<wolfspraul> lekernel: excellent news about the Linux Magazine article!
<wolfspraul> is there some way to download this issue as a PDF?
<wolfspraul> ah, I just see it was published last year :-) I confused 2010 and 2011 :-)
<wolfspraul> looks like it can be downloaded for 6.50 EUR
<kristianpaul> wolfspraul: last year indeed, you can get a pic version for free but is not very nice looking :/
<kristianpaul> I guess somebody here already have the Magazine :-)
<adamw_> kristianpaul, have you ever seen M1 shows " No boot medium found" under "BIOS> "
<adamw_> kristianpaul, this msg actully is good for me, at least no boot anymore..ha... I'm testing my Sch. 3  experiments: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_Power_On_Off_Sequence#The_schematics_of_three_experiments
<kristianpaul> adamw_: you got a bios pront i guess
<kristianpaul> BIOS>
<adamw_> right. :-o
<kristianpaul> are you entering in recue mode?
<adamw_> no
<kristianpaul> It still happing or just hapen once?
<adamw_> that's not my goal. he.
<adamw_> once...only..i'm reflashing image now.
<adamw_> with  Sch .3
<adamw_> you don't need to modify your brd, this is just on mysite first.
<kristianpaul> No boot medium found means that BIOS cant find a "Aplication" to be booted from flash
<adamw_> i don't want your brd get failure suddently.
<kristianpaul> wait, you mean it just happen?
<adamw_> yeah...i just want to know the background of s/w about this message's meaning.
<adamw_> yeah...from my fast power cycling...(:
<kristianpaul> well as i said, bios cant find flicernoise from flash
<kristianpaul> i may be wrong, i'm just doing a quick read of BIOS source code ;-)
<adamw_> don't try to do this on your site.
<kristianpaul> what?
<kristianpaul> ahh power cycling ;)
<kristianpaul> who knows... :-)
<adamw_> ok...good..just want someone can read the s/w codes to help me the meanings.:-)
<adamw_> yeah! Don't do this.
<kristianpaul> before " No boot medium found" there is a "I: Booting from flash..." message right?
<adamw_> sure..but it was shown it quite previously.
<kristianpaul> So if all was okay and it just happen after the power cycling experiment, something get wrong with 0x00920000 memory addr at flash, thats from when flicernoise binary is saved
<kristianpaul> You should reflash if you want it back
<adamw_> its previous log is : I: Attempting serial firmware loading
<kristianpaul> yes, sure
<kristianpaul> thats for flterm
<adamw_> then "E: Timeout" -> "E: No boot medium found"
<adamw_> yes, reflashing.
<kristianpaul> so flash got corrupted... after power cycling?..
<kristianpaul> but BIOS still Okay
<adamw_> after fast power cycling( power on -> off ->on , within 500~600ms)
<adamw_> like I said , pls don't try to do this on your brd.
<kristianpaul> OKAY !!
<kristianpaul> :-)
<adamw_> yeah..i guess BIOS works well.
<kristianpaul> Sure, i dont want bother wolfspraul for a board replacement ;-)
<adamw_> ;-)
<kristianpaul> ahh, will be nice if you could just dump the flash before re-flash, but thats late i think
<kristianpaul> I imagine it can be usefull at least to check what got corrupted..
<kristianpaul> Anyway...
<kristianpaul> adamw_: how long this test took?
<adamw_> yeah..late, also i don't know how to dump codes inside the flash under "BIOS>"
<kristianpaul> thats is done with urjtag
<kristianpaul> readmem
<adamw_> CH1 is DONE pin
<adamw_> CH2 is PROGRAM_B
<kristianpaul> adamw_: I must leave, kind of sleepy here
<adamw_> ha..surely
<kristianpaul> hope lekernel wakeup soon :-)
<kristianpaul> read you later then
<adamw_> get sleep first
<adamw_> thanks.
<Fallenou> hi
<Fallenou> kristianpaul: I tried the ftp server on flickernoise last night
<Fallenou> it works with qemu at least
<Fallenou> I was able to login and to upload a file (in /dev/ lol)
<Fallenou> I used FileZilla ftp client :)
<Fallenou> (power cycling kills the app on the flash ? :o)
<lekernel> kristianpaul: -lgmp in cflags is a hack
<lekernel> fix your findgmp.cmake instead
<lekernel> adamw_: when it says "no boot medium" you have a flash CRC error before...
<lekernel> also, the SDRAM calibration mode is entered when PB1 is pushed at the same time as the middle button
<lekernel> roh: are you at the agency today?
<adamw_> lekernel, ok. btw, I tested 200ms delay & diode schematic.
<adamw_> but still under investigating.
<adamw_> no further action I can do now..just fyi then if u have new ideas..let me know..
<Fallenou> lekernel: do you have a spare M1 RC1 for ethernet debugging ?
<kristianpaul> lekernel:  show me your findgmp.cmake please i need confirm something
<kristianpaul> Fallenou: hey, (ftp) good for upload, what about for download using ftp?
<Fallenou> which way ?
<kristianpaul> rtems have a ftp
<kristianpaul> fptD
<kristianpaul> you can upload, i can too :-)
<kristianpaul> but
<kristianpaul> i cant download files even of 1Mb in size
<Fallenou> oh
<Fallenou> so I have to put a file on my sdcard
<kristianpaul> download = login ftp then get
<Fallenou> and then try to download it through ftp ?
<kristianpaul> yesh !
<Fallenou> ok ok will try that :)
<kristianpaul> please try md5sum on it too
<Fallenou> oh yes sure
<kristianpaul> i mean just in case :-)
<Fallenou> good idea
<Fallenou> am at work for the moment
<Fallenou> will keep you posted
<kristianpaul> Thanks !
<kristianpaul> lekernel: i put this file on https://code.google.com/p/libpbc/source/browse/trunk/FindGMP.cmake in /usr/share/cmake-2.8/Modules (yes i know i can be else where)
<kristianpaul> my diff is now http://paste.debian.net/108604/
<kristianpaul> BUT
<kristianpaul> I got this after make http://paste.debian.net/108606/
<lekernel> Fallenou: there are lots of spare MM1 waiting for you at http://www.milkymist.org/buy.html ;)
<kristianpaul> You are at work ! thats excelent to source a buy :-)
<kristianpaul> lekernel: Can you please show me your FindGMP.cmake or equivalent?
<lekernel> but please don't ask me anymore about simple llhdl/cmake problems
<kristianpaul> :-|
<kristianpaul> OK
<lekernel> it's experimental stuff atm and I don't want to spend time on fixing your library issues... there are way more important trouble ahead
<kristianpaul> mine?
<kristianpaul> You wrote the code. I jsut telling hey i dint build well on debian. but OK
<kristianpaul> gotta go, bye
<lekernel> well, in that case it seems it's rather cmake that doesn't work
<Fallenou> lekernel: I was more thinking about borrowing one :)
<larsc> mwalle: how is lm32 uclibc comming along? can you send me your patches?
<lekernel> kristianpaul: if you have questions about how to implement best that or that llhdl feature into FPGA logic cells, or what's an appropriate abstraction level in the llhdl code for some structure, those are very welcome. but i'm sorry, trivial questions like how to get the program to link against libgmp are inappropriate at the time being
<kristianpaul> lekernel: (implement FPGA logic cells) actually that will be my next question about, but first i needed at least get hhdl to compile on my side, the question will be about adding spartan-3 support, i know i must read and find _my_self_ the information until seriously bother you ;-)
<lekernel> if you start supporting different xilinx fpga's, a lot of code can be shared with the current spartan6 support
<lekernel> it'll probably be a good idea to but that into a semi-generic "libxilinx"
<wolfspraul> lekernel: hi there. I'm not sure you and Adam understood each other, maybe I'm just the clueless third.
<wolfspraul> I think what Adam wanted to say is that the board he used to verify the diode fix acted very strange, and is now in a completely (for adam) unclear state.
<wolfspraul> if I understand this correctly, after about 9-10 cycle tests he first got the CRC error
<lekernel> hm, maybe the root cause is a DRAM problem
<lekernel> and hi btw :)
<wolfspraul> then he reflashed, and it seems to have work again (?), but later on entered the 'unbooted' mode very often, and finally stops working altogether with PROGRAM_B not coming up at all anymore (fig. 16)
<lekernel> a DRAM issue could cause both the CRC error and failed memory test symptoms
<wolfspraul> well, the reason I am curiously following this is that we still have those 2 boards that I 'broke' in the initial round of testing
<lekernel> at the end it does not boot _at all_?
<wolfspraul> yes, see Fig. 16
<wolfspraul> last picture
<lekernel> urgh... imo that board has some other problem
<wolfspraul> Adam should definitely speak himself, unfortunately he's already out now so we continue tomorrow
<wolfspraul> nah
<wolfspraul> we have already permanently damaged 2 other boards, _ONLY_ through power cycle testig
<wolfspraul> so maybe there are more bugs here, even if the diode fix per se is a good fix
<lekernel> I don't know. it has never happened to me
<wolfspraul> also, the fact that he got the crc error and unbooted problems already after 9-10 cycles with the diode fix is strange to me
<lekernel> and it might be a good idea to find out what is broken on those two boards
<wolfspraul> sure
<lekernel> maybe it's just a DRAM solder problem
<wolfspraul> just not so easy
<wolfspraul> and the dram solder problem emerges from power cycle testing?
<lekernel> it can emerge at any time, and according to Murphy's law, during power cycle testing
<wolfspraul> that will mean PROGRAM_B will not come up anymore?
<lekernel> no, definitely not
<lekernel> well, it's not PROGRAM_B btw, but DONE
<lekernel> that probably indicates a broken/corrupt flash
<wolfspraul> the reason we are not looking into the old two, fully unbootable (and shelfed) boards right now is that back then we did a lot of testing with a lot of boards
<wolfspraul> so our actions are not very tracable
<lekernel> this happened to me once, and went away after reflashing
<wolfspraul> this time it's much better/much more controlled
<wolfspraul> so I'm sure Adam will continue to work with this one board that has the diode fix
<wolfspraul> you think he should just reflash and it will boot again?
<lekernel> well
<lekernel> dump the flash first
<lekernel> so we can see exactly what has been corrupted
<wolfspraul> sorry yes DONE. so if DONE doesn't come up you can still flash?
<lekernel> then reflash
<lekernel> yes, with fjmem
<lekernel> or the xilinx tool
<lekernel> DONE does not come up on un-flashed boards btw
<wolfspraul> does ADam know how to dump the flash on this board? also with xilinx tool I would think?
<lekernel> I don't know how to do it, but it's definitely technically possible
<lekernel> maybe impact or urjtag have an option for that, maybe that needs to be coded
<wolfspraul> that sounds like Adam doesn't know.
<lekernel> maybe it's as simple as clicking an impact menu
<lekernel> never did it, I dont know
<wolfspraul> so power cycling corrupts the flash?
<lekernel> apparently, this happens sometimes
<wolfspraul> was the diode fix meant to fix that?
<wolfspraul> 'cannot boot once' is different from 'flash got corrupted for good'
<lekernel> urjtag has a "readmem" command
<lekernel> the diode was meant to fix both problems
<kristianpaul> urjtag have the readmem command, you just specify address, lenght and filename
<lekernel> at least from my understanding of them
<wolfspraul> lekernel: do you have any theory what may leave a written corruption in the flash chip?
<lekernel> so first, take that non booting board and read back the flash so we can test the "corrupted data" theory
<lekernel> yes, I explained it already
<lekernel> during power up, there might be an invalid signal on the write enable pin
<lekernel> which could cause write commands to be issued that would corrupt the flash's contents
<lekernel> the diode was supposed to fix this by asserting the flash reset low (and disabling it) until other signal levels are stable
<roh> morning
<wolfspraul> ok
<wolfspraul> roh: good morning!
<lekernel> good afternoon :)
<wolfspraul> btw, I didn't realize that the 'dhl package' we sent was actually a regular mail package
<wolfspraul> oh well
<wolfspraul> so we are at the mercy of Taiwan Post now to deliver it
<lekernel> in germany, dhl = regular mail, no?
<roh> lekernel: ack.
<roh> dhl is what german post was before
<lekernel> it's a bit messy, I sometimes get 2 or 3 different postmen every day
<wolfspraul> the good news is that tracking says it's in Taiwan already
<wolfspraul> it's moving
<wolfspraul> lekernel: ok it sounds like more work for Adam.
