* |3b|
thinks interpreting NIL as "use the default" would have been a reasonable choice to specify though, seems like i want to pass keys from other functions more often than i want to notice i have a NIL
<pjb>
You're happy, this is what is implemented.
<|3b|>
and both duplicating defaults and checking for provided argument and building an arglist to APPLY are annoying
<_death>
write a CDR for it
<|3b|>
nah, that just encourages me to write technically nonconforming code that may break randomly at any point in the future. not exactly a source of 'happy' :/
<pjb>
It says that some conforming code can be non-conforming!
<pjb>
Obviously that code is not conforming.
<|3b|>
nah, just says it can detect implementation dependent behavior
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<|3b|>
it is conforming as long as it doesn't care what the results are
<|3b|>
same way #+foo(...) is conforming
<pjb>
(defun add-some (x) (defun add-some (x) (+ x 2)) (+ x 1)) (mapcar 'add-some '(1 2 3 4))
<pjb>
Well, in that case, is there any code that is no conforming? Do we really care what the results are?
<|3b|>
any code that invokes unspecified behavior is probably non-conforming
<pjb>
But if we don't care about the result?
<pjb>
Even more precisely, we may care locally, but in the long term, we're all dead, and history is lost in the fractals.
<|3b|>
well, if you don't like that argument, that is a conforming program to detect that particular implementation defined behavior
<|3b|>
(though i guess it doesn't detect if the implementation defined it to be 'undefined')
<|3b|>
ah, i guess it is "implementation dependent" not "implementation defined"
<beach>
Speaking of which, how much would it cost to have someone convert the dpANS tex files to a single LaTeX document (not a single file, a single document)?
<|3b|>
(which is what allows it to be defined as 'undefined', or not specified at all by the implementation)
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<beach>
I am asking, because that LaTeX document would be the basis of WSCL in which such the behavior could be defined.
<|3b|>
pjb: maybe a better example would be one that COMPILEs the function on first call, then only performance is affected
<|3b|>
or some attempt at optimized coverage testing that compiles out the code to make a function has been called once it has seen at least one call
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<pjb>
|3b|: well, I reduce conformity to "having the same behavior on all implementation". And indeed, this is a global program definition, so a function could detect implementation differences, and use it to compensate and implement the same behavior on all implementations.
<pjb>
beach: but hasn't it already been done? I thought there was TeX (or LaTeX) sources of clhs?
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<beach>
TeX yes, LaTeX no. And the TeX source is one per chapter.
<beach>
I want a single LaTeX document so that I can have cross references, a bibliography, hyperlinks, etc.
<pjb>
beach: so basically, you'd want somebody to convert TeX to LaTeX and make it a single document? I guess somebody knowing TeX/LaTeX and having the right tools could do that in less than one week work, so it should cost less than 5000 euros, I'd say.
<pjb>
between 1000 and 5000.
<beach>
Sounds right.
<beach>
I won't pay more than 1000 I think.
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<pjb>
I'm counting large, because I don't know TeX/LaTeX and the toolset enough.
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<beach>
Sure.
<pjb>
There's a #latex channel, they'll probably know better, and you might find somebody able to do it there.
<beach>
That's a thought.
<beach>
I still have to figure out whether I should just bite the bullet and do it myself.
<pjb>
The question is whether you have more time than money, or more money than time.
<beach>
Yeah.
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<devon>
beach: TeXnology.com typeset the first edition of SICP, ask them for a quote.
<beach>
Hmm.
<devon>
I'd rather convert the dpANS tex files to info, which has only been done poorly so far.
<beach>
But it's already in TeX form.
<beach>
What would I do with the info version of it?
<devon>
I use the awfully crappy error-ridden GCL info file all the time.
<jackdaniel>
info is easily navigable in emacs which editor many lispers seems to be fond of
<Xach>
i like emacs but i find info hard to use.
<loke>
Xach: I agree.
<beach>
But that's not the purpose of what I want. I want a LaTeX document that I can modify.
<beach>
I don't see how info would be adapted for that.
<loke>
That's one of the reasons I implemented a new info reader in CLIM
<loke>
(as part of Climaxima, because Maxima documentation uses texinfo)
<devon>
I'm sure TeXnology can do what beach wants but not what I want.
<beach>
It looks like they would be able to do that, but it also looks expensive.
<devon>
Info works for me, what could I do to remove your pain points?
<loke>
devon: I have two issues: 1) The markup used to write the documents.
<beach>
devon: I think I failed to communicate the purpose of what I want.
<loke>
and 2) the emacs browser for info is very uncomfortable to use
<beach>
devon: It's not that important, and the discussion has moved on. So let's drop it.
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<devon>
loke: Replacing (1) TeXinfo with some other notation and (2) Info-mode key bindings might suit you?
<loke>
devon: well, I'd like the entire document to be available in a single buffer so I can use isearch on it
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<_death>
loke: it is available in a single buffer, just narrowed.. so you can widen, for example, the emacs manual, and it will all be in a single buffer
<loke>
_death: that's good to know. Thanks.
<_death>
this is also why isearch will work anyway
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<devon>
loke: _death: Info docs are often arranged in many files. You could submit an Emacs feature request for multi-file i-search — which may already exist in MELPA or some contributed library.
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<devon>
loke: _death: Info i-search is multi-file already. When you get an ([end of node]) error, type another Control-S and it keeps on going to the next node.
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<varjag>
anyone here used org-mode with common lisp code snippets?
<varjag>
wonder how do you specify the package
<djeis[m]>
There's a src block option for it, if memory serves.
<djeis[m]>
But it's been a while since I tinkered with that...
<jackdaniel>
I think dto wrote about it a blog entry
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<pjb>
varjag: what about inserting (in-package :foo) in the block?
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<PuercoPop>
djeis[m]: from reading ob-lisp.el you can pass a PACKAGE param
<djeis[m]>
varjag: ^
<PuercoPop>
so #+BEGIN_SRC lisp package: "FOO"
<djeis[m]>
That fits with my memory of it, yea.
<PuercoPop>
sorry for the incorrect mention
<equwal>
Does not work
<equwal>
Use :package instead of package: and it works
<djeis[m]>
Oh yea.
<varjag>
it doesn't seem to work for me
<varjag>
if i compile a form specified like that, i get it in whatever current package in #+results