00:21 <Airwave> What is the main goal of the Neo900 project: To create a successor to the N900, or to create as free of a phone as possible?

00:21 <Airwave> I assume both of them are big goals, but does one take priority over the other?

00:23 <DocScrutinizer51> to be honest, the goal is to build my dream device, which is a symbiosis of both

00:24 <Airwave> That's fair.

00:25 <Airwave> I can get a new phone once every two years from work. It's been two years since I last got one (Galaxy S3). I'm not sure if I'll be able to use this to get work to pay for a Neo900, but I'm going to try.

00:26 <DocScrutinizer51> lucky coincidence allows to follow both goals without any major trade off

00:26 <Oksana> Hmm, can you sell work-phone to get money to pay for Neo900 ? Not sure if it would work...

00:27 <Oksana> Just as a back-up plan

00:27 <svetlana> Airwave: it's not as free phone as possible, since the guys are using proprietary drivers

00:27 <Airwave> Oksana: Yeah, I could do that, but I can't get much for a used Galaxy S3 with slight screen burn-in.

00:28 <svetlana> Airwave: but it's as open-source one as possible, if you prefer that :-)

00:28 <Airwave> svetlana: I prefer free.

00:28 <DocScrutinizer51> svetlana: huh?

00:28 <DocScrutinizer51> svetlana: we don't use any drivers at all

00:28 <Airwave> svetlana: But as free as possible given current hardware available, I mean.

00:29 <svetlana> probably the word is firmware, i don't remember

00:29 <svetlana> osmocosm has free things but they're engineered so poorly that they don't even have a tablet or anything that looks remotely useful for users

00:30 <svetlana> i mean maybe for 2000

00:30 <Oksana> Ask them for Neo900, if they refuse, ask for the most expensive new phone possible, and then sell new phone to get money for Neo900?

00:30 <DocScrutinizer51> svetlana: please note that Neo900 UG does not and can not provide any software, neither closed nor FOSS. It's up to community to use the software (and drivers) you want

00:30 <svetlana> yes, and there is no free firmware for some parts of neo900 is what I mean

00:31 <Oksana> svetlana: hardware-chips chosen are as free as possible, given that the device is not room-sized

00:31 <svetlana> yup

00:31 <DocScrutinizer51> so what does that say about openness of device? would it be a better device without those hardware parts?

00:32 <svetlana> you would ask Airwave about that :-) i have no opinion about assessing 'openness'

00:32 <Oksana> Nay, I am aiming for utility, not for futility

00:32 <DocScrutinizer51> the device is as open as possible

00:33 <DocScrutinizer51> as possible to *us*

00:33 <DocScrutinizer51> sure TI could build an even more open device

00:33 <DocScrutinizer51> but we can't

00:33 <Airwave> Oksana: The phone isn't "mine" until I've had it for two years, so if I sold the phone they bought me that would be stealing.

00:35 <Oksana> Okay...

00:35 <Airwave> DocScrutinizer51: It's always tough to find a compromise. Given a the choice between two parts, one requiring non-free software but slightly more functional, I would go for the free, but less functional one.

00:36 <Airwave> If there is a significant gap in functionality, the choice is more difficult.

00:37 <Airwave> But if the choice is e.g. between a Wi-Fi chip requiring some non-free firmware and no Wi-Fi chip at all, I believe including one is better, as long as the user is made aware of the issue.

00:37 <DocScrutinizer51> Airwave: so far we had no need for doing such decision

00:37 <Airwave> That's good.

00:37 <Oksana> Depends on definition of functionality. Between 'closed and pre-programmed' and 'open and requiring somebody to program it', open is better even if somebody would claim it to be not-functional. Like it's with NFC chip, if I remember correctly

00:37 <DocScrutinizer51> it always been the latter cas

00:39 <Oksana> :-D How is it going with prototypes?

00:40 <DocScrutinizer51> for NFC we had a chip widely used in android devices but with closed firmware and no docs at all and poor availability in small quantities. Or @well documented simple chip (no firmware at all) and we use the latter plus our own MCU for the intelligence

00:41 <Oksana> Yes, wpwrak did some coding for it, right?

00:41 <DocScrutinizer51> Oksana: PP almost killed yhr project and me personally, right now the project is on hold and I'm on sick-leave to recover

00:42 <DocScrutinizer51> s/yhr/the/

00:42 <Oksana> Okay, just poke me when the deadline for PayPal-release-funds happens. Would be nice to hear news

00:46 <wpwrak> Oksana: no coding for the NFC chip. but that's something best left for when we have actual hardware. the MCU that goes with it (so that the OMAP doesn't have to do all that micromanagement) is one i'm quite familiar with, so that part should be fun and easy :)

00:48 <wpwrak> Oksana: according to what PP replied to some supporters, such a deadline may already have happened. but we'll only find out about that when Joerg returns home and can check things. i don't really know what to expect.

00:51 <wpwrak> Oksana: (according to what PP replied) one was apparently told that the reserve was only for 21 days. not sure what to make of this either. could mean that PP are confused or that support just makes up things on the spot. but it could also mean that they recently changed the duration. again, we'll see in 1.5 weeks :)

00:59 <Oksana> Okay :-) Just in time for winter celebrations ;-)

01:01 <wpwrak> might be a nice early christmas present, yes :)

12:39 <DocScrutinizer51> 21 days sound about right for the time they completely froze the account. This period ended by PP establishing the 200k USD general reserve

12:41 <wpwrak> hmm, it's not what the mail said, but, also given that the communication with PP was by telephone and there may thus be errors in interpretation, that's also a possibility.

12:42 <wpwrak> anyway, we'll just have to wait until you're back to read your mails. you have to endure only 10 more days of vacation ;-)

13:58 <Oksanaa> Thank you for recommendation of tangerine dream! Listening to Tyger is like greeting an old friend

17:34 <remko> any news on the paypal fraud?

17:34 <remko> got a reply from them saying you should contact them... -.-

17:54 <wpwrak> remko: so far, i have no news. but maybe they sent something to joerg (and not contact@neo900.org), in which case we won't know until he's back from his vacations

23:08 <DocScrutinizer51> ~wb

23:08 <infobot> It's great to be back!