phoe changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <http://cliki.net/> <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/> | SBCL 1.4.14, CMUCL 21b, ECL 16.1.3, CCL 1.11.5, ABCL 1.5.0
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<seok> how do i create a vector #(a) which evaluates symbol a?
<no-defun-allowed> `#(,a)
<seok> oh, they are same as lists
<no-defun-allowed> yes, quasiquote works on literal vectors
<seok> #() is treated as if quoted automatically?
<seok> it gives me literal symbol when i do #(symbol)
<no-defun-allowed> #(...) is self evaluating, but `#(,foo) will evaluate foo
<seok> I thought that was odd
<no-defun-allowed> clhs 2.4.6
<no-defun-allowed> "`#(x1 x2 x3 ... xn) may be interpreted to mean (apply #'vector `(x1 x2 x3 ... xn))." is the important part
<djeis[m]> It's really funny how many times I've totally forgotten that's a thing.
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<edgar-rft> what's with (vector a) ?
<no-defun-allowed> that's also a good point
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<beach> Good morning everyone! And a Happy New Year!
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<evanpeterjones> happy New Year y'all
<beach> You too.
<beach> evanpeterjones: Are you new here? I don't recognize your nick.
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<devon> Happy New Year!
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<beach> devon: Thanks, you too!
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<splittist> happy new morning, #lisp
<no-defun-allowed> are there any resources on using CL with heroku?
<jackdaniel> I think coleslaw has heroku integration
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<jackdaniel> you may look there
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<no-defun-allowed> thanks
<no-defun-allowed> i found this which seems to be half the stack already prepared: https://github.com/yangby/heroku-example-sbcl-hunchentoot
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<no-defun-allowed> i'll probably have to take a look into coleslaw too, it's still very foreign to me
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<beach> You too splittist.
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<pjb> Test test-not test results; All implementations give the same results, accept :test nil and/or :test-not nil! https://gist.github.com/informatimago/4afdb7021c69a049d15672055e2512c8
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<|3b|> pjb: is :TEST NIL specified to error? http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_f.htm#function_designator says consequences are undefined if symbol doesn't name a function
<pjb> Then it's even worse.
<pjb> |3b|: but ok, we can stretch it.
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* |3b| thinks interpreting NIL as "use the default" would have been a reasonable choice to specify though, seems like i want to pass keys from other functions more often than i want to notice i have a NIL
<pjb> You're happy, this is what is implemented.
<|3b|> and both duplicating defaults and checking for provided argument and building an arglist to APPLY are annoying
<_death> write a CDR for it
<|3b|> nah, that just encourages me to write technically nonconforming code that may break randomly at any point in the future. not exactly a source of 'happy' :/
<|3b|> ('that' being existing behavior, not CDRs)
<pjb> It says that some conforming code can be non-conforming!
<pjb> Obviously that code is not conforming.
<|3b|> nah, just says it can detect implementation dependent behavior
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<|3b|> it is conforming as long as it doesn't care what the results are
<|3b|> same way #+foo(...) is conforming
<pjb> (defun add-some (x) (defun add-some (x) (+ x 2)) (+ x 1)) (mapcar 'add-some '(1 2 3 4))
<pjb> Well, in that case, is there any code that is no conforming? Do we really care what the results are?
<|3b|> any code that invokes unspecified behavior is probably non-conforming
<pjb> But if we don't care about the result?
<pjb> Even more precisely, we may care locally, but in the long term, we're all dead, and history is lost in the fractals.
<|3b|> well, if you don't like that argument, that is a conforming program to detect that particular implementation defined behavior
<|3b|> (though i guess it doesn't detect if the implementation defined it to be 'undefined')
<|3b|> ah, i guess it is "implementation dependent" not "implementation defined"
<beach> Speaking of which, how much would it cost to have someone convert the dpANS tex files to a single LaTeX document (not a single file, a single document)?
<|3b|> (which is what allows it to be defined as 'undefined', or not specified at all by the implementation)
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<beach> I am asking, because that LaTeX document would be the basis of WSCL in which such the behavior could be defined.
<|3b|> pjb: maybe a better example would be one that COMPILEs the function on first call, then only performance is affected
<|3b|> or some attempt at optimized coverage testing that compiles out the code to make a function has been called once it has seen at least one call
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<pjb> |3b|: well, I reduce conformity to "having the same behavior on all implementation". And indeed, this is a global program definition, so a function could detect implementation differences, and use it to compensate and implement the same behavior on all implementations.
