* DocScrutinizer05
just updates his Jollaphone and notices how sailfish is a closed-surface wholesale product not allowing any access to the system
<Wizzup>
indeed
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<DocScrutinizer05>
ohwow, fingerterminal
<DocScrutinizer05>
no redial of last number, incredible. As if the last 30 years didn't exist
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<DocScrutinizer05>
how hard could it be to have the "dial2 button do a redial when not a single digit been enetered in dialer, instead of disabling it when no digit
<DocScrutinizer05>
also size of digits entered + displayed in dialer is pathetic
<wpwrak>
couldn't that result in a lot of unintentional calls ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
with like 5 actions/gestures to even *open* the dialer? hardly
<DocScrutinizer05>
you think pressing a few random digits in your pocket is a sufficient protection against unintended dialing by randomly pressing the "green button"?
<DocScrutinizer05>
making that "call" button a slider instead would make much sense, yes
<DocScrutinizer05>
requiring entering of a number to fial instead of simply redialing last number when no number entered before engaging "dial" button, not so much
<DocScrutinizer05>
dial*
<wpwrak>
dialling random digits usually isn't such a big issue. those few places that have three-digit numbers probably aren't bothered much by such calls :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
eventually it seems i have to knock together a decent dialer UI
<wpwrak>
but dialling a perfectly valid regular number can be undesirable
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<DocScrutinizer05>
note that in sailfish (just like in fremantle) you can reach dialer UI only by hitting the "enter a number" button in inbound call history
<wpwrak>
e.g., call your wife to tell her that you have to work late, then mess with your girlfriend and in the throes of passion accidently redial ...
<DocScrutinizer05>
or generally call history. Which conveniently may lack the calls that didn't even get established
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: that's all no argument for having a nonsensical UI paradigm
<wpwrak>
well, if the path to the accident is always large, then it's probably okay to have a "quick redial"
<DocScrutinizer05>
relying on "how likely is it to dial a valid number" is a pretty poor approach to avoid unintentional calls
<wpwrak>
or maybe have two steps: dial -> last number appears, dial again -> call is made
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's actually the correct way, juust that last 5 or 10 calls appear and the most recent one gets dialed when you hit "dial", unless you select another one
<DocScrutinizer05>
for good reference, compare to ancient Nikia phones (pre smartphone age) that indeed had a decent UI
<DocScrutinizer05>
Nokia*
<DocScrutinizer05>
you had basically red, green, up, down, NK-pad, and a power button. Maybe two softkeys
<DocScrutinizer05>
the "modern" touch" UIs fail due to too many alternative or differing input methods
<DocScrutinizer05>
on a phone I'd expect dialer to be one of my primary homescreens
<DocScrutinizer05>
with a hardware button to open it up, at any time
<DocScrutinizer05>
dialing my favorite 10 numbers must be a matter of no more than 2 actions
<DocScrutinizer05>
dialing an arbitrary "spelled out" number as well
<DocScrutinizer05>
(until strart of keying in the 10some digits of number)
<DocScrutinizer05>
and why the heck are the digit chars a 5mm high on a screen with 5" diagonale?
<DocScrutinizer05>
even 10$ feature phones know to zoom the digit display to always use max area of the 180x55 display
<DocScrutinizer05>
I've seen only one decent "smartphone dialer" so far, and that's been a windows phone. where entering digits into dialer also fulltext-searched and displayed the contacts for anything matching the T9 equivalent of the number you entered
<DocScrutinizer05>
contacts and call history actually
<DocScrutinizer05>
protection against unintended operation of device is a duty of keylock
<DocScrutinizer05>
long press of any digit key shall dial the speed-dial number on storage #1..#10
<DocScrutinizer05>
entering #00 to #99 shal invoke (but not yet dial) the storage (aka contacts) of that index number
<DocScrutinizer05>
evidently only applicable on a list sorted by index, not on a list sorted by alphabet or whatever
<DocScrutinizer05>
ooops, that's 00# to 99# iirc
<DocScrutinizer05>
even in line with 3GPP
<DocScrutinizer05>
I think our modem actually supports that (except for already dialing that number instead of just displaying it)
<DocScrutinizer05>
as a general rule: always design an UI so you could operate it by (hot-)keys and never need to touch mouse or whatever pointer device
<DocScrutinizer05>
in case of a phone, your number of hardware (hot)keys is limited to 16..20
<DocScrutinizer05>
and usually no qualifier keys allowed
<DocScrutinizer05>
dualtouch pinch-to-zoom is a regression in this regard
<DocScrutinizer05>
try to pinch-to-zoom when you got only one free hand to hold and touch the phone
<DocScrutinizer05>
wobbly backside that doesn't allow device to sit flat and stable on top of table: nogo
<DocScrutinizer05>
(jollaphone is OK here)
<Oksana>
What about 3.5mm connector? It's currently "????" on the block diagram?
<DocScrutinizer05>
something that might maybe fir onto the bay in case?
<DocScrutinizer05>
fit*
<DocScrutinizer05>
sure maybe such component esists and maybe it's SMT so we could solder it in place and *maybe* we could still insert the board with soldered-on AV-jack into the case
<DocScrutinizer05>
please read sevice manual
<wpwrak>
hmm, not much luck with that mounting method it seems
<DocScrutinizer05>
for sure not, and particularly not with exactly those outer dimensions so it would fit tight into the case bay, and has same electrical/contact/switch properties as well
<wpwrak>
let's see what the SMT solutions would look like ...
