<ca_>
So, it passes reachability within EC2, indicating afaik that ICMP works
<ca_>
Unfortunately, it doesn't respond to HTTP requests
<mort___>
ca_: hm. i don't have much direct experience with ec2 i'm afraid
<mort___>
looks like it starts, dhcp request sent, receives 172.31.1.66 in response and seems to be responding to ARP requests for that address
<ca_>
mort___: Yeah, I think I may have licked the ec2 problems... at least as far as getting it running. I suspect my problem now is that my unikernel doesn't want to talk HTTP (at least no via the public DNS entry supplied by ec2), but I'm stuck so I'm probably wrong about that too.
<hannes>
i didn't suggest anything, was only poked by holger (who has sent a list to the mail, awaiting moderator approval!??)
<djs55>
hehe ok
<djs55>
Who is a list moderator? It's not waiting for me is it?
<hannes>
would be nice if someone would try that out 4.03 + reproducible mirageos unikernels and explain why it is the case (i poked xavir to have this in 4.03 out of the box)
<yomimono>
I wondered what the set of experiments to "prove" a reproducible build might look like
<hannes>
yomimono: sure, if you like. and document what you changed and what works :)
<yomimono>
none of these *should* affect our builds, but I'll admit I can't prove it :)
<talex5>
Someone on the Qubes list tried building mirage-firewall twice with 4.02 and complained it had a different hash. Seems to work with 4.03, but didn't try wiping opam.
<djs55>
ok, I've flushed the list moderation queue — sorry about that
<djs55>
ok I see also on the agenda there's a note "MirageOS and QubesOS integration -> ppx_sexp_conv removal -> updated to support 4.03" — this sounds good
<hannes>
djs55: there might be more libraries which have accidentally recorded the ppx into runtime dependencies (rather than build deps)
magnus_ has joined #mirage
<djs55>
That's a good point — I think I'm probably guilty of that
<hannes>
(since you were doing lots of the ppx stuff, you might remember which to check; i did it for mirleft+mine)
<talex5>
Sounds like a build tooling problem with oasis.
<talex5>
Does topkg help here?
<djs55>
I'm sure topkg solves all problems
<yomimono>
I don't see a dbuenzli to provide a counterargument
<hannes>
talex5: there's builddepends and xmetarequires which you can specify separately
<djs55>
ah xmetarequires
<djs55>
I've just been called away IRL but talex5 has volunteered to help run the rest of the meeting — sorry about that!
<talex5>
I feel there should be some kind of automatic link between the {build} tag in opam and the requires in META.
<talex5>
Anyway, it's working for now. mirage-firewall went back down from 10 MB to 5 MB.
pris has joined #mirage
<mort___>
cool :)
<talex5>
OK. Moving on...
<pris>
is here or #docker-dev the right place for hyperkit discussion?
<talex5>
Mirage Dashboard and Lwt tutorials. Who added that?
<yomimono>
pris - normally here, but we're smack in the middle of our fortnightly meeting. it usually runs for another ~20 minutes or so
* pris
lurks to let meeting continue
<yomimono>
thanks pris :)
avsm has joined #mirage
<talex5>
pris: just checking with a hyperkit developer, who's sitting next to me.
<talex5>
He suggests #docker-dev
djs55 has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
<talex5>
Does anyone have anything to say about Lwt tutorials? I think there was an out-of-date one on the mirage site somewhere...
<avsm>
Hello! That Lwt tutorial does need quite a bit of work.
<talex5>
It still talks about using the campl4 syntax extensions.
<yomimono>
among other things it teaches the use of lwt syntax extensions D:
<mort___>
agree syntax extensino should go
<yomimono>
Perhaps we should just remove it and link to the ocsigen docs?
<mort___>
but given RWO is all about async, several students this year found it v useful
<mort___>
so i don't think it should be removed completely without a good simple alternative tutorial
<avsm>
There's been active discussion about what to do with Lwt and Async as well recently. An Lwt adapter to Async is a distinct possibility... I'm interested in ensuring that Async_kernel is Mirage compatible in the short term so we can experiment with that approach.
