01:25 <Oksana> 700MHz (part of LTE and WiMax?): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_2008_wireless_spectrum_auction#Google_involvement

02:15 <DougLashz> Will there be a convenient way to disable the battery hot swap?

03:05 <Oksana> Disable the battery hot swap? Why?

07:51 <kerio> Oksana: FUCK THIS CONVENIENCE SHIT

07:51 <kerio> I WANT MY LIFE TO BE AWFUL

07:51 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: speech!

07:53 <DocScrutinizer05> this chan is quite liberal but I like the fact that it usually still stays kind of civilized

07:59 <kerio> how does the battery hotswap even work

08:01 <DocScrutinizer05> technically it's meant to be a sufficiently large buffer capacitor to supply only the TWL4030 VBATT for a 500ms or less, while power hogs like modem, LCD backlight, WLAN etc are powered directly from battery and go down during battery swap but are supposed to transparently recover from such outage

08:02 <kerio> 500ms is very little time :v

08:02 <kerio> ok i guess you just do the thing where you slide the new battery below the old one

08:03 <kerio> i used to have to do that to keep the clock on my old n900

08:03 <DocScrutinizer05> it is pretty long: http://neo900.org/stuff/batswap-quick-procedure.gif

08:04 <kerio> are you a wizard

08:05 <DocScrutinizer05> http://neo900.org/stuff/media/video/battswap/fastbattswap_slomo.MOV

08:06 <DocScrutinizer05> I expect 200ms to be more than sufficient

08:06 <kerio> now do one where the battery turns into a bird!

08:08 <kerio> also, i can't believe i never thought of just pushing the battery below

08:08 <kerio> i usually pull the top battery a bit when i do that

08:08 <kerio> this is even simpler and faster

08:17 <DocScrutinizer05> eventually I might do another slomo with stopwatch and have a LED soldered to the battery contacts, so I could exactly time the blackout time during swap

08:38 <DocScrutinizer05> or even smarter: use a o'scope to plot the voltage vs time on two thin wires soldered to the battery contact blades in device

08:44 <DocScrutinizer05> that however might need some additional tweaks to the device itself, since for example there's a number of buffer capacitors on VBAT+ which should completely spoil such plot unless we also attach a decent high load via a shunt, or simply break the battery rail by e.g. removing/cutting the GND connection via R1129 shunt http://wstaw.org/m/2014/12/15/plasma-desktope11330.png

08:46 <DocScrutinizer05> of course fast sampling via ADCIN4 GAIA which is connected to BSI would also provide pretty good data about duration of battery being detached. Even a tad better than probing VBAT+ since this is the 0.5mm shorter BSI blade on battery contact

09:08 <DocScrutinizer05> a research order to those willing to mess around with N900 a bit, on the mere software level: 1) find the mechanisms that bme is using to shut down the system on BSI contact break. (hints: gdb tracing needs to go to external data sink e.g. via ttyACM since otherwise no logs get written for an event that immediately shuts down the system. ADCIN4 pin(!) of GAIA/TWL4030 most likely is involved) 2) after `stop bme` (to avoid the system

09:08 <DocScrutinizer05> shutdown, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=57734) run a simple program that in a loop does a {ADCIN4 conversion and readout; writes the result to stdout with timestamp; waits a 25ms}

09:15 <DocScrutinizer05> s/1) find/1) identify/

09:42 <DocScrutinizer05> NB that batt hotswap is not a guaranteed product feature, like everything else of the "better than N900" features. Might turn out to be not feasible

09:43 <DocScrutinizer05> it's a design goal to get evaluated for feasibility and cost/benefit ratio

10:56 <DocScrutinizer05> >> 14/12/2014 - Sonntag 23:31Bei FedEx Station eingetroffenKOELN DE<<

10:57 <DocScrutinizer05> funny enough: >> 15/12/2014 - Montag 01:01Abgeschickt von FedEx StationMEMPHIS, TN<<

10:57 <DocScrutinizer05> the parcel traveled back in time ;-)

10:59 <DocScrutinizer05> same with GMT/UTC timing:

10:59 <DocScrutinizer05> 15/12/2014 - Montag

10:59 <DocScrutinizer05> 07:01Abgeschickt von FedEx StationMEMPHIS, TN

10:59 <DocScrutinizer05> 05:31Bei FedEx Station eingetroffenKOELN DE

10:59 <DocScrutinizer05> 00:06Im TransitMEMPHIS, TN

11:00 <DocScrutinizer05> :-D

11:00 <DocScrutinizer05> fedex has a time machine. \o/

11:01 <DocScrutinizer05> I should ask them for sending the parcel two times around the globe and add massive time travel so it arrives at us in November

11:07 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: if only they didn't add a date change line

11:07 <kerio> :v

11:12 <bencoh> I can haz time machine on neo900 ?

11:14 <DocScrutinizer05> sidenote on "SMS via LTE" topic: usually well informed entities say >>Firmware version 2.1 will support GSM/UMTS voice and SMS. Samples are already available (and I assume documentation as well).<<

11:20 <DocScrutinizer05> http://irclog.whitequark.org/neo900/2014-12-11#11133970;

22:45 <DocScrutinizer05> the PoP chips got stuck in Koeln, might arrive tomorrow

22:50 <ds2> someone broken open the pack?

22:50 <ds2> broke

22:50 <DocScrutinizer05> why?

22:50 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wstaw.org/m/2014/12/15/plasma-desktopy11330.png

22:50 <ds2> you getting them premounted?

22:51 <DocScrutinizer05> huh?

22:52 <ds2> trying to figure out what you meant by PoP

22:52 <DocScrutinizer05> errr, Package on Package

22:53 <ds2> are you premounting the RAM with the DM3730 first?

