Topic for #milkymist is now Radical Tech Coalition :: Milkymist One, Migen, Milkymist SoC & Flickernoise :: Logs: http://en.qi-hardware.com/mmlogs
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<cladamw> wpwrak, (usb) for now, will ext. = max(4, 1) or min. = max(0, 1)? seems that haven't determined yet.
<wpwrak> i'd say ext = 4, int = 2. keep it simple :)
<wpwrak> int = 1 would be a highly unusual configuration anyway
<cladamw> mmm...current existing usb extendable cable seems not easy to find a one.
<wpwrak> virtually all the internal USB port of PCs are of that kind. they use 100 mil headers in a 2x5-1 configuration
<cladamw> also if 5 for rest, the footprints for two right-angle 1*2 parts plus another 1*1 usb connector are also not good for arrangement.
<wpwrak> 2x5-1 = a 2x5 pattern but with one pin cut
<wpwrak> wolfgang seems to know some magic cables for internal use. i don't know what they are. what i know are the 2x5-1 connectors used in pcs for the last 10 years or so :)
<cladamw> i would still leave this whole 6 ports to let house generating placements to see if they are okay at some time, or we decide it at that time, how do you think?
<wpwrak> i think it's okay if they choose the placement of the connector for the internal ports
<cladamw> okay...later i asked what magic cables (int.) are. ;-)
<wpwrak> remember, the internal ports would be a 100 mil header, not a USB A connector
<wpwrak> yeah :)
<wpwrak> the placement would depend a bit on what cables wolfgang can find
<cladamw> yeah... a one 2*5 pins header ( precisely said that it's a housing header in pitch 2.54mm) ;-)
<wpwrak> if he can find a nice cable, the there should be some distance between the header and the location of the usb device
<wpwrak> if he can't, and we have to use an adapter board, then they should be close
<wpwrak> (housing) you mean shrouded ?
<cladamw> yes
<wpwrak> that's not required
<cladamw> we can see if later what real cable we select. of course we want 2.54mm for 2*5
* kristianpaul interested on migen but will try later
<wpwrak> if we connect some 4x1 plus, we bypass any keying anyway
<cladamw> sure
<wpwrak> if we connect a pc-type cable, it should be 2x5-1
<kristianpaul> dont read all log, but please dont make M1 users to convert their videos to "specialiced" formats..
<wpwrak> kristianpaul: we probably will :)
<wpwrak> kristianpaul: at leat in layman's terms
<cladamw> kristianpaul, ;-)
<wpwrak> layman: just drop an .avi, .wmv, .mp3. or .mkv there, and it'll work
<wpwrak> us: well, .mpg at 160x80
<kristianpaul> wow nocarrier twitvid is AWESOME
<kristianpaul> wpwrak: srop and work sounds nice to me :)
<wpwrak> srop ?
<kristianpaul> s/srop/drop
<wpwrak> ah yes :)
<wpwrak> but it probably won't work that way :)
<kristianpaul> i know :)
<wpwrak> but that's an integration issue
<kristianpaul> wow nocarrier video is _awesome_, i wached twice i dint get bored :)
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<GitHub192> [scripts] xiangfu pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/6e3RwA
<GitHub192> [scripts/master] reflash_m1.sh cleanup help message - Xiangfu Liu
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<qi-bot> The Firmware build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-milkymist/milkymist-firmware-20120131-0507/
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<lekernel_> larsc: at the moment the expressions are dumbly translated into verilog, and it's verilog which takes care of expressions widths/signedness
<lekernel_> larsc: there is a way, but you need to reimplement Verilog's rules
<lekernel_> wpwrak: FFMPEG can read all sorts of formats... I'm not worried
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<wpwrak> lekernel_: we'll have to be careful to remove the encumbered ones, though
<wpwrak> so that would mean MPEG2, MPEG4, H.264, Quicktime at least >= 2, etc.
<lekernel_> aren't those the most popular ones?
<Fallenou> sure
<Fallenou> but if you support MPEG-2 you have to pay something AFAIK
<lekernel_> no, you don't have to :)
<wpwrak> MPEG-LA claims you have to. see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mpeg2#Patent_holders
<wpwrak> most of the patents should expire around 2014, though
<wpwrak> (and some earlier)
<lekernel_> they would claim anything that helps them make money
<wpwrak> and yes, _of_course_ the encumbered formats are the popular ones :)
<lekernel_> great. so let's just include them, we're too small for them to care.
<lekernel_> they would have to do things like buy a M1, analyze the software, ....
<cladamw> (upward
<cladamw> emission of bottom-mounted side-facing LEDs) FR4 allows probably
<cladamw> some light to pass at a steeper angle, but how translucent it will, i don't know. at least side-facing led is good idea.