<mort___>
(can't recall if such is in ocsigen docs)
<talex5>
I could go through the tutorial and at least make sure it's up-to-date and mentions error handling.
<mort___>
talex5: that'd be great. i really think that losing it without a good replacement is a bad idea
<talex5>
OK. Next item.
<talex5>
Security adv. hannes?
<hannes>
well received, we should do that again. (I didn't add that topic)
<Drup>
if I may, I (and others) would appreciate if lwt tutorials were contributed to .. lwt :)
<yomimono>
+1
<aantron>
+1
<hannes>
my article ended up in the ocaml weekly news..
mort___ has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
<talex5>
Drup: I'll check how specific it is to Mirage.
<talex5>
Do we have any plans for any kind of security audits?
<hannes>
talex5: I do continuous ones... would be nice to get yomimono afl stuff up and running... would also be nice to get professionals look over OCaml code, but so far I only met people who can read C and assembly ;)
<talex5>
I suspect that "grep FIXME" in a C stubs would be quite effective.
<hannes>
and fixing all the nasty C compiler warnings you mean? ;)
<yomimono>
I'd personally be hesitant to call anything short of a professional engagement a "security audit", but maybe a thorough code review wouldn't go amiss
<yomimono>
(I should restate: a thorough code review would certainly be a good idea)
magnus_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
<hannes>
and in any case, design documents, as discussed last time, should predate this..
<avsm>
I would focus on getting the AFL tooling integrated into at least one of the protocols
<avsm>
it's very very close to being useful...
<yomimono>
it's quite a bit easier with the (unfortunately massive) PR to mirage-tcpip I submitted yesterday
djs55 has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
<talex5>
I had a go with AFL on the 9p libraries. Very easy to use and effective.
<talex5>
Is it in opam yet?
<avsm>
yomimono: awesome!
<yomimono>
is what in opam yet? the AFL branch to 4.02.3?
<talex5>
yomimono: yes
<hannes>
(sorry, have to leave in 5 minutes to catch a train; I'd like people thinking about a potential mirage-3.0 (maybe this time with a press release with LF/Xen (amir reminded me of that possibility)... imho having a solution to error handling (wip afaik) and logging is sufficient, plus no camlp4, and 4.03 support.
<yomimono>
talex5: I believe so, but am checking to make sure
<yomimono>
hannes: good points all, thanks :)
djs55 has joined #mirage
<talex5>
Regarding breaking all the APIs. I really think we need a way to upgrade APIs smoothly.
<hannes>
there are various things to be improved in mirage-types: rename V1 to something not depending on a version (versioning is done at the opam level), CLOCK interface improvements, NETIF, ...)
<hannes>
talex5: no, please let us use opam for that. there's no need for another SAT solver on the module layer
<talex5>
At the moment, if I want to change the NETWORK sig, I have to update every network implementation in existence at the same time,
<yomimono>
talex5: do you think that providing some mechanism for releases of all libraries in lockstep would suffice?
<hannes>
talex5: no, conflicts: "mirage-types">3.0.0
<talex5>
What changes have we successfully made to mirage-types in the last 12 months?
<hannes>
which one have been successfully proposed? most recently mindy's ICMP
<yomimono>
ISTM this might be a discussion for the mailing list
<talex5>
I only see changes to TCP, which has only one consumer anyway.
djs55 has quit [Client Quit]
<hannes>
talex5: I don't get your point, sorry
<hannes>
(have to leave now)
<yomimono>
I agree that this is a problem, but I don't think it's one we'll solve before hannes has to catch a train, and I think it's one we can usefully get more perspectives on.
<yomimono>
In particular, there may be some release automation that can help us with this.
<talex5>
Yes, let's move it to the list.
<avsm>
just one thought on mirage-types and versioning
<avsm>
why dont we have an opam package per module type?
<avsm>
that way we can refine them independently. It was just an artefact of packaging at the time that I bundled them together into one OPAM package
<avsm>
(thus possibly defeating the entire point of having a dependency-free set of module types)
<avsm>
(but yes this is more appropriate for the mailing list :-)
djs55 has joined #mirage
<talex5>
OK. Any other thoughts on Mirage 3.0?
<yomimono>
I'd like to make a poll of users of low-level libraries like block and network to see whether folks have requests beyond error reporting and logging
<yomimono>
for massive API breakage
<talex5>
Good idea. Are you planning to send something to the list?
<yomimono>
If we're going to start talking about mirage-3.0.0 more concretely, yes.
<avsm>
It's a good time to do so.
rudenoise has quit [Quit: rudenoise]
<yomimono>
under "mirageos 3.0" we have an item "schedule? release engineer? press release via xenproject/LF?"
<yomimono>
in the past we've ended up scheduling around deadlines imposed by the press release, and samoht/avsm have done our release managing
<yomimono>
I suspect that they're not too eager to repeat that experience
<talex5>
I thought the plan this time was to sneak all the features into 2.x and then use 3.0 just for PR?
<yomimono>
hm, so massive API breakage in 2.10 or something then?
mort___ has joined #mirage
<talex5>
Yes. The press release would talk about "changes since 2.0".
<avsm>
This time, I would not impose an artificial deadline around a press release
AltGr has joined #mirage
<avsm>
There's simply too much code to quickly rejig everything as we used to do (and too many users of said code!)
<avsm>
So planning a more punctuated set of feature changes is better. mirage 3 should only include the absolute core APIs that we want to define and leave as much as possible to the library ecosystem
<talex5>
But the press release will talk about the whole ecosystem, right?
<yomimono>
We have to come up with some compelling stuff for a press release to say, and "we broke a bunch of APIs" is probably not super compelling
<yomimono>
So I imagine that talex5 is right, and any press we do will center the features that all the API breakage enables.
mort___ has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
<talex5>
I guess we should continue this discussion when Amir is around.
<avsm>
nojb did a great job with that PR -- it was just configuration that was blocking it (pre functoria)
<avsm>
Also, we also now have actual IPv6 endpoints to test it with on Rackspace
AltGr has left #mirage [#mirage]
<yomimono>
I'm willing to sit down and try to go through a bunch of these, but it'd be nice if someone with complementary expertise to my own has time to do that with me
<yomimono>
(i.e. someone who knows about stuff that isn't mirage-tcpip)
<talex5>
Maybe grab a conference room here once you're back in the UK?
<yomimono>
or do it over IRC sometime sooner -- seems silly to wait until June for that reason; it's a distributed project :)
<yomimono>
If anyone's interested, feel free to contact me here or by e-mail, or just responding to a bunch of old issues :P
<talex5>
Yes, I guess people can just comment on issues and we'll check next meeting that we didn't miss too many.
<yomimono>
Unless there are other suggestions, let's move on...
<talex5>
"Future hacking evening"
<yomimono>
A+ YES LET'S
<yomimono>
GemmaG - can you help us organize this in Cambridge?
<GemmaG>
Of course :)
<yomimono>
great! I'll take responsibility for working with you to get that going :)
<talex5>
GemmaG, yomimono: thanks!
<GemmaG>
Was thinking that sometime in June could be good - while Daniel is visiting
<avsm>
I can supply sufficient wine to fuel a Pembroke IPv6 evening
<yomimono>
GemmaG: that sounds great. If there are no objections/suggestions/strident yelling, let's continue on
<yomimono>
avsm: YES EXCELLENT
<avsm>
as long as we dont end up with IPv5
<talex5>
"4.03 flambda testing"
<talex5>
Anyone tried flambda yet?
<yomimono>
Not since it was properly released.
wiredsister has joined #mirage
<talex5>
OK then. topkg?
<talex5>
I haven't tried it, but it looks pretty nice.
<yomimono>
Does anyone have time to look at using it with some of our libraries in the next week or so?
<avsm>
It's on my list for cohttp
<avsm>
probably on plane back on Friday
<yomimono>
Hearing none, maybe it'd be a good idea to bump the mailing list thread that I seem to remember existing.
<yomimono>
Oh, cool! thanks avsm :)
<avsm>
flambda: I tried it, but it's not at all clear to me if every cmx file needs to be compiled with the flags or not
<talex5>
I suspect people are waiting until it's available without pinning loads of stuff.
<avsm>
yes, but a remote should sort that out
<avsm>
I'm keen to figure out if a topkg setup would let Cohttp be published as both OCaml and Reason code (details TBD before anyone prods me for more)
<talex5>
I mean, its purpose is to release your software, but any software you release won't work yet ;-)
<avsm>
hah, true :-)
<talex5>
OK, final item:
<talex5>
Outreachy
<yomimono>
It starts on May 23rd!
<talex5>
wiredsister?
<yomimono>
Looks like she might be AFK. wiredsister, do let us know if you need anything before (or after!) the official start date :)
<avsm>
wiredsister is in OSCON! Must say hello while here!
<yomimono>
Oh yes! she did a talk for OSCon Cultivate which I heard was fantastic.
<talex5>
Was anyone else involved?
<avsm>
I'll find her while in Texas and see if anything is needed to start Outreachy
<avsm>
There's a significant chance I'll be struck by lightning before that though
<wiredsister>
avsm: Hi!! I'm coming to your talk at 11:55
<avsm>
hello!!
<avsm>
Oooooops talk, almost forgot
<wiredsister>
currently sitting in the Go Unikernel's talk
<wiredsister>
lol
<avsm>
heading over now! Is it Ballroom A?
<engil>
Go Unikernel
dsheets has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<wiredsister>
let me check for you
<wiredsister>
avsm: Your talk is 11:55 in Ballroom A (first floor, I believe)
<talex5>
OK. We've reached the end of the agenda. Any other things to discuss?
<talex5>
OK then, let's close the meeting!
<wiredsister>
Hi everybody, I'm so excited to be your lackey. EOM.
<GemmaG>
Woop :)
<engil>
unpurecamelbot: commit done
<unpurecamelbot>
done
GemmaG has left #mirage [#mirage]
<engil>
unpurecamelbot: bye
unpurecamelbot has quit [Quit: unpurecamelbot]
<talex5>
Hopefully we'll get a more efficient chair next time ;-)
talex5 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<yomimono>
...and here I was about to call this a triumph of anarchic self-organization
<wiredsister>
yomimono: I don't think I need anything to get started. I presume it still goes that I'm going to be working on syslog.
<yomimono>
wiredsister: yep, that's my understanding too :)
<wiredsister>
so checking in on that slack room will be the first thing I do.
<wiredsister>
as soon as I'm not OSConing.
<yomimono>
OSCon on! :)
avsm has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
<wiredsister>
Yeah, not sure if the Mirage team knows this, but y'alls faces were on a Docker slide today :)
<wiredsister>
for Soloman's opening keynote for the conf
<lobo>
ohai wiredsister. is there a recording of your talk?
<yomimono>
...hey, there's no cat on this slide D:
<wiredsister>
hey lobo! not yet. I'm waiting to hear back
<wiredsister>
the TL;DR is I'm building a game in OCaml
<wiredsister>
and I'm hoping the company who has the IP for that game, doesn't sue me...
<wiredsister>
but I plugged OCaml hard.
<wiredsister>
when I get the video, I promise I will blast it out.
<yomimono>
Yay!
ricarkol has quit [Quit: Page closed]
mort___ has joined #mirage
djs55 has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
dsheets has joined #mirage
djwillia has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
copy` has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
rgrinberg has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
wiredsister has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
mort___ has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
rgrinberg has joined #mirage
jermar has joined #mirage
rgrinberg has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
rgrinberg has joined #mirage
ca_ has quit []
thomasga has joined #mirage
dsheets has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
dsheets has joined #mirage
dsheets has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
copy` has joined #mirage
dsheets has joined #mirage
dsheets has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
rgrinberg has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
yomimono has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<reynir>
oh damn, missed the meeting again :)
_whitelogger has joined #mirage
insitu has joined #mirage
dsheets has joined #mirage
insitu has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
dsheets has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
manud has joined #mirage
dsheets has joined #mirage
dsheets has quit [Remote host closed the connection]