<pjb> beach: but hasn't it already been done? I thought there was TeX (or LaTeX) sources of clhs?
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<beach> TeX yes, LaTeX no. And the TeX source is one per chapter.
<beach> I want a single LaTeX document so that I can have cross references, a bibliography, hyperlinks, etc.
<pjb> beach: so basically, you'd want somebody to convert TeX to LaTeX and make it a single document? I guess somebody knowing TeX/LaTeX and having the right tools could do that in less than one week work, so it should cost less than 5000 euros, I'd say.
<pjb> between 1000 and 5000.
<beach> Sounds right.
<beach> I won't pay more than 1000 I think.
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<pjb> I'm counting large, because I don't know TeX/LaTeX and the toolset enough.
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<beach> Sure.
<pjb> There's a #latex channel, they'll probably know better, and you might find somebody able to do it there.
<beach> That's a thought.
<beach> I still have to figure out whether I should just bite the bullet and do it myself.
<pjb> The question is whether you have more time than money, or more money than time.
<beach> Yeah.
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<devon> beach: TeXnology.com typeset the first edition of SICP, ask them for a quote.
<beach> Hmm.
<devon> I'd rather convert the dpANS tex files to info, which has only been done poorly so far.
<beach> But it's already in TeX form.
<beach> What would I do with the info version of it?
<devon> I use the awfully crappy error-ridden GCL info file all the time.
<jackdaniel> info is easily navigable in emacs which editor many lispers seems to be fond of
<Xach> i like emacs but i find info hard to use.
<loke> Xach: I agree.
<beach> But that's not the purpose of what I want. I want a LaTeX document that I can modify.
<beach> I don't see how info would be adapted for that.
<loke> That's one of the reasons I implemented a new info reader in CLIM
<loke> (as part of Climaxima, because Maxima documentation uses texinfo)
<devon> I'm sure TeXnology can do what beach wants but not what I want.
<beach> It looks like they would be able to do that, but it also looks expensive.
<devon> Info works for me, what could I do to remove your pain points?
<loke> devon: I have two issues: 1) The markup used to write the documents.
<beach> devon: I think I failed to communicate the purpose of what I want.
<loke> and 2) the emacs browser for info is very uncomfortable to use
<beach> devon: It's not that important, and the discussion has moved on. So let's drop it.
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<devon> loke: Replacing (1) TeXinfo with some other notation and (2) Info-mode key bindings might suit you?
<loke> devon: well, I'd like the entire document to be available in a single buffer so I can use isearch on it
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<_death> loke: it is available in a single buffer, just narrowed.. so you can widen, for example, the emacs manual, and it will all be in a single buffer
<loke> _death: that's good to know. Thanks.
<_death> this is also why isearch will work anyway
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<devon> loke: _death: Info docs are often arranged in many files. You could submit an Emacs feature request for multi-file i-search — which may already exist in MELPA or some contributed library.
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<devon> loke: _death: Info i-search is multi-file already. When you get an ([end of node]) error, type another Control-S and it keeps on going to the next node.
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<varjag> anyone here used org-mode with common lisp code snippets?
<varjag> wonder how do you specify the package
<djeis[m]> There's a src block option for it, if memory serves.
<djeis[m]> But it's been a while since I tinkered with that...
<jackdaniel> I think dto wrote about it a blog entry
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<pjb> varjag: what about inserting (in-package :foo) in the block?
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<PuercoPop> djeis[m]: from reading ob-lisp.el you can pass a PACKAGE param
<djeis[m]> varjag: ^
<PuercoPop> so #+BEGIN_SRC lisp package: "FOO"
<djeis[m]> That fits with my memory of it, yea.
<PuercoPop> sorry for the incorrect mention
<equwal> Does not work
<equwal> Use :package instead of package: and it works
<djeis[m]> Oh yea.
<varjag> it doesn't seem to work for me
<varjag> if i compile a form specified like that, i get it in whatever current package in #+results
<equwal> C-c C-c on the first, then the second (or just tangle)
<equwal> I lied, it doesn't work if you tangle it
<varjag> found the problem… the right package wasn't defined in this image
<varjag> *facepalm*
<equwal> I guess the keywords only apply when you C-c C-c on it. Otherwise you must (in-package :foo)
<varjag> yes i was doing c-c c-c
<varjag> thanks for the hints folsk
<equwal> Okay so you hadn't done C-c C-c on the (defpackage :foo) yet
<equwal> Cool!
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