka_> ah, it will return offset from start even when :from-end is t
<shka_> well, makes sense
phoe has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
<shka_> Josh_2: having said that, i really should leave computer alone, i am not really productive
<Josh_2> dw about it :)
<Josh_2> Thanks for trying to help
<shka_> Josh_2: you can figure this out, though, right?
<Josh_2> I can
<Josh_2> (if (equal (type-of sequence)) xD
<shka_> you can find position from end, then you should handle 3 cases, if position is null, return empty sequence, if it is zero return original sequence, if it is non-zero use subesquence
<shka_> that is a bit aggressive
<shka_> drewc: ideally position should be used, test should be supplied as test argument etc
<shka_> but i guess this will do the trick
longshi has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
<drewc> That is using position.
<shka_> position-if
<drewc> yes, because we want a non-0 char
<shka_> position should be more handy here
<Josh_2> drewc: Well that's a neat solution :)
<drewc> why?
<shka_> drewc: :test-not
<shka_> but otherwise ok
<drewc> true, that works.
meepdeew has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<p_l> drewc: ! Long time no see :-)
<drewc> It's also not needed, the LET, if we do not care about always giving a subseq
<shka_> good night all
<Josh_2> night shka_
<drewc> p_l: Been Gerbil'izing these days, not a lot of CL.
meepdeew has joined #lisp
<drewc> 15 years as a CLispnik, moved on :)
drolax has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
notzmv has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
meepdeew has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
longshi has joined #lisp
ravenousmoose has joined #lisp
ravenousmoose has quit [Client Quit]
shka_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
gigetoo has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
phoe has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
gxt has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.3]
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
varjag has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
JetJej has quit [Disconnected by services]
quazimodo has joined #lisp
gigetoo has joined #lisp
longshi has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
iovec has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
Josh_2 has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.1)]
pjb has joined #lisp
ravenousmoose has joined #lisp
ravenousmoose has quit [Client Quit]
quazimodo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
sjl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Kaisyu has joined #lisp
quazimodo has joined #lisp
karlosz has joined #lisp
notzmv has joined #lisp
karlosz has quit [Quit: karlosz]
random-nick has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
Arcaelyx has joined #lisp
Kaisyu7 has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.1)]
quazimodo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Kaisyu7 has joined #lisp
quazimodo has joined #lisp
ravenousmoose has joined #lisp
ravenousmoose has quit [Client Quit]
Lord_of_Life_ has joined #lisp
Lord_of_Life has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
Mr-Potter has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
shifty has joined #lisp
AroPar has joined #lisp
AroPar has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
karlosz has joined #lisp
Bike_ has joined #lisp
Bike has quit [Disconnected by services]
Bike_ is now known as Bike
edgar-rft has quit [Quit: Leaving]
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp