01:12 <cladamw> good morning ! Happy new year 2012 !

01:17 <kristianpaul> morning, and thanks cladamw !

11:15 <wpwrak> grmbl. lists.milkymist.org is down

11:48 <wpwrak> sb0: seems that lists.milkymist.org had too much champagne. it's down :(

11:49 <sb0> meh

11:49 <sb0> dreamhost issue ... :(

11:56 <wpwrak> nightmarehost :)

11:59 <sb0> yeah

12:00 <sb0> there's hardly a month without an incident of some sort

12:02 <wpwrak> why don't you just use qi-hw for this kind of infrastructure ?

12:03 <sb0> they do fix them, though. but I'd indeed prefer they had a bit more focus on prevention...

12:04 <sb0> well... then I have to move the web content (easy), database (semi-easy unless things go wrong), and mailman config and archives (messy)

12:05 <sb0> and I hate sysadmin, it feels like cleaning a massive toilet

12:05 <wpwrak> that's why i think outsourcing the problem to wolfgang could be something you'd like to do :)

12:15 <wpwrak> sb0: btw, what's your plan for phasing in migen as the "standard" way of building the soc ? is this something you see happen soonish or will it be a while ?

12:15 <sb0> it'll be in a while

12:15 <wpwrak> lots of infrastructure elements to convert ?

12:16 <sb0> merely because I plan to do other things at the same time: redesign the memory infrastructure, support 32bpp graphics, and use migen flow for the tmu

12:18 <wpwrak> yeah, i'm curious about the memory infrastructure. the speed improvements you predicted would be quite massive. but let's see how well practice and theory go together there :)

12:18 <sb0> I do not plan to support the current SoC buses in Migen

12:18 <wpwrak> you mean wishbone and such ?

12:18 <sb0> only the new, faster ones (except wishbone for lm32 compat)

12:19 <wpwrak> ah, i see. well, as long as there's some working bus where needed, who cares how it's done inside :)

12:24 <wpwrak> on friday, i had a bit of fun trying to midi-ize the "digital flame". it was a disaster :) first, i hit a regression with audio levels. not sure yet where this comes from. audio from the internal mic on my rc3 is now very weak.

12:26 <wpwrak> and then i realized that i still haven't killed the evil variable name typo "feature". i.e., that the compiler will just happily accept any typo and leave it to you to figure out what on earth is wrong this time.

12:27 <wpwrak> i thin what may work is to refuse any read of variables that haven't been assigned to. and to allow assignment (initialization) of user-defined variables in the initial section.

12:27 <sb0> yes but be careful - there can be user variables, that need to be carried from frame to frame

12:27 <wpwrak> yes, digital flame has some. nice little EWMA example.

12:27 <sb0> and sometimes those variables are read and set in the same eqn

12:28 <sb0> eg foo = foo*0.5 + bass*0.5 is perfectly valid

12:29 <wpwrak> there, we should probably require initialization

12:29 <sb0> if you do not allow non-existing variable names, it'll complain about foo being incorrect when compiling the right hand side

12:29 <wpwrak> yes

12:29 <wpwrak> so foo = 0 into the initial section (or whatever value)

12:29 <sb0> that's not how MD does it - so it should only be a warning

12:30 <wpwrak> in the case of foo = foo...., i could just "declare" foo before parsing the right-hand side, but that wouldn't work in more complex cases. e.g., if there's a foo/bar pair that affect each other

12:31 <wpwrak> ah, but we don't really have the concept of warnings :)

12:32 <sb0> yes. MD (and my compiler) simply create a new variable when it reads an unknown identifier

12:32 <wpwrak> but what i can do is make it depend on the style detection. so if you write a new-style patch, you get the error. if your patch is ugly original style, the compiler will shut up and let you choose your own misery ;)

12:39 <wpwrak> the style is conveniently known by the time the first non-initial assignment happens. so the only divergence would be that old-style patches may accept user variables in the initial section, which they wouldn't do in MD. well, i could catch that when detecting new-style syntax.

12:40 <wpwrak> but then, it's probably not worth it. i'd rather convince people to limit their editing of old-style to a minimum and to spend those five minutes it takes to properly format a patch if they plan any larger changes

12:41 <wpwrak> if we're good, maybe MD will "steal" our parser in a while ;-)

12:53 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: btw, how is your midi shopping going ?

12:54 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: yi is also looking for midi devices these days. i kinda suggested she get an icreativ. one of these days, i need to make a video comparing the controllers.

13:22 <wolfspraul> wpwrak: I ordered 2 lv3 + 1 icreati

13:23 <wolfspraul> icreativ

13:26 <wpwrak> good. you'll have fun :)