22:53 <DocScrutinizer05> no

22:53 <ds2> oh... which part are you calling the PoP chip?

22:53 <ds2> DM3730?

22:54 <DocScrutinizer05> the one that goes on top of SoC

22:54 <ds2> ah the memory

22:56 <DocScrutinizer05> [2014-12-14 Sun 15:17:11] <astr> DocScrutinizer05, so err how's the 1gb ram chips problem?

22:56 <DocScrutinizer05> [2014-12-14 Sun 15:26:31] <DocScrutinizer05> we're getting evaluation samples tomorrow

22:56 <DocScrutinizer05> [2014-12-14 Sun 15:27:17] <DocScrutinizer05> actually a good bunch for evaluation: 70

22:57 <ds2> context helps :D

22:58 <DocScrutinizer05> [2014-12-15 Mon 11:59:31] <DocScrutinizer05> 07:01 Abgeschickt von FedEx Station MEMPHIS, TN

22:58 <DocScrutinizer05> [2014-12-15 Mon 11:59:31] <DocScrutinizer05> 05:31 Bei FedEx Station eingetroffen KOELN DE

22:59 <ds2> how are you planning to mount it?

22:59 <DocScrutinizer05> me? not at all. My soldering iron doesn't work for this stuff ;-)

23:01 <ds2> you could hot air it

23:01 <DocScrutinizer05> the lab we try to contract (boss is sick today so no chances) is pondering to use VP for soldering them, they are reluctant to use IR reflow. Unclear yet if the beagleboards will survive a second melt-down

23:02 <ds2> second melt down? are they baking the entire board?

23:02 <DocScrutinizer05> well, VP is pretty much non-local

23:02 <ds2> when I had that done, they use a spot heat to swap out the PoP stack

23:02 <DocScrutinizer05> see remark above

23:02 <ds2> *nod*

23:03 <ds2> I too was warned about doing it too many times on the same board

23:04 <DocScrutinizer05> PoP stack is obviously a bit on the nasty side for IR soldering

23:04 <DocScrutinizer05> hard to heat up the lower chip

23:05 <ds2> *nod* I think they used hotair

23:06 <ds2> but they had a dedicated rework station for BGAs

23:06 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe I should suggest to use pb solder and soak the gap between the two chips with Galden260 before applying IR

23:06 <DocScrutinizer05> the lab we contacted has as well

23:06 <ds2> thought you guys are not allowed to BUY Pb solder?

23:06 <DocScrutinizer05> meh, it's still available

23:07 <DocScrutinizer05> we're not allowed to SELL devices made with Pb solder

23:07 <ds2> but you can give them away?

23:07 <DocScrutinizer05> prolly not

23:08 <ds2> oh

23:08 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm seriously desinterested in RoHS for a two or three prototypes

23:08 <ds2> what about very low temp solder? stuff with cadium and indium in them? should cut down on PCB wear and tear

23:09 <DocScrutinizer05> hmmm Cd, yummy ;-P

23:09 <DocScrutinizer05> definizely more "green" than Pb

23:09 <DocScrutinizer05> I think Cd is really forbitten

23:10 <DocScrutinizer05> dang, forbidden*

23:10 <DocScrutinizer05> Pb is just not trade-able, except for R&D

23:11 <DocScrutinizer05> I still don'T have any Pb-free soldering wire here

23:13 <DocScrutinizer05> and while afaik NiCd batteries are completely outlawed, there are still megatons of Pb driving arounf on the streets in car batteries, even completely new ones

23:14 <DocScrutinizer05> TI literally prematurely discontinued the cellular modem option for Zoom-II since they couldn't comply with RoHS ;-P

23:15 <DocScrutinizer05> otherwise I maybe had gotten a Zoom-II and no N900

23:16 <DocScrutinizer05> not a single Zoom-II been sold with the announced cmt option populated :-P

23:16 <DocScrutinizer05> at least afaik

23:16 <DocScrutinizer05> they discontinued the cmt option before sales of Zoom-II started

23:17 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess they learned that the modules are not IR or convection reflow-able when using RoHS compliant solder paste

23:18 <DocScrutinizer05> our P*S8 soldered just fine, with 100% yield - on VP

23:18 <DocScrutinizer05> with RoHS compliant solder paste, afaik

23:19 <ds2> didn't think you had a choice. from the literature, it sounds like you guys need to have folks in a moonsuit come if more then 0.0000000001ppb of Pb is detected

23:19 <DocScrutinizer05> meh, no

23:20 <ds2> oh is THAT the official story on the Zoom II modem? :D he he he he

23:21 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, RoHS compliance is the official story why TI discontinued cmt option in Zoom-II

23:21 <ds2> "OK"

23:21 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't know any details though

23:21 <DocScrutinizer05> TI just wrote "discontinues due to RoHS" OWTTE

23:22 <ds2> what part number does the Zoom II use? 3630 or 3730?

23:22 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe the modem module isn't even available in RoHS, dunno

23:22 <DocScrutinizer05> err 3430?

23:22 <ds2> Oh thought they changed it between original Zoom and Zoom II

23:23 <DocScrutinizer05> not afaik

23:23 <DocScrutinizer05> I might be wrong

23:25 <DocScrutinizer05> when I seen the cmt discontinuation I thought "oh well, I can retrofit that by myself"... Then I learned that the SD card protrudes from case a 10mm or sth, and that's been the time where my desire for a zoom vanished to oblivion

23:26 <ds2> did anyone get the module to work?

23:26 <DocScrutinizer05> they used a mini or even fullsize SD card and then made it only halfway in case and half on the outside

23:27 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't know. Thanks to TI policy it's pretty hard to get details like schematics for the device unless you buy one. And without such details I wasn't tempted to contribute or hang out on the forum much

23:28 <DocScrutinizer05> and then around that time I got my N900