<whitequark>
fwiw I looked into restructuring the buildbot to skip gateware changes and such
<whitequark>
but it's troublesome with our current dependency management
<whitequark>
the gateware depends on the exact version of ARTIQ itself, which is in principle correct...
<rjo>
whitequark: yes. there are to many factors in that interface.
<rjo>
whitequark: but #591 doesn't need hardware per se. if it folds the shit out of the code i am happy.
<rjo>
whitequark: but i'll flash anyway.
<whitequark>
oh, I was thinking of testing the other change (kernels hanging)
<rjo>
whitequark: i'll test the hanging thing. might that be fixed by !nagle?
<whitequark>
unlikely but possible, yes
<whitequark>
I cannot say anothing about lwip with a high degree of certainty...
<rjo>
imho we can dramatically simplify the "install from source" instructions. just tell them what conda packages to install to be able to compile bitstreams/bios/runtime. if somebody is masochistic enough and wants to really "install from source" the conda recipes are authoritative enough.
<cr1901_modern>
rjo: "the conda recipes are authoritative enough." This might've changed in the past few months, but that wasn't true when I last built ARTIQ ;)
<rjo>
cr1901_modern: but they are. otherwise they are buggy.
<cr1901_modern>
I currently can't build ARTIQ from source even if I wanted to b/c building the Rust runtime isn't supported on Windows. But I'll look into doing it again b/c I feel masochistic this week.
<whitequark>
rjo: disagree
<whitequark>
rjo: for example I don't use conda locally, but pip and the rest
<whitequark>
it's quite hard to use conda if you want to e.g. develop llvm or rust
<whitequark>
and anyhow the conda recipes differ from the install from source instructions in some ways...
<whitequark>
re "your fault": sort of. this means an LLVM version mismatch
<rjo>
whitequark: ack. but those are two different contexts. if you are an artiq user and want to hack artiq you'd be totally fine installing conda stuff and then an artiq working tree. in your case you are developing llvm, writing the conda recipes and duplicating that same information in the documentation where afaict few people need it.
<whitequark>
rjo: few people, true, but artiq developers do
<whitequark>
it's important for internal culture as well
<whitequark>
there's nothing worse than company software that's impossible to install. and artiq already fares badly on that front, even with docs.
<rjo>
whitequark: ack. but i would still think that installation instructions based on conda are immensely useful.
<rjo>
whitequark: in the past, haven't the conda recipes been more reliable than the documentation?
<rjo>
whitequark: and i do consider myself an artiq developer but haven't been using those instructions in the past.
<cr1901_modern>
For the dependencies that don't change much, conda works fine even for development, in my experience
<rjo>
i fully acknowledge that if you are developing e.g. llvm-or1k you wouldn't use the conda packages...
<cr1901_modern>
Just need to do setup.py develop on the artiq (and perhaps migen/misoc) tree
<rjo>
cr1901_modern: not if you are developing llvm-or1k
<whitequark>
rjo: I agree that your suggestion is useful, I just don't think it should *replace* the existing install_from_source
<whitequark>
you also have far higher tolerance for conda than me