<lekernel_> just don't mention anything about the supported formats
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<wpwrak> lekernel_: no, don't do that. remember openmoko ? we got bitten, too. and yes, they did make the effort.
<wpwrak> lekernel_: FLAC should be safe. maybe MPEG1, too
<wpwrak> it's not about size ...
<Fallenou> Well I heard recently from a lawyer that MPEG-2 makes you pay
<Fallenou> and pay even more than MPEG-4
<Fallenou> even if it's not logical
<Fallenou> it's like $0.50 per unit
<Fallenou> or $0.20
<cladamw> wpwrak, APA1606SURCK is currently proposed for leds? ;-)
<Fallenou> oh no it's $2.00 for MPEG-2 since january 2010
<Fallenou> hell it's expensive
<wpwrak> cladamw: yeah, nice and bright. do you like them ? :)
<cladamw> wpwrak, yeah pretty cool. seems that we had have side-facing led in stock, need to find it out. it's used in avt2.
<cladamw> wpwrak, also red color then. well...i need to check.
<cladamw> (U5 p/n content) just set visibled.
<Fallenou> MPEG-4 : 0 to 50 000 decoders sold per year => 0 royalties
<Fallenou> after that it's $0.25 per decoder
<lekernel_> Fallenou: but to properly get into the "0 royalties" category, I guess you have to sign something not so nice, right?
<Fallenou> I don't know if the license agreement (la) is like global
<Fallenou> or if you have to actually sign it
<wpwrak> mpeg4 is a minefield because there's not just one place you have to get licenses from: http://www.m4if.org/patents/
<wpwrak> lekernel_: presumably, yes
<Fallenou> hum ok, i'm not an expert anyway about this kind of stuff
<Fallenou> sounds scary
<wpwrak> and since M1 is a product targeted at professional use, it may not even fall into the royalty-free category
<lekernel_> seems FFMPEG can already read PNG/JPG
<wpwrak> Fallenou: it's scary and unjust
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<lekernel_> so I guess we can simply base all the image/video reading stuff on FFMPEG
<wpwrak> as long as it's not too hard to keep the ugly bits out, why not
<cladamw> wpwrak, it's 3.2*1.0mm, yours APA1606SURCK is 1.6*0.6mm,
<lekernel> wpwrak: what about distributing a package consisting of all the FN object files, a compiler/linker, and some instructions to build and link FFMPEG?
<wpwrak> cladamw: yeah. the one you have is HUGE :)
<lekernel> also the web updater should have an option to choose where to download stuff from
<cladamw> wpwrak, ;-) but from your led demo, you used 0603 package. the APA one is smaller.
<cladamw> wpwrak, yeah...so forget about my finding. ;-)
<wpwrak> lekernel: as long as it's not the 3rd bullet of http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Patent_Policy_Public_Face#Quick_summary
<wpwrak> or, for that matter bullet 2
<wpwrak> the laws are not friendly, and neither is the way the courts rule. most of what's on that page is based on court rulings
<wpwrak> also, the deeper you enter the grey zone, the more likely it is that you could invite unwanted attention. even a lawsuit you could win can kill you financially.
<wpwrak> cladamw: the APA... shuold be 0605, no ? checking ...
<wpwrak> yes, 0605
<wpwrak> so it's a little bit larger than the 0603 is used
<wpwrak> s/is used/i used/
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: your opinion on using ffmpeg ?
<cladamw> wpwrak, yes, since the distance between board edge and switches and ir is small, so yes, stick on this APA... ;-)
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<Fallenou> lekernel: do you really need python 3.2 for migen ?
<Fallenou> I have python 3.1 on debian squeeze :x
<lekernel> it seems larsc is using 3.1 successfully
<Fallenou> ok nice !
<Fallenou> will try to kick out uart and norflash for simulation
<Fallenou> and just keep lm32/wishbone/sram
<larsc> Fallenou: python 3.1 on squeeze works, but you have to install some dependencies manually, since most of the python libraries that come with squeeze aren't 3.x compatible
<Fallenou> it worked without any special dependency here
<larsc> if you want to use migen.flow you need networkx
<Fallenou> lekernel: if there is only one slave, migen generates things like sel[0] which xst refuses to synthetise
<Fallenou> because it's notan array
* Fallenou corrected by hand
<Fallenou> works great anyway
<lekernel> hm, ok
<lekernel> grmbl, verilog is annoying
<lekernel> btw if you want to load code in the memory there's the "init=" parameter
<lekernel> and I don't think you should need the interconnect component... the i-bus should have the instruction memory only, and the d-bus, something to display accesses
<lekernel> I can make you a point-to-point bus interconnect component for those cases.
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