<Oksana>
I am after having a specification of "3.5 mm headset connector" on block diagram, about ability to survive ten years in hot-dry-humid environment without getting rusty. Because on my current N900 there is green-rust visible inside it.
<DocScrutinizer05>
what they would look like? like something we cannot insert into case shell anymore
<wpwrak>
that's what i'm trying to determine ...
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's pretty obviouus
<wpwrak>
yes, but great scientific progress is made by questioning the obvious ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
the outermost contact (sleeve) of any such connector would lock the board inside case shell
<DocScrutinizer05>
reassemble you N900 and watch it. Err nope you still have the AV jack inside case shell, so it is sufficient to closely inspect it
<DocScrutinizer05>
I think it gets pretty tight to get the sleeve contact that close to the outer surface of case shell with a SMT mounted connector
<DocScrutinizer05>
as long as the original Nokia component is widely available, I consider if a waste of time to even investigate the alternatives
<Oksana>
So is the original Nokia's component widely available? Link to it?
<wpwrak>
audio jack compartment is about 14.9 x 7.4 mm. so the SJ-4361X-SMT or also the SJ-43504-SMT would fit easily
<wpwrak>
which would leave a) Z positioning and b) getting it close enough to the outside wall
<DocScrutinizer05>
and you also considered how to actually insert the complete PCB with AV jack soldered on top into the case shell?
<wpwrak>
seems that they all expect to mate "tightly"
<wpwrak>
that's part of b)
<DocScrutinizer05>
no it isn't
<wpwrak>
wall will bend a little. but we'll need some ... 1.1 mm at least. hmm.
<Oksana>
Was the original Nokia's jack also copper alloy with gold plating? Is it "normal" that the jack is unshielded? Alright, I will look for waterproof jack-caps, since I do not use the headset connector much, and I do not want it to get rusty-dusty ten years later. The Nokia's jack was about 14.7x9.4x6.5mm, according to http://www.electronicproducts.com/Nokia_N900_Mobile_Phone-whatsinside_text-90.aspx
<DocScrutinizer05>
inserting PCB nto shell is like: rotate board 5° counterclockwise, lift powerbutton side a 10mm. InsertUSB into hole in shell. Rotate PCB clockwise until lower long side fits into the latches in shell. Lower powerbutton side and press it into the shell latch at this side
<DocScrutinizer05>
any soldered-toPCB AV component will collide with the walls of the shell cave where the jack lives in
<DocScrutinizer05>
during that procedure
<DocScrutinizer05>
Oksana: yes, the AV jack is goldplated springs, unshielded. using rotten plugs or plugging a lot in sandy environment may make the gold plating come off. Then it starts rotting
<Oksana>
So how would Nokia's AV component be attached? And how do other modern phones solve the problem, since they do not use Nokia's connector, right? I do not recall plugging a lot, but the environment was sandy, for a long time.
<DocScrutinizer05>
using a rubber plug is an excellent idea
<DocScrutinizer05>
Nokia's AV jack is spring loaded feet that connect to gold plated pads on PCB
<wpwrak>
so collision in that direction probably wouldn't be a bit problem
<wpwrak>
however, the 3 o'clock direction is where things don't look so good
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'm not eager to even discuss such non-issues
<wpwrak>
do we at least have some sort of part number ? then i can already make it look a lot prettier :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
how about simply keeping those nokia part #5469246 on BOM and frequently check for availability, and not get a headache for alternatives
<wpwrak>
#5469246 is the nokia number ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
looks like
<wpwrak>
kewl. that's all i need. thanks ! :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
yw
<astr>
DocScrutinizer05, umm what would you suggest for a more realistic/helpful donation/pre-order size? £200?
<astr>
£300+.....?
<astr>
baring in mind in my case I can't afford to lose *00 and gain nothing
<astr>
and yet i would be after 1gb ram
<astr>
seeing about trying to bite the bullet thats all
<bencoh>
does that mean we could easily end up with CAL corruption and nolo unable to boot ?
<bencoh>
(if maemo plays with CAL)
<wpwrak>
as far as i get what those parameters are, nothing here sounds unsolvable. worst case: board-specific code has to do some decoding. and yes, the command line can also be helpful.
<wpwrak>
for testing, just hard-code :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
bencoh: NOLO will boot anyway (on N900), but you might miss R&D mode, device hw rev, BT & WLAN MAC addr, etc
<DocScrutinizer05>
CAL is pretty much unlikely to corrupt, but yes it's possible. We had our used we called "nandtester" since he started nandtest on complete /dev/mtd and then wondered why his device acted weird
<DocScrutinizer05>
CAL is actually the only data structure on N900 you cannot regenerate/recover with a reflash
<DocScrutinizer05>
you however can (probably, unconfirmed afaik) restore CAL under maemo using mtdtools to write a CAL image you created before damage of CAL
<bencoh>
hmm
<bencoh>
do we have a public CAL image ?
<bencoh>
(available for anyone messing its cal part)