<lekernel> between PIN AG, DHL, German post, ... :)
<roh> lekernel: only 3?
<lekernel> wolfspraul: I thought I explained that to him already
<roh> there is also gls, dpd, fedex, ups and some more (only packages) .. for letters there are only a few besides the 'post'
<lekernel> but if the diode+reset IC make no improvement, it's probably another problem :(
<wolfspraul> lekernel: you mean you explained the 'invalid signal on write pin'?
<lekernel> yes
<wolfspraul> if you did then I'm sure that's clear. I am just following.
<wolfspraul> yes, there may be another problem
<wolfspraul> 'no improvement' may be too hash
<wolfspraul> harsh
<wolfspraul> let's see what Adam says about the latest status
<lekernel> the invalid signal on write pin could also cause intermittent no-boot, because even if no data write happens, the flash goes to another mode than "read array" when it receives a command
<lekernel> and the fpga would receive flash status information instead of bitstream, DONE would not go high, and the board would not boot
<wolfspraul> if we know that the diode fix itself makes the board meet stated IC requirements, and is proven to work and cause no side-effects, then that's a good thing in itself
<lekernel> btw all DONE means is "fpga has successfuly read a bitstream"
<wolfspraul> I mean "diode+reset ic"
<wolfspraul> do you see anything right now that would make you want to not add the diode+reset ic fix?
<lekernel> no, I don't
<wolfspraul> ok, good
<roh> wolfspraul: yay (package)
<roh> wolfspraul: what would have been 'not regular mail' ?
<wolfspraul> roh: DHL doesn't offer that to Taiwan
<wolfspraul> I mean the 'other' DHL
<wolfspraul> it's confusing.
<roh> ?
<roh> i still hope the taiwanese people can ready my address sticker and my handwriting
<roh> was difficult to squash the address into the 3 lines
<lekernel> argh, a BGA socket for the spartan6 is $566
<lekernel> I expect to fry a few chips during bitstream reverse engineering...
<lekernel> but at this rate, it seems cheaper to reflow the PCB, unless I really destroy a lot of FPGAs...
<lekernel> or even make disposable breakout boards. well, let's see what the rate of chip destruction is...
<lekernel> I've read in some paper that Altera FPGA chips need ~20 internal short circuits to blow up
<wpwrak> lekernel: interesting metric ;-) can't you just current-limit ?
<lekernel> don't know... maybe not so easy, the on-chip wires are thin and perhaps easily melted
<wpwrak> well, i guess before too long, you'll be an expert in just how much it takes to reach that melting point :)
<kristianpaul> he can use some cooling
<lekernel> haha, yeah, put the whole thing in liquid nitrogen so the fpga doesn't get damaged so easily ;)
<roh> hm.. i'd rather use a heatsink and temperature monitoring and fast shutdown
<roh> as in .. monitor temp AND current. if something spikes which shouldnt, power off.
<lekernel> the problem there might be very localized heating
<roh> sure. but something like 20mA or so should be noticeable nonetheless
<lekernel> and say, 20 milliamps can be a lot for a 100nm-wide wire
<roh> we'll see.. if you killed the first few we know
<roh> need to go out into the freezer outdoors hunt food. agency later
<kristianpaul> hmm, you'll end damaging a lot of fpga's indeed
<roh> i dont think its bad to kill a bit of hw to get to a goal
<wpwrak> roh: you would make a good general ;-)
<wpwrak> 100 nm ... 16 uA continuous, according to http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/9643/awg.htm
<wpwrak> but that's of course with poor heat transfer and probably a low temperature difference
<lekernel> any idea about what kind of CRC a 24-bit value could be?
<lekernel> actually a 32-bit value, but the 8 MSB are always 0 and I suspect they're padding
<Fallenou> lekernel: I have a IEEE link if you want :p
<Fallenou> there are two CRC-24 polynomes on the wikipedia page
<Fallenou> maybe you can try if they match
<lekernel> yeah, maybe it's one of them
<Fallenou> lol
<Fallenou> The first two conditions listed above persist for more than 400 cumulative hours at 85C Tj or more than 2,000 cumulative hours at 60C Tj.
<Fallenou> awesome